Ethanol fact or fiction question?

[Andyshine77]

Nice post Samurai. People that haven't worked on a lot of ope the passed 20 years, simply don't see things as we do.

[SwampDonkey]

I know the Quebec government tried the ethanol thing a few years ago. They pulled the plug on it because they found it wasn't such a 'green' idea and a pretty big sink hole for subsidies. There was also a small company here called Eco something or other. I see the place has been up for sale for several months now. Obviously no money there either except what the government gave them. Oh, well. They get nice $60,000 pickups to drive around in I guess. :

[ZeroJunk]

Nice post Samurai. People that haven't worked on a lot of ope the passed 20 years, simply don't see things as we do.

Actually we also worked it the 20 years before as well and saw a lot of the same problems. Or, do you think pre ethanol everything worked just dandy forever.

At any rate, if it is as bad as some think it is good for business.

[Ozark Cheapskate Logger]

Anyone who thinks ethanol in their gas is helping matters, obviously has zero independent thought. I'm furious at those in my own political party that voted for this issue. If you would like to make corn whiskey add caramel color and bottle it, don't put it in my gas tank.

[jwilly3879]

It is interesting that the government is pushing for E15 to reduce our dependence on foreign oil when in fact it is now the #1 export of the US. Agribusiness needs more profit so the more corn they produce for ethanol the larger the tax subsidies they will receive and the oil companies can export more oil. With the US dollar dropping in value in the global market oil maybe the next currency for the US overseas.

[beenthere]

We burn the same gallons of gas to go a 1000 miles, regardless if they add more ethanol or not.
So we are not saving a bit of gas by adding ethanol, just get poorer fuel mileage.
It is all designed to support the price of corn, which with the bumper crop of corn to be expected this year, corn prices are predicted to be low again.
Some reports have been that ethanol production had maxed out... just couldn't use any more than we produce now so that meant no more corn demand to help the extra corn yield and corn prices.
BUT, the EPA is going to require more ethanol to be added to our gas, so that will up the demand for ethanol, and increase the price of corn.
Government control and handling at its very best.

[Stroover]

I heard last night from a Husqvarna guy that you should mix half regular gas with half premium gas, and add your mix oil. That way, you end up with only 5% ethanol in your gas, as opposed to 10%. Thoughts?

[OlJarhead]

Premium only has a higher octane rating which is ONLY useful in high compression engines (otherwise you are wasting your money).

I guess I don't run my saw enough though I use it nearly every time I am at my cabin or running my mill.  I burn regular gas (which most often contains ethanol) and in 4+ years have had no issue with my saw.  I also store gas at home with Stabil and use it later (1-2 years later) with no issue.

yes I'm sure the ethanol doesn't help but if it hasn't burned up a saw in over 4 years then I'm not worried.  I also have an older saw (maybe 10 years) which I've not used much in the last 3 years, took it in to have a missing screw replaced and it fired right up and ran like a champ -- and I had left it with fuel in it.

I'm not saying leave fuel in your saw etc I'm just saying I think people worry more than they need to sometimes.

[goose63]

I am with OLJhead on this i haven't had any trouble with my saws yet

[ehp]

ethanol is a problem period but its a part of our life so just deal with it , I have played alot with ethanol is every % out there from 10% to 100 % ethanol , First thing is if the fuel is storage in a dark dry place it will stay pretty good , the sun light kills the fuel in a short amount of time , the closer to 100% ethanol the shorter the fuel will last in sun light , next  most 2 stroke oils will mix with 10% ethanol fuel but as soon as you hit 15% ethanol some of those oils break down and will not mix in that much ethanol, there are oils that will mix with any % of ethanol thou but cost more money . the more % of ethanol in your fuel the more 2 stroke oil you should run as ethanol is harder on crank bearing and rod bearings , in 100% ethanol I use 16-1 for a oil mixture and no problems , 32-1 will give you problems very fast at that amount of ethanol. Next, the higher the amount of ethanol you have to richen the crab up to stay in tune or you will be way to lean and it will damage the engine if ran long enough so with that said if you set a saw up that has been running high test fuel that is 10% ethanol and you go to shell gold that is non ethanol the saw will run richer on the gold fuel . I myself run the 10% ethanol high test pump fuel in all my autotune motors , ported or not ported and like how they run better than the non ethanol fuel . I could go on and on but I'm not going to, the facts are ethanol is harder on a motor , fuel lines, carb boots anything it comes in contact with but its in pretty much all the fuel today , does ethanol hurt engine power , if tuned proper ethanol produces more power than gas but you will burn quite abit more fuel to make that power , The lower the grade off fuel the more ethanol is in it so the low test will have the highest amount of ethanol now that doesnot mean the high test will have less but it should not have a higher % of ethanol in it , BUT if you think you are getting more ethanol than what is to be then check your gas for it , we did a test on gas stations around here years back and found as high as 28% ethanol and the reason for looking was all 2 stroke shops were having way to many motors blow up and the to much of ethanol was the problem

[beenthere]

I look for many more years than 4 out of my chainsaws.  ;D
My "new" MS361 is 10 years old now, and the 041 is 39 and running.

