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Author Topic: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File  (Read 4666 times)

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Offline HolmenTree

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New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« on: August 17, 2021, 01:05:42 PM »
It's been a while since I've  posted on here since I got deeply into R&D on my Honda and Yamaha bikesaw projects. And their going good BTW.

I'm not sure if these new Stihl products have been discussed on here, but here we go.

I always marvel of Stihl's new innovations.  This new style chain with special file enables a person to file a square ground type of edge as easy as using a round file.
Now the extra green safety links might throw a professional off but think of the liability Stihl would have if they promoted this aggressive style cutter on a yellow chain.

Thinks of the possibilities using the file if you are already a proficient round file hand filer.
Husqvarna introduced this style of cutter profile back when they first introduced the 572XP, but no file was offered, just  ground.

My only suggestion is to use a guide to clamp onto the file like normally used on a round file then consistent angles can be made.

I heard introduction of this file and chain is fall of 2021. But the bottom photo of the file with 2 other chisel bit files came out of a homeowner's shop in Australia.


 

 

 

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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2021, 01:13:28 PM »
And yes you definitely don't want to go hog wild filing down the depth gauges (rakers).
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2021, 02:43:47 PM »
That looks flat out mean. And very grabby.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2021, 03:06:52 PM »
That looks flat out mean. And very grabby.
That profile worked very well on the Husqvarna X Cut chain when it helped promote the introduction of the 572XP.
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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2021, 03:28:33 PM »
Maybe I am missing something here, I can't tell for sure unless I have it on my bench, but that file looks like the same angles as the pferd 6 corner file. That pferd file is shown in your bottom photo, just on the right side.
 From the little I can see in these photos, there sure isn't much difference between that setup and a standard square grind. Does the v-notch on that chain break to the outside right where the top plate and corner plate meet?
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Offline Tacotodd

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2021, 08:18:51 PM »
@HolmenTree it looks like all that you need is the file. If the gullet wont allow that file in right away, then you can just wait until the gullet opens enough for the file to fit, but I tried to do something similar to that with the standard 3 sided (really 6) but it didnt work so well :(. What am I missing?
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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2021, 11:26:26 PM »
This new hexagon file is closer to a round file then the other standard chisel bit files. 
Like I said earlier I can see one of those file guides that clamp on to a round file could make this Hexa file easy to use.
I can't comment anymore on this new file until I get it in my hands to try out.
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2021, 11:31:36 PM »
That file is an equal sided hexagon. The triangle files for square ground were truncated triangles with unequal sides. Never had a problem filing square with a double-bevel-chisel-bit-file.
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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2021, 06:53:20 AM »
I mis-spoke above, the file I use is called a '3-corner' by pferd (even though it has 6 corners on it) or what Dave calls a 'double bevel' file. It works just as one would want for chisel sharpening. I have never tried a triangle file for chisel...yet.
 But my question is more on the chain shown there. Is it a standard chisel ground tooth or did Stihl come up with something different? Would a 3 corner file work on it?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2021, 09:58:54 AM »
From my perception of that cutter using that chain is it isn't much different than a modified version of a standard "square filed " except the side plate goes deeper .It's something one might find on  a custom filed "race chain ..Saying that with that special file it would be easier than a standard multi beveled file which to me is a pain in the back sides and very time consuming .
I guess some people are fans of square and some are not because of the time involved .I can do a 20" loop of round chisel in about 5 minutes and were it square it would be 25 minutes at least .

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2021, 10:14:47 AM »
If the chain isn't damaged, they should be the same amount of time. Three strokes per cutter.
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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2021, 10:20:59 PM »
This hexagon file and the 75 sideplate angle it makes is more like a race chain style like Al said.

These Husqvarna X Cut C85 chains and others with these angles is more of a European thing for 20"-24" b/c cutting high production softwood logging.
Vallorbe a Swiss file maker makes a file pictured below to also make these angles.
Stihl now has this hexa file to add to the market.
But like I said these chains are filed for small to medium stem softwood logging, not PNW old or second growth timber.


