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Stihl ms 400 c. 28" bar

Started by Bthomasb3, February 22, 2023, 10:25:04 AM

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Bthomasb3

Hello everyone I'm buying a Stihl 400c this weekend used for $500 looks in really nice shape only used by a homeowner plan on putting a 28-in tsumura ultralight bar on it what do you think about running a skip tooth or full tooth full chisel chain and whose brand change do you guys like this saw has also had a upgraded Oiler put in it

chep

I run a 20 on mine full comp and can't really imagine a 28. To much power robbed. I have been cutting hardwood and a 28 would kill the saw in these trees 

ehp

maybe in softwood like pine but 28 inch is to big for a 400C to be cutting any real hardwood 

Bthomasb3

I'm not cutting 28" trees I don't want to bend over and stand on my head to limb with short bars

barbender

Too many irons in the fire

chep

Is it the attitude that gave it away barbender?

Bthomasb3


Gary Davis

I run a 28 with a simi skip on me 036 the 400 has almost one more hp, it should be able to handle it just keep the rpms up 

barbender

Nah Chep, I wasn't picking up on any attitude, just the fact that they seem to run bars out there that are half again as long as what we would use for the same task. I can't imagine limbing with a 28" but if someone has a method that works for them more power to them.
Too many irons in the fire

so il logger

Quote from: chep on February 24, 2023, 08:27:23 PM
Is it the attitude that gave it away barbender?
Attitude? The guy asked a question. This forum is all about questions and not generalizing a question by assuming one lives in one location or another. I myself have caught plenty of flack from pnw guys on other forums because I don't live there so I must not know anything, timber is different here than there. But to generalize a bar length question to must be pnw is a far stretch. I expect better from a admin honestly

chep

Attitude. Sorry guys I was just playing around. Every time some west coaster comes on and busts balls about short bars and bore cutting I just get 😴... 

To the op If in Penn and just limbing and felling smaller trees you'll be fine. But sink a 28 on a 400 into a 28" hardwood and you will kill it pretty quick or get bored lol
 Sounds like you already made up your mind. I like full comp chains and usually run stihl brand. There I tried to answered his question 







ehp

I guess its just me but i'm bent over all day long and everyday cutting hours and hours per day , I donot get the long bar thing so I donot have to bend over , the longer bar will play my back out alot faster than having to bend over and the long bar makes it far harder to carry the saw in the bush from tree to tree . Plus the longer bar even in light weight is still going to make the saw very nose heavy so that is another thing my back will have to fight . On a 400 the 20 inch setup works very good and you can fall a pretty big tree with that setup , If I need to go to 25 inch setup I go up on saw power to a 462 or 500 to keep saw balance , now I'm talking cutting hardwood , softwood is totally different . You got to think about stuff like the clutch as its not going to be happy having to pull a longer chain with a small motor 

B.C.C. Lapp

I have two 400's and I'd say 28" is long for the saw.   I log in Pa and I use 20" bars for just about everything.  Even for the times I'm in 30 inch plus logs.   Which certainly aint all the time. 

The longer bar will only slow you down and wear you out.  Takes longer to sharpen, costs more.  Other than the added reach I don't see pro's but quite a few con's.   To each his own though. If thats what you got your mind set on have at it.
Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf.

so il logger

Longer bar than needed is a hindrance here, I've cut millions of ft of decent to large sized hardwood with a 20" via the slick stumping and sometimes notching in the sides to get at the heart method. 24" is what I normally run nowadays. I don't stand up and buck like that fool on YouTube. But to each his own and timber is different regionally. There has to be a reason why guys in pnw do what they do

lxskllr

The 400 is specced by Stihl to run a 25" bar, same as my 362. The 362 runs it fine. It's suboptimal, but if you need the length as a one-off thing, it's a good match. Since the 400 is more powerful than the 362, I don't see why you couldn't push the bar to 28", with the same caveats as the 362+25".

That said, long bars on small saws suck. I have a bad back, and I'd rather carry my 661 with the 25" bar than the 362. The balance is so off on the 362, it tweaks my back more than the heavier but balanced 661. Instead of going for extra reach(How much is a few inches really?), work on ergonomics. Get on your knees if you have to, watch posture, and don't overextend.

beenthere

QuoteThere has to be a reason why guys in pnw do what they do

Peer pressure would likely be one of the reasons. Gotta keep up the image set by others. Been that way for many a year, although the conditions also play an important part of which tool to use in the moment. Can't carry a different saw for every occasion into the woods. So smaller trees get cut up with a bigger saw that works for those bigger trees. 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Gary Davis

I like the 28 in light bar  I don't like bending over I don't like cutting with the tip of the bar and I don't like to sit on the ground and cut its to hard to get up 

Southside

Chep - I know you are a reasonable human and all, but maybe if you answered the question instead of being sarcastic...  :D
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chep

@Southside
You got me good!!
I did answer the question and gave  opinion based on my experiences as a human in my first response. 


