First Time Sawmill Build (Partial)

[SelcosSaw]

Hello all,

Well, I've gone and done it; I've gotten myself into a jam for sure.  I ordered the Model 1900 Linn Lumber Sawmill Kit built here Super Saw Frame Kit - Linn Lumber Sawmills.
 
I'm new to the forum and new to sawmills as well. 

Yes, I am freaking out now because I am worried about being able to actually build this mill.  I bought the already fabricated and assembled 1900 saw head and now have to create the carriage and rails etc to support it. 

Although this is not a full build, to me it's a "New Sawmill Build" thread and I am so looking forward to working with this amazing group of experts to learn from you and share in the experience of this partial build.

I do have some questions I'll attempt to post in a follow up to this one.

[SelcosSaw]

Question, are there any major disadvantages to having a 4-post design? I want a 4-post design.  Something like this:
Pic Of Four Post


 

I had drawn up a rough sketch of what mine will look like due to the metal that I already have.  I got 17 panels of thick wall 3/16" or ¼" thick material for about $35 each so I want to use this metal as much as possible to cut down on costs.

They are 10' long and 36" wide at the rails and 40" wide to the tips of the bolt flanges. 

Three Pics of metal panels
 




  


  
 
The rectangular tubing is 2x4 inch thick wall.
  
 
If I cut one of them directly in half I think I will have the basis for my carriage. This was drawn with 40" pieces but I guess since the half of the metal frames are only 36" wide we would just do 36".  My saw frame head I think does 32" max so not sure if that would work. I hate to cut up all the metal and have to fab the whole design. Am I lazy, well no, but I do want to saw sometime this next summer. J




 

[SelcosSaw]

Question  I want to put my angle iron with the angle up, BUT, will this design casue sawdust to build up on the tracks?

Can I make a sweeper for them? 

Does the angle iron need to be flat with one leg of the L facing stright up for the wheels? 

What is the school of thought on the rails? I already have a bunch of 15' long angle iron its 1 3/8" on each side and is
galvanized but I think it would work with the wheels that I got (wheels https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0833WLYL8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details ) 

Here is a pic of the angle iron sitting on the rail, it looks like a simple weld would hold it in place.



 



 

[SelcosSaw]

Another question 

I need help with is how to do the carriage up and down section. 

I wanted to use 8 of these (Smith Bearing FCR-2 $61.94 Track Roller, Stud, Flanged, Dia. 2 In. | Zoro.com) to make it run smoothly but they are  $62 each.  

It would eat up all the savings made off of using second hand metal.  

Is there another way to use a 2x4" square tubing piece that would allow it to slide smoothly?  

I am at a loss at this point on how to do that part of the build.  

I liked the design below but those are mega expensive.
Pic of lifter with flanged needle bearings
 
I did see this post here that had something but was not sure if the end result would slide easily.



 

Crusarius' sawmill build - started with Linn Lumber basic kit in Sawmills and Milling (forestryforum.com)

What about this?  Not sure where I grabbed them sorry.


 



 


I assume it did since Crusairius was able to mill at the end of his build saga.  J

[SelcosSaw]

Another question:  

Is ACME threaded rod the right way to go?  

Can I get buy with using a cable winch and pulleys for a bit?  

Are they good enough to get accurate lumber?  

I want to mill a lot of store bought size 1.5"x3.5" lumber.  I plan to get certified so I can inspect and "stamp" my own lumber so I can use it on a house/cabin I want to build. Looks like the next class / test is Dec 6^th 2022 in Nashville.  Structural Lumber Grading | Department of Forestry, Wildlife and Fisheries (tennessee.edu)

The threads are really expensive.

How many of you have wrecked your saw blade or wood due to the cable breaking on a boat winch?

[SelcosSaw]

Continued from above.....

Plan to use the cable winch design for lifting.  

Using these for the pulleys for the lift system.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GFQBPM6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I read a lot on here http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=75176.0 and it seems like the ACME thread is better and more accurate but when I looked it was $25 a foot and the brass fitting for it was nearly $90 each not to mention the chains and sprockets etc. 

I'm really trying to keep this build under $4-5K range.  

This guy seemed to be able to build one pretty cheap, maybe I can find some of the parts like chain and sprockets and make something similar. https://youtu.be/4Na4aJZc8zk?t=1021

Maybe the bar wrapping is the way to go, what if I use a much thicker bar too something like 3" or more that will make it plenty fast and still accurate plus less stress on the cables.  Thoughts?