 

 

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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2021, 06:55:11 AM »
From the conversation this chain was obviously made for a specific  use and that being soft woods . I've got a few loops of Stihl square that Rocky J in Florida sent me .He bought a couple of rolls of it which about drove him nuts so he filed it round .I've never tried it myself .I don't think on  hard dead ash and hickory it would work out very good for me .It's very seldom I cut a live tree unless it's a hazard or nuisance .Although one of my Stihl  200T's does have rapid super which is round chisel and it has improved the cut speed .I tried filing one loop square but that didn't do as well .

Offline Skeans1

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2021, 07:06:01 AM »
@Al_Smith 
Square holds up just fine in the hardwoods as long as you dont end up to low with beaks. The biggest thing is how the angles of the cutters are setup to start with myself I dislike Stihl square chain one its harder on grinding stones and two it doesnt cut any faster then Oregon of the roll.

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2021, 08:18:13 AM »
Well perhaps it does but green cut white oak and rock hard dead hickory are not one in the same .90 percent of the stuff I do are long dead ash and hickory .For that use round chisel seems to work better for me because I can file it pretty fast .The only "grinder " I have is a Dremel type only used on damaged cutters .Wire fence and rocks are kind of hard on them you know .Try as you might and careful as you are if you cut long  enough you will experience them .

Offline Real1shepherd

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2021, 09:38:33 AM »
@Al_Smith
Square holds up just fine in the hardwoods as long as you don’t end up to low with beaks. The biggest thing is how the angles of the cutters are setup to start with myself I dislike Stihl square chain one it’s harder on grinding stones and two it doesn’t cut any faster then Oregon of the roll.
Exactly and we've had this 'discussion' in here before with him. Even commercial .404 skip(like Oregon 68CJ), square file will cut hardwoods like butter as long as you have 80cc or bigger.

Kevin

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2021, 09:52:58 AM »
 :D Once again the subject is just general conversion depending on ones view point .I can't comment on trees in Washington state mainly because I've never experienced or for that matter ever seen them .Fact never been to Washington state ,have to Washington DC though .Conversely I find it hard to believe many would be able to honestly opine on wood growing in the middle of the eastern corn belt unless they've experienced them .True this conversation has gone on as long as the great debate on mix oil ratios or weather a Swedish made saw is better than a German made saw .It's all about opinions and always has been and likely will be forever . 8) 

Offline Real1shepherd

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2021, 10:37:56 AM »
But as I've told you repeatedly.....I had a big farm after I quit loggin' in the PNW that was in central MO. I had 120 acres of woods in the mix ..... cut Bur Oak, Black Walnut and White Oak. All using my commercial saws with skip-tooth square file chain.

But there's something mysterious about them 'special' indigenous hardwoods that come out of Ohio......lol.

Conversely, you seem to have no trouble to opine about PNW wood and the saws we use, even though you've never been out here.

Kevin

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2021, 11:36:01 AM »
Just before the time when I quit chainsaw milling when I sold my 395XP, 090AV and my Alaskan mill and slabbing rails....I tried a loop of Oregon .404 50AL chisel bit chain straight off the roll to run on the Alaskan mill.

For our festival's chainsaw speed cutting competition I milled up two 14"10"16 foot timbers from a couple of oversize frozen spruce logs the day before the competition due to our sawmill sponsor not able to supply the timbers.

It was about -40 below wind chill that morning,  the 090AV wouldn't run as it just iced up.
The Husqvarna 395XP loved the cold!
With that brand new Oregon chisel bit square chain on the 395 I completely milled the two 16 foot timbers plus a couple of smaller 16 foot pieces without  re-sharpening the chain!
It held an edge way longer then a round filed cutter that I have milled with .404 chisel previously over the years. I wished I had discovered milling with square ground years earlier.
It was slowing down some after the 2nd timber but I was very impressed how that factory square grind held an edge with full bark on those frozen solid logs and how faster and smoother a cut it made.


 

 

 

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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2021, 12:05:30 PM »
But as I've told you repeatedly.....I had a big farm after I quit loggin' in the PNW that was in central MO. I had 120 acres of woods in the mix ..... cut Bur Oak, Black Walnut and White Oak. All using my commercial saws with skip-tooth square file chain.

But there's something mysterious about them 'special' indigenous hardwoods that come out of Ohio......lol.

Conversely, you seem to have no trouble to opine about PNW wood and the saws we use, even though you've never been out here.