JD Guy

FWIW- I run the 25" light bar with full comp RS chain and the 400C does really well in hardwood, don't have experience with longer bar than that. If I were to try the 28" (not likely) I would use skip chain, but might be a bit grabby for limbing. Just my 2 cents  :)

Skeans1

Quote from: beenthere on February 26, 2023, 09:47:35 AM
QuoteThere has to be a reason why guys in pnw do what they do

Peer pressure would likely be one of the reasons. Gotta keep up the image set by others. Been that way for many a year, although the conditions also play an important part of which tool to use in the moment. Can't carry a different saw for every occasion into the woods. So smaller trees get cut up with a bigger saw that works for those bigger trees.
Have you ever cut or bucked anything on a slope steep enough the far side of the tree is above your head? There's reasons something a 28 or 32 or 36 is still standard it's also nice if you're cutting all day in bar length wood to sight a face in without messing around, how about a back cut without checking the far side? These are some of the reasons you see what you see out here.

barbender

Like I say, I figure there is a reason you guys do things the way you do out there. I don't think anyone would lug a 32" bar around just for fun.
Too many irons in the fire

Skeans1

@barbender 
Look up @RHP Logging on here he runs longer bars out there all the time and cut like the PNW does.

ehp

When I'm cutting in bad ravines I go up on bar length cause I cannot reach the far side in bigger oak and I know I will not be bore cutting that side cause in most cases it 8 to 10 feet to the ground but the high side of cut is ground level , I carry in the truck up to 36 inch bar setups but most times its a 28 or the 32 inch setup if I have to use it . The 36 inch bar setup honestly most times get used on big walnut or the real huge oak . I lived out west in BC for over 3 years and worked in the wood industry but most in the sawmill end . But I can tell you I seen fallers on steep ground out there cutting stuff I really would not like , It's a total different game cutting 5 ft up on the stump trees and having to buck those trees into logs , to me that was by far the most dangerous part , seen guys bucking big trees up and standing on the low side on steep ground .that would be hard for me to do . I would want to be on the high side but in some cases that just cannot happen 

DHansen

Just my opinion, but sometimes it just makes the job a little easier or a little safer having the right tool for the job at hand.  I'll lug a long bar when it's needed.  And the girls think it's cool!

 

 

 

King William

I just purchased a 500i with a 36 inch bar to run on my Granberg Alaskan mill and it has plenty of power to spare and usually starts on the first pull. It gives you a 30 inch width of cut once it's mounted on the mill. The Stihl setup I purchased was around $1650.00



 

Walnut Beast

Congratulations on the 500! Looks like it's getting the job done 👍

barbender

I bought this 500i hardly used, but it only had a 20" bar on it. So I had to put a "long" one on it, 24" Sugihara light. It balances nice and I think the light bar is lighter than the 20" Stihl ES bar. 

Too many irons in the fire

ehp

ya the 500i bounces out nice with a 24/25 inch bar setup 

barbender

 The guy that I bought this saw from put aftermarket dogs on it, the things are a little bit much. They eat up about 2" of bar length, and I've already speared a jug of bar oil with them🤦 I'm sure in a PNW situation with a long bar and trees with 4" thick bark they are the ticket, but they are definitely overkill here.
Too many irons in the fire

Skeans1

@barbender 
The three points are nice in the older growth style bark for sure, but one big bonus to them is they help keep the muffler cover off the bark when cutting or bucking. 

barbender

Copy that. About the only thing they will do me any favors on is the bigger pine we have. Otherwise I'm kinda feeling like Freddy Kruger at a balloon party😁
Too many irons in the fire

cuznguido

Quote from: so il logger on February 26, 2023, 01:49:05 AM
Longer bar than needed is a hindrance here, I've cut millions of ft of decent to large sized hardwood with a 20" via the slick stumping and sometimes notching in the sides to get at the heart method. 24" is what I normally run nowadays. I don't stand up and buck like that fool on YouTube. But to each his own and timber is different regionally. There has to be a reason why guys in pnw do what they do
Which fool on youtube?  Serious question.

King William

Quote from: cuznguido on March 10, 2023, 12:59:57 AM
Quote from: so il logger on February 26, 2023, 01:49:05 AM
Longer bar than needed is a hindrance here, I've cut millions of ft of decent to large sized hardwood with a 20" via the slick stumping and sometimes notching in the sides to get at the heart method. 24" is what I normally run nowadays. I don't stand up and buck like that fool on YouTube. But to each his own and timber is different regionally. There has to be a reason why guys in pnw do what they do
Which fool on youtube?  Serious question.
Could be possibly speaking of Buckin' Billy Ray from Canada?

ehp

Barbender , I learned to cut with no spikes of and kind on a saw and the whole region did it that way , All new saws came in with just the smooth bumper on them and when I tried to use a saw with spikes it did not go well to start with cause the chain forsure on a saw without spikes is far more aggressive so with spikes your jammed up alot more in the cut. And you learn to cut all your far wood with your motor being as close as it can be to the wood your cutting then rotate towards you , It sounds stupid but time a cut and see , you cut faster doing it that way than putting the spikes in the log and rotating and cutting with the far end of the bar , Its just like guys saying put a 8 pin on a 372 , yes it will pull it but it will cut slower , I have had to show lots of people that , Its got a 8 pin gear so it has to be faster   well no it does not 

barbender

Yeah I'm sure I'll find less aggressive dogs for it, or a bumper plate. These things are over the top for what I do!
Too many irons in the fire

ehp

the stock dog setup works fine for out here , I have no problems  with mine 

Woodfarmer

My 500i's wear 25" bars, I can't see the 400 being happy with a 28".

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