I have a bunch more questions, but I guess I better pause for a bit.  

[charles mann]

I read a lot on here http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=75176.0 and it seems like the ACME thread is better and more accurate but when I looked it was $25 a foot and the brass fitting for it was nearly $90 each not to mention the chains and sprockets etc.

If you are are paying $25/ft, are looking at stainless or high tensile or large diameter? 
I looked at this place
https://www.roton.com/family/acme-right-screws-and-nuts-7059286/
and ended up using mc master carr since i needed other items as well. 
https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-rods/thread-type~acme/thread-size~1-5/
Not sure what wt. capacity you need, i went with 1.5" i think which is close to the $25/ft from roton, but i should be lifting probably close to 2000 lbs once i add everything to the sawhead. 
Currently 1.5x5tpi 6'(72") long is $118 on mc master carr, $20/ft. 
I would venture to say 1" dia. max for the linn kit, which is what they offer on their parts/accessories page. 
As for your v groove rollers, those are for running on the v up orientation of the angle but could probably work for running on the top of the leg, which can then be bolted down to make for easy replacement down the road when they wear out. 
For lift guides, i used thk45 linear rails and bearings but way overkill for your application. I believe some cooks sawmills use chrome rod and some kind of material (uhmw, bronze) for their guides. Im not 100% on cooks, but i thought when watching their youtube vids, they mentioned the chrome guide rods. I could have went that route, but talking to the machine shop owner, he recommended 2.5" rods, which was almost 3x what it cost me to source the thk linear rails and bearings. 

[SelcosSaw]

As for your v groove rollers, those are for running on the v up orientation of the angle but could probably work for running on the top of the leg, which can then be bolted down to make for easy replacement down the road when they wear out. 

Hahaha I love it that you have faith that I'll be wearing out 1/4" angle iron. Made me laugh but I do see your point, I could bolt them down and then take them off later rather than have to cut off the welds.  I figure that I'd have to cut off the welds anyway if the stuff goes bad.  I'll think about that and add a note for it in the plan.  

I also think that the led screws are really accurate where a boat winch and cables could be off by 1/4" or so if they get tangled or if one breaks in the middle of a saw it could be bad.

Thanks for the heads up of where to get them cheaper.  I'll probably try to do 1" pieces and then use a gear and chain method of lifting them all at once.

[charles mann]

As for your v groove rollers, those are for running on the v up orientation of the angle but could probably work for running on the top of the leg, which can then be bolted down to make for easy replacement down the road when they wear out.

Hahaha I love it that you have faith that I'll be wearing out 1/4" angle iron. Made me laugh but I do see your point, I could bolt them down and then take them off later rather than have to cut off the welds.  I figure that I'd have to cut off the welds anyway if the stuff goes bad.  I'll think about that and add a note for it in the plan.  

I also think that the led screws are really accurate where a boat winch and cables could be off by 1/4" or so if they get tangled or if one breaks in the middle of a saw it could be bad.

Thanks for the heads up of where to get them cheaper.  I'll probably try to do 1" pieces and then use a gear and chain method of lifting them all at once.

Here is how i set mine up to power both acme screws. https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=103916.100
Another source for better clarification is a youtuber matt cremona and his sawmill build. Mine is 90% the same as his, since i purchased the plans of his mill from him. It might help you with figuring some things out. Only thing it did for me is cause me to spend a lot of money. 

[Iwawoodwork]

Why not use an electric atv winch for the lift with a double line. then no worry about being a click off.  On your carriage wheels.  do you know someone with a lathe, easy to drill shaft hole and turn a v in a piece of 3-4" shaft then tap in brass or bronze bushings.
Your 4"channel should work great for the carriage head with some flapper wheel clean up, you can box around channel just as easy as box tube. That material you have looks to me just what the home builder ordered would build the head carriage and the frame rails from it, but double the rails with one on top the other and if want super strong weld a 3rd run under that as it appears you have plenty of material, also make a suggestion that you make your track long enough to move the saw head away 3-4' from the longest wood you plan to saw (16-20').   with a good stout frame, you can easily install an axle to make a portable mill.  I like the height of my portable mighty mite band mill as less bending over, the work is at waist level,  

[Iwawoodwork]

I was also going to say that I have looked at some 4" very hard plastic wheels with metal axle bushings that I considered for turning a v in, when scrounging material to build my own band mill, they would be cheaper and easily replaceable, before I found the Mity mite. I scrounged a couple of old wood shop band saws, one with 19" wheels and the other has over 30"wheels, and 5 sticks of 8"x1/2" x20' angle.
 I was part way along the 'build it' route when I found the mitey mite.

