Working on a building.

[711ac]

Broke ground today on my 37x40 home for my mill. 
I'm doing a strange foundation as I don't want to put wood in the dirt anymore (pole building) and don't want to pay for pt lumber either. I'm digging a 3'+ ditch, putting in a foot of crushed stone then dropping in those big concrete blocks (2x2x6) that will end up flush with the grade.  


Pretty cheap, this load of 20 was $1245 delivered to my yard. 


 

Once all the blocks are in, I'll be forming and pouring a 12" "cap" to level everything up and wet dip the brackets in the concrete at the posts location's. 

[farmfromkansas]

You might check out the hardware Menards is selling to mount your posts to a concrete pier.  

[Don P]

That looks like a neat idea, I hope you'll post what you think as it goes forward. If you screw scraps across the forms and screw the brackets to those it'll make for accurate alignment and less thinking that has to go on in the heat of the moment during the pour.

[Southside]

Are you going to anchor the cap to the blocks?

[711ac]

Are you going to anchor the cap to the blocks?

Nothing more than drilling some holes for rebar for connecting them. I'll use hydraulic cement for the pins into the blocks. I'm planning on 4 bars in the cap along the length and am thinking about tieing my post brackets to that before pouring over "dipping" them in at the pour. I'll follow up through out the build. 

[711ac]

<br
Yea! Ground water. 💥

[Southside]

Ugg - the blocks going to be below the frost line?

[711ac]

The stone bed under the blocks will be near frost level. I dug a ditch for drain tile to daylight yesterday after hitting the water, and believe that it's a seasonal thing. I thought that this was a possibility and it would eventually need to be handled. 
My buddy that's a local native and familiar with foundations and the local soils said that moving groundwater won't freeze and simply tiling  it  would be fine. It'll stay open till Monday and I'll grab some drain tile and get back to it. 

[Mike W]

Simple as Don P mentioned, set your brackets ahead of time, one less stress point during the pour and finish.  We use the 6x6 standoff anchors for a lot of garage and pole buildings we erect, don't like setting posts in the ground, pressure treated or not.  Pic is before the slab reinforcing and footing reinforcing were put in place, but gives you the idea.  a 1" block under the carrier keeps the 1" standoff plate just the right height, easy to remove once the mud is set a bit and finishing can be completed easily around them.  The tape is to keep the mud out of the screw heads so the cleats can get removed quickly without having to dig out the sand/cement that would make it a hassle during the pour/finishing

Cheers

 

 

[711ac]

I've got a layer of coarse sand that waters traveling through. 

 
Gotta get more pipe!
I am halfway done with the blocks but this water is a necessary diversion. 

[711ac]

Ground water is handled after about 160' of ditching and pipe. We had 1.75" of rain during this process that added to the fun.
All the blocks are set and back filled and I have the materials 
(#4 bar and form lumber) to complete the "foundation" to the point of calling for concrete. 
 Supposed to get rainy mid week and I'll work on my post and brackets that I'm fabricating. 

<br
At the shovel, the water breaks away from the camera to the woods. This side travels towards the camera to the woods about 100' behind. 

[Crossroads]

I like it and may end up doing something similar in a few months. 

[jpassardi]

Understandably the building is for a sawmill so some movement and cracking isn't going to be a deal breaker. Drywall cracking due to deflection obviously isn't a concern.
Just bear in mind that the slab which I assume will also cap the blocks will move with frost. If the posts are supported by the slab (not directly by the blocks), the slab will want to heave away from the blocks but likely will crack instead, more so with a large snow load. With the building unheated, the portion of the slab inside of the blocks will be unprotected - the water in the soil will freeze sooner than below the blocks.
I suggest cutting a good amount of control joints in the slab as it will crack. As you likely know, most slabs will crack due to the initial curing shrinkage alone. Rebar will help prevent shifting at the cracks.
Definitely an improvement over working in the mud and out in the elements!