Kevin
Well you do carry on .I can't remember ever saying anything about PNW woods fact said so in the previous post .Why should I even care what brand or size of saw or the type of chain .BTW Ohio white oak cut green is no big deal ,cuts relatively easy .Again dead hickory not so much, hard as a rock but not bad green .Having said that no I'm not going to jump on the band wagon and use square ground chisel chain .Do as you wish and I'll do the same .BTW since you mentioned it I do own several of those "PNW saws " that in fact came from the PNW .No big secret I know for a fact how they run which quite honestly ,they do good .---there miracle as it seems we do agree on something .Don't you just hate that ? :D

Offline Real1shepherd

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2021, 04:52:27 PM »
But as I've told you repeatedly.....I had a big farm after I quit loggin' in the PNW that was in central MO. I had 120 acres of woods in the mix ..... cut Bur Oak, Black Walnut and White Oak. All using my commercial saws with skip-tooth square file chain.

But there's something mysterious about them 'special' indigenous hardwoods that come out of Ohio......lol.

Conversely, you seem to have no trouble to opine about PNW wood and the saws we use, even though you've never been out here.

Kevin
Well you do carry on .I can't remember ever saying anything about PNW woods fact said so in the previous post .Why should I even care what brand or size of saw or the type of chain .BTW Ohio white oak cut green is no big deal ,cuts relatively easy .Again dead hickory not so much, hard as a rock but not bad green .Having said that no I'm not going to jump on the band wagon and use square ground chisel chain .Do as you wish and I'll do the same .BTW since you mentioned it I do own several of those "PNW saws " that in fact came from the PNW .No big secret I know for a fact how they run which quite honestly ,they do good .---there miracle as it seems we do agree on something .Don't you just hate that ? :D
I 'hate' that you don't remember our previous conversations. I guess that's my curse and rehashing everything for Nth time is just pedantic to me.

You're the last person in the world I would try to push into square ground chisel chain. In fact, AVOID it at all costs....with your mindset, you will always hate it. But on the other hand, I'm not gonna let you run down square ground chain as a no-no for hardwoods either......because I've cut both softwoods and hardwoods with it in two very different parts of the country. Your point about it being dead or green is irrelevant. With properly sharp square ground chain and enough cc's, it's not an issue either. I cut plenty of dry, dead hardwood on that farm.

Now that being said.....if someone in the Midwest was asking about a good saw and chain combo for their indigenous trees, I wouldn't recommend big commercial saws like I have and fitted like I have.....or the Oregon 68CJ chain either. I'd go to saw shops and find out what works for the local cutters.

My original point was there was no reason to ditch what I had and buy new saws and chain just because of a different landscape. But I believe you could find a semi-commercial square ground chain that would work on those Midwest trees beautifully. So quit acting like square ground chisel chain is a function of living in the PNW....clearly it is not and popular in many other locals. It's not just race chain, more to the point. People that say it's just for softwoods and dulls easily in hardwoods just don't what they're talking about. There a square ground chain that will work and cutter angles that will work for hardwoods.

Willard's point in starting this thread....a kissing cousin to the conventional square ground chain and even a special file for it.

Kevin

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2021, 08:26:16 PM »
Okay we in the eastern portion of the country are illiterate  idiots .Point taken. Plus anybody who is not pro feller doesn't know beans from apple butter .Did I miss anything ? ;D

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2021, 08:43:21 PM »
BTW I need to apologize .It was some time ago I said I'd never comment on another thread you were on but I digressed which I assure you it will never happen again .You're the expert go for it . :)

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2021, 06:34:54 AM »
Square ground chisel bit chain in 1952.
Patent filed July 1946.


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Offline Real1shepherd

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2021, 08:49:27 AM »
BTW I need to apologize .It was some time ago I said I'd never comment on another thread you were on but I digressed which I assure you it will never happen again .You're the expert go for it . :)
Like I said pedantic. I never claim to be an expert on anything. You read what you want to read and ignore experience and facts. I'm trying to help people with knowledge from experience. You're trying to make me out now like I belittle people from the Midwest and the east which is completely false.Why would I....it doesn't make any sense and very little of you for saying that.

And yeah, it would be better if you didn't bait me about 2100's, west coast saw rigs and square ground chain. Grow up.