[Ljohnsaw]

I had a multi-sprocket chain setup that was hand crank for a bit then I used a wheelchair motor.  That worked ok until it didn't (wore out the bearings on the sprockets).  Then I upgraded to 1/2" ACME rods but I bought them from Surplus Center.  They were ungraded and I stripped out one of the nuts.  So then I bought 3/4" from McMaster and those are holding up.  Got much longer bronze "nuts" so a lot more surface area of engaged threads.

For the wheels, I bought some cheap 3" snatch blocks (10 for something like $25).  They worked pretty good (no bearings).  I had a chunk of 4" bar (was a train like wheel on a filing cabinet system).  I sliced those up into wheels and put a groove in them.  Mounted ball bearings but still too small.  Then I happened on to some 6" pulleys from a tailgate lift.  They have needle bearings.  Go big on your wheels and it makes rolling so much easier and will help to smooth out any imperfections in your track (joints).  I set up for power drive but really didn't like it - and then fried the controller.  If you're going to buy the wheels, go for a U profile rather than a V one.  Then the much smaller contact area will not be bothered by sawdust build up.  I run a U profile on the upright angle leg.

For my lift "bearings" on the verticals, I just used some UHMW (think white cutting board material from the Dollar Store) in some custom mounts.  Works fine.  There is a bit of play in my setup but that doesn't affect the cutting accuracy.

[DDW_OR]

here are some useful links

Shopping for a mill in Sawmills and Milling

https://qualityfarmsupply.com/collections/cotton-picker-spindle-lubricant

[JoshNZ]

I turned my own lead screws, approx 1" let's say maybe 22-24mm diameter 3mm trap thread (metric version of acme). Also turned nuts to sit under the beam, the nuts have a flange on them with oversized holes and the bolts aren't torqued right up, just snugged with Loctite in the threads. There's a ~1/4" sheet of rubber between the flanges and beam.

It works great anyway, I haven't touched them since the last post-paint assembly 3-4 years ago however long it's been. I have no experience with the cable style but I'm really happy with how mine work and suspect it's a whole lot more trouble free than cables. Approach your mark from above or below, let go of the button, and saw. Both sides are even etc, no worrying about snapping or movement etc.

I'm planning on building a bigger hydraulic mill at some point and will go with leadscrews again, for what that's worth haha. Lots of photos in gallery if you're bored.

Good luck keep us posted.

[SelcosSaw]

Another source for better clarification is a youtuber matt cremona and his sawmill build.

Whoa that guy built a huge mill!  Good stuff there, I had not thought about buying plans for this but that might be a good option too. I do like the ACME rods now that I see them in action they are smooth and strong with no cable to snap and kill me.  I'll be using the ACME rods.

[SelcosSaw]

Why not use an electric atv winch for the lift with a double line. then no worry about being a click off.  On your carriage wheels.  do you know someone with a lathe, easy to drill shaft hole and turn a v in a piece of 3-4" shaft then tap in brass or bronze bushings. Your 4"channel should work great for the carriage head with some flapper wheel clean up, you can box around channel just as easy as box tube.

I do have a brand new ATV winch I had never used thats a thought for the motor, I think using the ACME thread is the way I want to go because I just dont trust cheap cables on boat winches.   Also, I just found out that the 2x4 steel is ONLY 3/16" of an inch thick, its not thin but its its not 1/4" like I had thought / hoped. Now I am questioning if it will be strong enough for this build. The stuff is heavy though I cant lift a panel by myself.

Ill get some pics of that here later today.

[SelcosSaw]

For my lift "bearings" on the verticals, I just used some UHMW (think white cutting board material from the Dollar Store) in some custom mounts.  Works fine.  There is a bit of play in my setup but that doesn't affect the cutting accuracy.

Hey this is something that does make sense to me, put that nylon or material inside and it will slide along but I need to be sure I can replace it if slop gets too much.  Cheap too .  I bought some small bearings but they are only about an inch in diameter and I'll try them but I suspect I'll need something more beefy. I see a common theme in all of your answers though.  It seems that doing things Cheap is not the way of a sawyer!  I hope I can get there at a midpoint though.  Im sorry to hear your electronics and stuff went bad, I hope to add them later but I plan on doing manual for at least a year to truly understand the saw and how much time it will save me.  Also I love this forum you ALL are so helpful and I really appreciate the time you put into replies since that is your most valuable resource. Thank you All for that.