[711ac]

I'm not pouring a slab, it will be  crushed stone. A day on concrete is tough on me. I may regret it come clean up time, but that can be added later if I choose to. This "cap" is only to tie the blocks together, provide a little more distance from the grade to wood, and allow me to place my post anchoring into it (wet dip) vs. drilling and expanding wedge bolts. It also will level everything out, those blocks are somewhat inconsistent and difficult to place perfectly @ about 3600# each-by myself. 
I'm making my own brackets, similar to the ones offered by "perma-column" except their 2' high for bolting and I need 25 of them!

[jpassardi]

Ahh...the use of block makes sense the way you're doing it then.
If you were pouring a slab it would be cheaper to just haunch the pour down at the perimeter.
I know what you mean, I used those blocks to make a retaining wall to support my small barn.
You may want to use processed gravel for the floor so you can clean the sawdust off, 3/4 stone would let the sawdust fill the voids.

[711ac]

Yes, the gravel will have the "fines" in it to lock it together. A friend has a decent plate compactor that I'll run across it.

[711ac]

 

I got started on the post brackets yesterday. Rainy, good shop weather.

 

[farmfromkansas]

Not sure I understand completely how you are holding your anchors down, but they do make an epoxy to glue your rebar into a hole in concrete.  They say they hold as well as a anchor bolt that is placed in poured concrete.

[711ac]

I'll be pouring a 12" thick "cap" on the heavy buried blocks, then pushing the brackets into the wet concrete. 
I finished welding all of them yesterday and got them partially painted. 

[BUGGUTZ]

You might consider putting a slight bend or an L in your bar, so its not a straight peg in the slab.

I like the use of bin blocks for a foundation.

[711ac]

Got a start on forming the cap today. The building is almost square, but 3 of the walls will have pretty big openings for access. This creates 3 sections to form for the cap. The north wall has no openings and is the longest continuous form, 41' with a 9'6" corner at each end. 


 
that wood inside the form is just temporary to keep the sides square. Once I cut some stakes I'll brace it up from the outside and remove them. Right now the forms are just sitting on the blocks and once they're all built I'll string line and stake it down.

[Crossroads]

Looking good!

[711ac]

2nd coat of galvanized (silver trailer roof paint)😆
The rebar end gets pushed into the wet cement cap. 1 every 4'. I
It'll make sense later. 


 

[711ac]

Form work :embarassed:. Not really that bad, just a lot slower than I thought it would be. This back wall pictured earlier was easy, then I realized that I need to form in a space for the future rolling doors to open IN to if I don't want a 6" gap between the door and the ground. 
I'm happy that I "caught" this now.

 

 

[Walnut Beast]

Better to do it right than cut corners especially if you had a blowout you would really be cursing 🤬 

[Resonator]

When I formed up the outer ring foundation for my new garage/workshop, I fabricated steel braces to go across the tops of the form boards. These I made from 3/8" bar stock welded to cutoffs of 1 3/4" angle iron with screw holes to attach to the forms. These held the inner and outer form parallel and straight, and lessened the need for stakes. After the concrete had firmed up some, I unscrewed them and finish troweled the surface and rounded over the edge for the garage doorway.
 

 

[711ac]

I have 5 of those big blocks left over and they are working well to brace the forms to. I've had blowouts before in what little form - concrete I've done, but it was a much different situation. My concrete contractor buddy stopped by yesterday a said with a few simple things that the forms are good to pour. I'm starting with my rebar.

 

 

[711ac]

Hit a milestone today with the concrete poured and the post bases set.

 

 

[samandothers]

That's a bunch of bases! 

Looking good!

[JRWoodchuck]

I like the chamfered corner detail!

[tmbrcruiser]

Congratulations on getting the mill building up. Looking forward to seeing dust on the floor. Good job!

[711ac]

I like the chamfered corner detail!

That will be above grade. I pictured myself having the inevitable "oops" resulting in a damaged wall AND a ruined sidewall on a fairly expensive tire.😫

[711ac]

For not being a form carpenter, I'm happy with this pour.

 

 

[Tom King]

Looks great!!!

