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Author Topic: So, what about veggie oil????  (Read 6394 times)

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Offline stumpy

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So, what about veggie oil????
« on: November 21, 2007, 07:46:45 AM »
Is anyone out there making bio diesel out of used veggie oil?  I've read alot about how it's the best thing going, but I'd like to learn more about the negatives of burning it in my Dodge Cummins diesel truck.
Woodmizer LT30, NHL785 skidsteer, IH 444 tractor

Offline farmerdoug

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2007, 09:40:06 AM »
stumpy,

Here is one link.  Try using the search function also.  It has been discussed often here.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=20067.0
Doug
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2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2007, 01:45:26 PM »
Stumpy,
I have been making my own bio diesel for about a year now.  It will run fine in your Cummins during the summer but the high gel point makes it a harder fuel to run in the winter.  I blend petro diesel with my bio diesel when the temps start dropping.  Like now.  ;)
The feedstock you use will impact the gel point substantially.  Pure canola is one of the better ones, soy is ok, avoid palm and cottonseed except for summer fuel.
You can make your own processor with a hot water heater or buy a 95% automated unit like the BioPro series.  Payback depends on what you use and how you value your time.
I built my first system - there are pics in my user gallery.  I just took it apart this weekend to reclaim the room for wood storage.  The appleseed (hot water heater) system has been replced with a BioPro 190.  My costs including electricity and capital comes out to $1.99 per gallon.  Diesel is currently $3.50 per gallon here.  The math is fairly straight forward.
I do save money and time but the real reason I got into bio diesel is deeper than that.

Check out http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve
          and http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/

If you have any qwuestions let me know and I will see if I can answer them for you.
To date I have brewed over 1600 gallons of fuel.  I use it in my 2005 F350 PowerStroke (6.0), JD670 tractor, JD450C Crawler/loader and to fire an outdoor boiler.
One With Wood
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Offline Dana

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2008, 06:47:29 AM »
I have been getting the page cannot be displayed notice for Onewithwoods iibiodieselinfopop site can a few of you check it out and see if it works for you. If so what is wrong on my end? http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

Offline Norm

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2008, 06:59:30 AM »
I just tried the link in your post Dana and it loaded fine. Not sure why it's not working for you.

Offline Dana

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2008, 07:05:47 AM »
I updated Spybot search and destroy and things have been odd since then. I uninstalled it just this morning in hopes that would take care of it but it must still be there as I receive a privacy report on the tool bar when yahoo members have posted. I haven't had a problem with any other websites. Sorry for the thread hijack. :)
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2008, 07:45:36 AM »

 Link worked for me, also.  8)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline Dana

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2008, 11:57:02 AM »
Link problem solved. I had set up to block cookies so they were blocking me. ::)
Thanks Norm and Harold.
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

Offline clousert

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2008, 02:46:00 PM »
I've made biodiesel for about 2 years now ---- I'm sure I'm over 1000 gallons produced.  I run it in farm tractors, and soon on my new bandsaw that we are building.... we are using a diesel motor on it.
Like "OneWithWood" said, bio-D has a high gel point, and I usually start diluting it once we hit 50 degrees F.  I prefer to use kerosene instead of diesel fuel, because today's diesel isn't anything to brag about with gel points.
My fuel cost is about $1.10 per gallon for ingredients.

Some nice things about biodiesel that you don't get with ethanol:  biodiesel has a high yield; 5 gallons of oil will yield about 5 gallons of fuel;  biodiesel will run in the engine with the settings just as they are right now -- no engine modifications; biodiesel will mix in any ratio with petro diesel, and it will stay mixed.  No need to clean out fuel tanks when changing fuels.  Run either, both, or any ratio.

I talk about it more on my website.


Tom Clouser, farmer and sawmill operator in Pennsylvania, partner of CLOUSER FARM ENTERPRISES

Offline ohsoloco

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2008, 12:29:07 PM »
Tom, you must be Tim's brother.  He milled some lumber for me years back before I bought my bandmill  :)  Did you build your own system for making the biodiesel?  I'd love to see exactly how it's made sometime.  I can read about it all day, but there's nothing like actually seeing it done. 

Offline clousert

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2008, 01:58:26 PM »
Yes, Tim Clouser is my brother.
Sure, you can take a look.  It's really junked up with clutter and everything, but you can get the idea of what we're doing.
Tom Clouser, farmer and sawmill operator in Pennsylvania, partner of CLOUSER FARM ENTERPRISES

Offline zopi

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2008, 09:54:05 PM »
Where do you guys source your oil from? I'm not too keen on dragging around and gathering up used fryer oil...whatta mess.

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Offline clousert

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2008, 11:01:06 PM »
It is very messy.  Restaurants, bars, etc.  I'm usually plastered in cow manure, grease, and other filth, so I just add this to the list.  It stinks, and is tough to deal with.  I have had an idea for a long time, to build a vacuum tank.  Not too tough, I just don't have time.  Put a tank together with a vacuum pump, and suck out the top of the tank, and draw oil in with a hose.  Lots of little problems like power plant on my truck, etc. so it gets some money tied up.  Suction line needs to be about 2 inch flex.