Kevin

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2021, 08:55:05 AM »
I wish I had thought of this idea.
A fellow from France whose user name is Stihl Stihl rigged up this metal guide to his triangle chisel bit file.
Like training wheels for a file....
I can see someone 3D printing off a bunch of these out of plastic  that snap onto the end of a file.


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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2021, 10:28:01 AM »
I wish I had thought of this idea.

I don't get it. How does it work? You find a video demo anywhere?
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Offline Tacotodd

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2021, 02:40:55 PM »
Willard, that piece looks like the commercial big game hide scrapers that Ive seen.
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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2021, 08:45:10 AM »
Ok folks here's the official Hexa introduction.  :)

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2021, 08:54:59 AM »
Thanks, that straightened me out. It's not a square grind knock-off it's a new tooth geometry entirely. Although it should cut closer to a square grind than a round grind. I guess that's where the '10% faster' claim comes from. Well, it is interesting. Now the question is how will the cutting public take to it?
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2021, 09:31:27 AM »
I am definitely interested in trying one. maybe I can sharpen this one? I suck at the others.

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2021, 10:00:03 AM »
That's got my attention. I'd be interested in seeing the cost of the chain and the files. As an aside, that's a very good video showing how to file a chain. They didn't say a thing, but it was perfectly clear on what needs to be done.

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2021, 10:06:02 AM »
Thanks, that straightened me out. It's not a square grind knock-off it's a new tooth geometry entirely. Although it should cut closer to a square grind than a round grind. I guess that's where the '10% faster' claim comes from. Well, it is interesting. Now the question is how will the cutting public take to it?
OG, yes it is interesting and like I said it's not a tooth profile to compare with a square filed chisel bit, far from it. But now it's possible for a regular round filer to attempt a cutting edge close to a square chisel bit.
Now my question is how OHSA or CSA standards will apply this file for the general public.  
Yellow or Green or both?
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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2021, 10:17:46 AM »
That's got my attention. I'd be interested in seeing the cost of the chain and the files. As an aside, that's a very good video showing how to file a chain. They didn't say a thing, but it was perfectly clear on what needs to be
I think the market will focus more on this hexagon file  then on the matching chain like the earlier ad that I posted.
This video shows what looks like a standard 33RS1 chain, but it does have the laser etched Hexa wear limit guide on the cutter's sideplate.  
Now we have a way to sharpen the new Husqvarna C83/85 XCut chain the way it comes out of the box. :)


 

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Online lxskllr

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2021, 10:24:15 AM »
What's your opinion of Xcut chain. I don't like Oregon at all. The metal's so soft, I think it's made from recycled soup cans. I still have some Carlton I use as beater chain, but once that's gone, I'll be all Stihl since I found a reasonably priced supplier. Is the Xcut more like Stihl or Oregon?

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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2021, 10:43:55 AM »
To be honest I haven't got my hands on any Husqvarna XCut 83/85 chain yet.
But what I see about that chain is when Husqvarna introduced the 572XP a few years back in Europe to counter the Stihl MS462 introduction,  Husqvarna equally promoted the fast cutting XCut chain on the 572XP to help its lower power to weight ratio versus the MS462.

What I'm getting at is the XCut chain helped the 572XP in cutting speed comparison tests against the MS462 with a standard 33RS1 chain.
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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2021, 11:44:53 PM »
 

 
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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2021, 11:50:51 PM »
At least the wear rate is good news😶
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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2021, 10:42:10 AM »
At least the wear rate is good news😶
And they're coming supplied with the early 2022 MS400, 462 and 500i like how the 572XP was introduced with the C83 XCut,  difference is the Stihls come with a file.
Now the big question is will that be worldwide?
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Re: New Stihl Sawchain With Special File
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2021, 06:13:36 AM »
What's your opinion of Xcut chain. I don't like Oregon at all. The metal's so soft, I think it's made from recycled soup cans. I still have some Carlton I use as beater chain, but once that's gone, I'll be all Stihl since I found a reasonably priced supplier. Is the Xcut more like Stihl or Oregon?
I have been very happy with my Xcut chains. They hold an edge well and have a good wear rate. I also agree  100% with you on Oregon chains . I find the Xcut to be much more Stihl like then Oregon.  


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