[tmbrcruiser]

Looks great, please keep the pictures coming. The ground doesn't freeze very deep in Delaware. So your foundation is very interesting and clever.

[Bruno of NH]

Very nice work

[711ac]

Since it's finally raining (thankfully) and I'm still cleaning up the form wood with nothing big to show, more pictures. I enjoy them on other threads and they help explain better than words. 
<br
These will be the roof structure, 37'4". I scrounged these 11 "bar joists" pieces 8 or so years ago for around $400. I am not familiar with steel construction and it took a while to come up with a plan or a cheap plan.
This is why there's so many posts, each individual joist will sit on a post. Every pair of posts will be taller than the lower post up until the peak, then work it's way back down to the eave. 


 
Then I ran into this pile of 8x8 posts, for free, stickered, in a building with a concrete floor. 👍 they are over 20' long and he delivered them. It costs me a days time helping him clean up and organize this 50x100 quansit building, he just wanted them gone. This was through another forum, not sawmill related. I'll have to "tune up" some of these as you can see the twist, but that's the next step. The shorter posts will be somewhere around 10' with the longest 17' at least according to my sketches, I have the basic design but I'm prone to changes when it becomes something real that I can actually see. I'd like a minimum 10' clearance for my various equipment to enter. There will be an opening on each wave end, almost 19' wide. I've formed in a void in the concrete to accept rolling doors sometime in the future along with another 18' opening in what will be the gable end - the longer dimension. I've yet designed the truss or beam that's required for this, iirc I've got 3 or 4 joists to support. The math for load calculations scrambles my brain.

[711ac]

 <br
 

 

 


Sorry for the sideways pictures 

[711ac]

This should help, just finished getting all the form wood and bracing out of there. 

 

 

[btulloh]

I'm enjoying your build and your pictures but I'm getting a crick in my neck.    Just a little hint that might help: when inserting pictures from your gallery there's a ROTATE button right there that makes it easy to fix your pic orientation just before you insert it. No big deal, but thought you'd like to know. We all had to go through a little learning process on this, so no worries. 

Looking forward to following your build to the finish line. 

[Les Staley]

Nice job on the building!,  I'm jelly...

I am now an expert on rotating photos.  Go into your gallery, click on the photo,  at the bottom of the photo there will be an icon +90.   Click on that and "save photo".  Should work

[711ac]

Sorry about your neck, I just corrected my photos and thank you! 👍
The finish line hopefully is before next winter, I don't want to set the bar too high and I slow down terribly much above 75-80 😫

 

  

[btulloh]

Thanks!  And thanks to new member Les Staley who cleaned up my mistakes on the name of the button and elaborating on the procedure. 

I'm waiting to see how those trusses work out. Nice find there. I couldn't quite form the picture of the roof profile from the description, but it sounds like it will be nice and very functional. 

[711ac]

If you look at the top picture you'll see the back wall, it's solid with no break in the footer. The bar joists will sit on progressively taller posts until the middle (peak or ridge), then get shorter down to the eave level, equal on both sides. I need to design the truss or beam to carry 3 of the joists above the front opening.
The bottom pic is the opposite or front wall and the door opening is clear, in the middle. 

[711ac]

I don't really know what I was thinking when I was pondering a smaller building. 


 

 

 
I have many measuring "tools", but it's always a slight surprise to see it other than lines on a paper. This should work fine for me.

[VB-Milling]

Looking fantastic.  The ingenuity and resourcefulness on the foundation work and the salvaged timber and roof trusses is awesome!  Looking forward to seeing it go vertical.

Good thing you fabbed up those steel post bases yourself...I can only imagine what Simpson would charge for something so stout and large!

[711ac]

" Resourcefulness" thank you! 
I'm just a cheap SOB. 😆

[711ac]

Well re sawing the twist out of my free timbers is working out well. Being inexperienced I was worried that there was something that I hadn't thought of, and would end up having too small of post to fit properly in my bases. 