Oil is hard to get in the winter without a shovel <<grin>>
Tom Clouser, farmer and sawmill operator in Pennsylvania, partner of CLOUSER FARM ENTERPRISES

Offline ohsoloco

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2008, 08:20:07 AM »
Junked up with clutter, huh?  Sounds like my place  :D  My biggest problem would be my lack of a separate building to do something like that in.  My 10x20 shed is full of stuff  ;D  and there's no way I'd do it in my basement/woodshop.  Maybe when the weather gets nicer I'll give you a holler Tom.

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2008, 12:31:21 PM »
I collect weekly from five different establishments.  I collect on my way to work so I am wearing nice clothes and dress shoes.  Three of the restraunts put the used oil back in the cubies it came in.  At the donut kitchen I use their filter pump to pump the oil into a 55 gal drum in the back of my truck.  One restraunt requested I provide a 55 gal barrel for them to empty their oil into so I made a vacuum sucker to suck the oil out of that barrel.  I have never had more than an occasional drop in the truck bed, never got it on me.  All in all it takes about five minutes per stop and there is never any mess.  I quess it is all in how you approach it.  :)
One With Wood
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Offline clousert

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2008, 03:51:39 PM »
I figured a vacuum tank to be the way to go, but no experience with it in oil.  What size suction hose do you need to move oil efficiently?

Some of my pick up points have it in 5 gallon containers, and that is nice.  2 places I dip the oil out of barrels with a bucket, and carry it to a barrel on the back of my pickup.  Alot of dripping, alot of up and down.  I hate that part.

Tom Clouser, farmer and sawmill operator in Pennsylvania, partner of CLOUSER FARM ENTERPRISES

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2008, 11:00:29 AM »
I use a 1" pvc wand attached to a 1" hose. The hose is the kind used in pool filtration systems.  It gets stiff in the winter but still works.

I can only suck about half the volume in the winter per trip due to the viscosity of the oil.
One With Wood
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Offline StorminN

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2008, 09:50:28 PM »
I've used a 2" suction hose (hard green type they sell for trash pumps at the box stores) and a Gast vacuum pump on the tank... bring it up (or I guess down?) to 28"Hg and let her rip. I crushed a couple of tanks in my impatience before I switched to a propane tank. A septic tank / Honey Bucket pumper where the end opened up so you could clean it out would be the ideal unit. Vane vacuum pumps seem to work well, you can get something from Surplus Center that will work, the trick is most of them are AC motors and you need to power it somehow. I've thought about rigging one up like an A/C compressor on my truck, with an electric clutch so just flip a switch to turn it on, but haven't done it yet. It's definitely harder going in the winter, depending on the feedstock... it seems the hydrogenated oil is worse. Has anyone out there actually built a heated nose for their suction hose? I've thought about it a bit, but haven't gone there yet, either.

I've actually been out of the loop on the bio / greasel thing for a year and a half or more, but I've still been collecting occasionally from the folks that put it back in the plastic totes for me.

Also... is anyone out there burning straight vegetable oil (SVO or WVO) in their rigs or oil-fired boilers? I have a friend in Maine that converted his Mercedes 240D so it now has dual tanks, one of which is SVO with a heat exchanger (copper tube) in the tank and tank temp gauge... he used 2-tank splitter valve out of an F-250 and said his total cost, doing it himself was under $250. He has a buddy with a lift and said that was a great help. I'm looking to do this to my diesel Suburban and diesel van this spring / summer...

-Norm.
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2008, 05:59:38 AM »
I've got a question for those that are picking up WVO...

I have a local restaraunt veggie oil source that has a pipe with a quick disconnect fitting on it outside of the restaraunt.  The QD is a standard 2" type similar to what is used on trash pumps.

I have a gasoline powered 2" trash pump, and I'm wondering if I can use it to pump the oil into my collection tank (280 gallon plastic tank inside a metal frame).  The restaraunt stores their used oil inside the building in a 1000 gallon tank, so viscosity should not be a problem in the winter.

Thoughts?

Scott
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Offline clousert

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Re: So, what about veggie oil????
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2008, 03:14:49 PM »
Make sure their is a line shut off close to your hookup..... it will keep oozing after you disconnect.  Trash pump should work ok, I've pumped oil with a swimming pool pump, as long as it was warm enough, 70 degrees or so.

To StorminN:  I burned straight veggie oil in my tractors for the first year.  Actually, I cut it with 10% kero, 5% gasoline, and about 1 pint of naptha in 20 gallons of mix.  It ran the engines fine, but I'd plug filters after every 100 gallons.  Slime on the filters.

After 100 hours of run time, one of my 90 hp tractors bent a pushrod, and I got scared and set up to do the whole conversion.  When we took the engine apart, it was pretty gooey in there, and the guy helping me said that the veg. oil stickiness was maybe causing the rods to "hang up".

I know that my engines oozed a bit, at the fuel pump and on the block, and that went away when I did the tranesterification.  What I learned from the experience is that in the short term, for an engine you don't care about, just run regular oil, and maybe cut it with some gasoline to bring the viscosity down and help with the ignition point of the fuel.  In the long term, for engines you care about, don't do it.

Tom Clouser, farmer and sawmill operator in Pennsylvania, partner of CLOUSER FARM ENTERPRISES


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