[SelcosSaw]

here are some useful links Shopping for a mill in Sawmills and Milling https://qualityfarmsupply.com/collections/cotton-picker-spindle-lubricant

WOW and I thought I had read some things.   Thank you for the links I'll read through that stuff its amazing the total cumulative volume of knowledge contained in this place and your minds.

I'm getting some flak from buddies that I bought the mill head and did not "make" the entire sawmill.  But I just thought about it, this is my first mill, no one says it has to be my last, I'll build the next one from scratch with better metal if I fall in love with the hobby.  Either way I am sure they will be hitting me up to just mill them a few boards here and there. hahahahah

[charles mann]

Did they make their mill from ram material or do they have a mill? 

Have they offered to help you build your mill, and if so, do you truly believe they will? 

If no, tell them "buddies" to go pound sand. 

[DDW_OR]

here are some useful links Shopping for a mill in Sawmills and Milling https://qualityfarmsupply.com/collections/cotton-picker-spindle-lubricant

WOW and I thought I had read some things.  Thank you for the links I'll read through that stuff its amazing the total cumulative volume of knowledge contained in this place and your minds.

I'm getting some flak from buddies that I bought the mill head and did not "make" the entire sawmill.  But I just thought about it, this is my first mill, no one says it has to be my last, I'll build the next one from scratch with better metal if I fall in love with the hobby.  Either way I am sure they will be hitting me up to just mill them a few boards here and there. hahahahah

that is just a fraction of the knowledge on this site.
sounds like you got bitten by the mill bug

getting logs into boards is only 40% of the work
the other 60% is getting it into usable lumber

[SelcosSaw]

If no, tell them "buddies" to go pound sand.

I think its all fun and games.  I know that several will help me build it with actual man hours. One of my buddies bought a new mill its still in the crate 3 months later due to some sickness but I hope to get over there and help him assemble it and I am sure he will also come help me weld and grind.  My brother was able to use a mill for a few weeks and he got bit by the bug too so he will be helping me on the build.  Im really worried about the 3/16" thickness of the metal, I just hate to go buy all new and spend so much more.  I think I'll just do smaller logs until I can upgrade it later on.

[SelcosSaw]

getting logs into boards is only 40% of the work the other 60% is getting it into usable lumber

I am currently building a log cabin, a new shop table, a fence around a field, some picknick tables, a few pieces of ornate mantles, a couple of large beams for the front porch, wood for a wood porch swing, and for pole barn, and the list goes on ALL IN MY HEAD, you could say I'll be enjoying the 40% for sure and I'm not sure on the 60% but I hope I can turn this stuff into usable lumber. I have 15.5 acres in Jasper TN that I plan to pull logs from, its got some black walnut and oak etc, but it is steep so not sure how to do that.  I may just try to buy a truck load of logs from some lumber companies.  I worked about 1/2 the day on the mill. I mocked up the first rail section with the angle iron on top went through about 8 cutting blades on the grinder and broke my cheap harbor freight band saw blade (that thing frustrated me so badly I think its junk so I am taking it back and will buy a real one probably will cost me three times as much but I just cannot abide junk).

[Ljohnsaw]

Im really worried about the 3/16" thickness of the metal

I used 2x4x1/4" tube for my mill track with 2x3x1/4" angle (3" up).  It is SO heavy.  I wish I used 3/16".  You will be fine with what you have.

[DDW_OR]

please add Jasper TN to your profile.



i am now on 1.5 acres

still have the 166 in Oregon ( selling in 2024 )
will be cutting logs of oak, maple, black walnut, madrona, and white cedar to mill into boards
then dead stack, no stickers, onto a 25 ft gooseneck trailer
and sticker-stack in Montana

in mid 2023 i have over 10 large fir trees in Montana to hire someone to cut down (buildings and houses)
then i will mill into 8' and 10' 2x4 and 2x6
most of the Montana trees are over 22 inch Diameter

[charles mann]

3/16" wall will be fine. 
Im using 3x3x1/4 wall for my carriage, 5x5x1/4 wall for the saw head and 2x6x1/4 wall for the mill bed and it is plenty sturdy enough.