 

 

 

 
The shortest posts are 10' and I needed 8, I took the 20' timbers with the worst twist and cut them in half, then cut them to dimension. 
They were all originally cut at 8x8, I'm re sawing them to 6 7/8 × 7 1/2. 

[Anderson]

Really love seeing your progress!
Thank you for keeping us up to date with pictures.

Keep up the good work! 8)

[711ac]

We're having a heat spell, that shuts me down. Just no patience for it anymore  (now that I don't HAVE to) 
I'm a few timbers away from having them cut, but I'd trade a month of 20* for a day over 80*.
My little building site is of course in the wide open sun.
Crying session is done. 😆

[711ac]

Finally got started on the fun part. 

 

 

 

[thecfarm]

At least you have the right tool for the job. 

[mike_belben]

Heck yeah.  Beats luggin em on a ladder.

[711ac]

So far so good. The post are much easier to set than I expected working alone. 

 



I punched the holes for the screws and a smaller set of holes for the pole barn nails in the brackets. It really works out well simply hanging the post from the excavator with a set of tongs, get it close and work it into the bracket by hand, then a short pipe clamp holds it enough to level it and keep it there while it fasten it. 

[mike_belben]

Slick system youve got there.

[711ac]

Thanks Mike, it's definitely a Johnny Cash-one piece at a time designed around the scrounged materials on hand building. 
"run what you brung" right 😆

[jpassardi]

The building is looking good.

Is that an amulet thumb? How well do those psuedo-mechanical thumbs work?

I have a large mechanical on my Excavator and a hydraulic on my backhoe. I built both of them, the hydraulic is quite an advantage.

[711ac]

Yes on the Amulet thumb. I put it on soon after I bought the machine. Being a "gray market" machine I assumed that the proper valves and piping would be an expensive wild goose chase but this was probably 20 years ago and since then I've never had a problem getting parts from JD-Nortrax. At worst, next day for a few seals.
I'd prefer a hyd thumb but I have no complaints about the Amulet. The main reason is there's a fixed distance away from the machine that the tips of the bucket and thumb are both on the ground just like a rigid thumb, but this only matters with smaller rocks, sticks, etc.


 
The posts are set on the back half now. Just 7 left on the front half but there's a 18' opening that I need to build a header/truss kinda thing.

[711ac]

Still working on it, the high visual progress part is over, especially with a one man crew😆


 
I got the end wall posts trimmed and a top plate on and the diagonal bracing done. Next is a long ledger to catch the roof rafters for the lean to shed on the woods side (back) and I'm putting in a 6x8 "strongback" across the 5 center posts on the inside of that back wall. 

[VB-Milling]

Looks like its coming together as you planned.  Any big surprises so far during framing?  Did your layout work out?

I need more land....100x100 isn't going to cut it for much longer!

[711ac]

I am discovering that I need to do a bunch of work on my bar joists to transition to wood. Nothing really difficult but I'll be adding 200+ "tabs" to fasten the perpendicular framing for the roof. They'll all have to line up (joists to joist) so that things stay square. It's all good. 

[Bruno of NH]

Go to a drywall supply shop.
They have clips you can buy cheap and get some Tec  screws and screw the clips to the bar joist.  
I have done that with my friend that owns a big metal framing company.
I used to help him on some big jobs back in the day.

[711ac]

Go to a drywall supply shop.
They have clips you can buy cheap and get some Tec  screws and screw the clips to the bar joist.  
I have done that with my friend that owns a big metal framing company.
I used to help him on some big jobs back in the day.

Man Bruno that was what I was looking for, Thanks.
I didn't know where to find them and was going to fabricate something. I even stopped by a welder buddy thinking that was an "accessory" that would come from the bar joists people but I've never seen one around here in my travels, I thought he might know of a supplier. 
I do know where a good commercial drywall supplier is that I've bought some structural steel studs for a big rolling door frame I built. 👍

[Bruno of NH]

I have some and will take a picture of them

[711ac]

Testing 123, been so long (shamefully) I had a hard time finding it.