And have been lucky so far to be able to purchase non-ethanol gas.

It (ethanol) is a political hot potato, touted to be saving us regular gasoline and helping support the corn prices. Cars burn the same gallons of regular gas whether or not they add ethanol so there is no savings of gallons of gas there.
The corn prices are back down now as there is no demand for additional volume of ethanol (maxed out) so the solution to bolster the corn prices is to raise the % of ethanol higher than 10%.  So we get shoved further in the hole. 

[John Mc]

Ethanol can be a problem, but the biggest problem is people just not taking care of their saws properly.  Use fresh fuel, regardless of whether it has ethanol or not (the shelf life of ethanol/gas blends is less). Yes, you can probably get away with old fuel, and may not run into a problem (I know I've done it in the past), but why push your luck?

As far as mixing premium and regular gas:  In SOME areas of the country, you can get non-ethanol premium fuel. Around here, it's only the premium that is available as non-ethanol, and you have to search for a station that carries it (a few gas stations have it, and most marinas do).  I use non-ethanol premium because I can get it without much hassle. A couple of years ago, when that was not available in my area, I used premium or mid grade with ethanol in it. I had no problems, but made sure I turned the fuel over quickly.  If it got old, it got dumped in my lawnmower or car.

Personally, I would not bother with mixing two kinds of fuel. If I have non-ethanol available at the pump, I use it. If not, I use the E10 gas.  I don't buy the caned pre-mix fuel - way too expensive. I could see it might be worth it for someone who does not use their saw regularly, and was concerned they might leave the fuel in the saw for an extended period -- that stuff has some very good shelf life.  (I might buy a can or two if it got me the extended warranty with a new saw purchase that some companies are offering, but when it's used up, it would be back to pump gas for me.)

[Hitchcock Woods]

We only run non-ethanol 93 octane in our 2 strokes.  Running ethanol here and there wont be that big of a problem but it can break down fuel lines, seals, carbs etc...
It is more expensive (~$20 for 5 gallons here compared to about $18 for 10% ethanol 87 octane), but worth it in my opinion.

[John Mc]

It costs about 10 or 12% extra to get non-ethanol premium (91 or 93 octane?) over the price of E10 87 Octane around here (not that I'd run 87 octane in my saws).  I've not compared it to the cost of mid grade or premium E10 gas, but my impression is it's fairly close to the price of premium E10.

For that little a difference, and the fact that I regularly pass by a stations selling E0 gas, it's worth it to me to use that in my saws and other small engines.

[SwampDonkey]

I use mid grade here in small engines as the refinery said ethanol is only in regular gas. And some brands here like Utramar, have none  in their gas at all. The prices per litre for each grade here in NB is the same no matter who you buy it from. It's a regulated price and there is no provision in that pricing for ethanol, only the grade or whether it's full service.

If there is, here show me, it's the regulated price list. :D

http://www.nbeub.ca/images/documents/petroleum_pricing/currentmaximumpriceenglish.pdf

Who benefits from ethanol? I don't.   :D

[beenthere]

Have no explanation for Canada's regulations.  ;D

[SwampDonkey]

Who was it that said "You can get all kinds of answers, you just have to ask the right questions." :D

[Al_Smith]

 :D This gasoline business is almost as much fun as the oil wars .I've heard of anything from Av gas to little special bottles you buy at the Stihl dealers for"homeowners " I guess renters can just use regular gas then ? Whatever floats your boat .

As far as non moonshine laced gas I did run into some last week .About 40 miles from where you take I 76 into Denver in of all places Nebraska .Purely by accident .In a ten island gas station I just happened to pull in the wrong island .Not paying attention I had almost ten dollars pumped in until I looked at the price 3.89 a gallon  .Shut it off at ten .The normal in Nebraska and western Iowa had been 3.19, about 20 cents cheaper than Ohio .

[trooperTdiesel]

when condensation separates the gas from the ethanol, theres no oil mix in the water contaminated ethanol it's only in the gas.

or if you are running the saw in a wet climate that can get some water in the gas tank.

also when phase separation happens 87 octane will turn in to about 84+/- somthing octane...
the OE requirement for any 2 stroke ive seen is 89 or higher octane.

a worst case condensation test to show how fast it can happen in the right conditions 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeCyFxoWPpo

[John Mc]

Nice video.  one thing he doesn't point out is that it's not just water in the bottom of the jar, it's a combination of water and ethanol which is corrosive.

[Ford_man]

The last time I got 2 gal of Premium gas with no ethanol when I had it checked it had 5% , I Didn't think about the Regular gas with ethanol that was in the hose. Next time I will put 2 gal in the truck then fill my gas can.
I have 3 Stihl saws , 0-41 /260/362 Had to replace the carb in the 260which is 4 yrs old, the 0-41 was bought new in 1974 and has never had any thing done to it. I used the same gas in all my saws. Yes I was told the carb problem was caused by ethanol .