 

[711ac]

...continued
Wow it's been since the end of June! My apologies to those that may have been following along. Then there's the pics on the phone, not my strong point. Then I couldn't find it because it's been sooo long.
I'm under roof as of a couple of weeks ago, finally. That included a drive down to PA to buy the metal and over. 100' of rolling door track. Saved over $1500 and got to visit with my daughters as a bonus.


 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Now that I've re-learned posting pics (and with the right orientation :D) these kinda filled in the blanks of the last few months. Summer was hot and that building is dead in the sun all day long. I mostly do these type of projects because I like to build. As I've gotten older I HATE the heat, that takes the fun out of it for me and I pretty much took 2 months off hoping to get it under roof before snow. I almost made it. The only help that I've had was the concrete man at the beginning, I kinda like it that way especially with this weird combination of materials and finding solutions along the way. 
 I've got to saw some fascia boards and do the soffits then the siding. I've just started gathering logs for that, it will be Hemlock. My local pine mill that I usually buy from is swamped and their loggers aparently are not on pine lots, They are buying logs @$450/1000 which I've been told is a record setting figure. They are having a hard time keeping up with their "bread and butter" customers and don't have time for me. I understand completely.


 

 

 

 
If my "figuring" is correct, I'll need about 12-14 12' logs. I'm working on gathering them before I need to convert my tractor to snowplowing duty. The framework the plow attaches to drops my clearance at the front to about 10". Not ideal in the woods not to mention I drop the loader.


 

[711ac]

I am planning in 1x12 (vertical) for the siding boards. Right now once I have my logs, I'm planning on sawing for a day, then nailing them on, repeat. No battens - yet, if the shrinkage is not wild it may not get them at all. I've never used Hemlock for "barn" siding before, only Tulip Poplar when I lived down in the mid atlantic reigon. 
Any tips or problems with a 12" wide Hemlock board?

[mike_belben]

That is some sweet iron.

[richhiway]

Tell us about your log trailer? Thks

[711ac]

That's a buddy and his rig. I was highly impressed with it with that log in the picture. I skidded the logs out a couple hundred feet to him. It's about a mile back up to the mill and my project. His complaint is the reach, you really need to be right on top of the logs..

[bobnic]

I am planning in 1x12 (vertical) for the siding boards. Right now once I have my logs, I'm planning on sawing for a day, then nailing them on, repeat. No battens - yet, if the shrinkage is not wild it may not get them at all. I've never used Hemlock for "barn" siding before, only Tulip Poplar when I lived down in the mid atlantic reigon.
Any tips or problems with a 12" wide Hemlock board?

!2" is pretty wide and putting them up green you will definitely need some battens unless you can live with 3/8' to 1/2" gaps once they dry out.  Best to install them pith side out and two screws or nails spaced a couple inches either side of the center.  Installing pith side out means the center of the board will try to cup outward with the edges pressed tight against the framing.  Keeping the fasteners close to the middle holds the board tight and minimizes the chance of shrinkage cracking.  If you do install battens, also do it pith side out and only one screw or nail in the center passing thru the gap between the boards.  Again the cupping of the battens will press their edges against the boards.  Board and batten works great with green hemlock if installed per above.

[mike_belben]

Any idea on the HP or tractor model and how many cord or bdft it pulls out in one pass?

[711ac]

Any idea on the HP or tractor model and how many cord or bdft it pulls out in one pass?

Mike I guess that was directed to me, the tractor hooked to the log trailer is a m 7040. The one with the 3pt grapple is a m9540,
both Kubotas 70 & 95 hp. I built the grapple-winch (hyd) thingy for gathering firewood for my own use and because I love building stuff. The tractor is armored underneath and I estimate that it's a solid 6 ton at least. It pulls pretty good, especially in our gravelly soils, the part (or weak link) that concerns me is the load on the top link. I've had no trouble, but my loading being about 6' rearward is in my estimation, is out of a typical ag situation and was probably not considered by the factory engineers. It's the castings on the rear that would be a catastrophic failure and it's always a consideration in the back of my mind.
I'm usually wrangling pecker poles under 10-12" thinning my woods. This property was last owned by a logger and the big wood is gone.
So I really can't answer your production question, my high productivity days (for anything) were a good 10 years ago.  ;D

[711ac]

I guess I've become only a "fair weather builder". 
Between getting ready for the snow and 3 hours of daylight (not really)  and getting old...
I've managed to cut hopefully enough logs for the siding. It is my intention to work on this over the winter. Cut a few logs and when my ADD kicks in, go and nail them up, repeat. 
Have a great Christmas fellas! 
<br




 

 

 


 
10* a few days ago with our first snow (6") now a lovely freezing rain.  :-\

[thecfarm]

I built a horse run in with 10 inch hemlock. Cut down the trees, saw them into boards, then build with them. Sometimes in less than 2 hours. That way no stacking of lumber.
I used 4 inch batten. I saw the 10 inch boards and 4 inch battens on a small shed that I drove by on the way to work. I really liked the looks of it. Took me a few months before I saw someone outside to ask what he used.





I hang my hat up for size.  

[711ac]

Coming out of hibernation, I started back at it a few weeks ago. Saw a little, then nail a little. 


 

 

 

 

[Andries]

That is one sweet sawmill shed, Mr 711!

[trimguy]

That's looking really good.

[Ventryjr]

Looks good! Wish I was that far along with my building.   Stay safe! 

[jpassardi]

Nice work. That's going to be a big plus to keep you and the mill out of the summer sun and the rain.

[tacks Y]

Good looking job. What is the plan for the end? I did one where I ran a board down over and the next one 2" lower then back up and repeat. Breaks up the end and makes it easy not having to hold a straight line. I just cut the batton strip to the short board.

[711ac]

Right now I just plan on battens over the joints. I'd like to make them about 5/8" thick and no more than 3" wide minimizing their look and "texture", but I'm not sure if I should worry about making it so thin (5/8"). My concern is their stability (laying flat) as my purlins are at 30" centers and I only plan on one nail or screw into the purlins hopefully avoiding drying/shrinking problems.
There will be rolling doors on 3 of the walls interrupting the siding and battens almost corner to corner. I sized the openings as wide as I could to allow the open door panels to "park" on the remaining wall without hanging out past the corners. Just building the doors and hanging the track will be a few days work working alone. They are just like a hinged door,
get everything right and it'll work perfectly. I remember rolling doors as a kid that it took everything you had to move it.

[Oddman]

Very nice building. It's Interesting how small it looks with the mill parked inside. 
On the battens we do 3" x 3/4 on 24" centers with a single screw (predrilled) at each purlin, works great for us with our oak siding. Personally  I would stick with screws, if i had to nail I would use galvanized and hand nail it.

[711ac]

Very nice building. It's Interesting how small it looks with the mill parked inside.

Over the years, this seems to hold true regardless of building, size or purpose. 😆
I'm a rookie and have yet to determine the best flow of materials in and across the mill. I have no delusions of super production, I waited about 30 years too long for that.
 The mill is set in the shorter dimension of the building and setting it this way, my thinking was machine access to each side of the saw. In cutting the siding I mostly work off the loading arms throwing off the slabwood onto them, then coming back to grab the stack of sawn wood. In the process a few oddball or un edged boards will come off the other side to a pair of sawhorses for further attention. 
Over my years in home construction I've learned to admire and appreciate the skills of every phase of construction no matter how simple it might seem. Having made some sawdust and wasting a fair amount of logs, it's no different making lumber, real sawyers make it look easy too!

[711ac]

 

 

 
Got all the siding and battens on along with all 104' of sliding door track.
Today I moved to the back wall where I'm adding a 16' wide (x42') lean to.  

[711ac]

Footings for the lean to, possibly overkill but this is on fill and I can't exactly remember how long it's been there at the -4' level. (for frost)


 

 
I'm building the (rolling) doors now, I decided to get a little wild. 


 
I screwed it all on, just in case  :D, but I'm liking it. 
<br
 
I used a "LVL" for the frame as they're very stable.