Finally tracked down my 'dream saw'- bar and chain on an 036 pro

[motzingg]

Its probably not impressive for most of you guys, but ever since I started buying/fixing up/using these higher end saws a few years ago, its been a dream to get my hands on a clean, low hour, 036 pro from the late 90s. 

The size, weight, power all perfect, and i like the screw gas caps over the quick release ones, and a few other small changes that probably don't matter.

I've passed on several that were ex-commercial use and high hour, thrashed, it seems like most people that have these just dont want to give them up, I wonder why?


Anyhow, this popped up sunday night on Facebook and i messaged the guy right away, got it for a really fair price.  The saw is crazy clean and looks like is spent most of its life sitting on the shelf.  Its also got what appears to be a very slight muffler mod, i'll get pics of that later.



 


Anyhow, its great, I love it and the powerhead itself is (as promised) crazy lightweight.  Started up right away and she rips.

The bar is pretty chewed up- looks like it got run without oil on a couple occasions- and i don't like how the bar throws off the weight of the saw.  Hard to tell from the paint being worn off but looks like a rollomatic E with 4 rivets holding the sprocket on the front.


I'm looking for some suggestions for a new bar that will be appropriate for general purpose use around the farm.  I have a couple 50cc (16/18" .325) saws that i use for limbing and bucking, and my 390 with 20" bar that i use for felling is going to get sold ASAP since i never liked that saw.

I'm looking for something thats going to be lighter and balance better than the current heavy 20" since the 036 is such a nice light powerhead.   My priority is first weight/balance/"weildlyness" which as a weekend-warrior tranlates to safety.

Do i keep the 20" basic Stihl bar and swap it on for felling/big stuff, but keep an 18" on it for regular use? 

Is it worth buying a Sugi Hara, Stihl lightweight, etc. 20 and running that for everything?  I've never actually used one, how much difference does the ~160$ lightweight get me? Will it feel like an 18?

Are there other options like oregon that would be a lightweight option at a better price? Keep in mind i'm not using this commercially so it will probably be 5 years before i put the hours on some of you guys do in a month, that said its not impossible that i would bend or otherwise damage a bar because a lot of what i'm cutting is squirelly, windfallen, fencerows full of barbed wire, etc.

Is the move 3/8" for everything, would there be a .325 option that i should consider or is that just dumb?



I'm not afraid to spend some money, the way i use/take care of stuff this saw will probably get passed down to my kids someday (if gas saws are still a thing, haha) so its definitely a buy-once-cry-once kinda deal.  Basically planning on selling my 390 and whatever i get from it goes into getting the 036 perfectly dialed.

Anything else i should mod/check/upgrade out of the box? I'm thinking its perfect just the way it is.


Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance!

[lxskllr]

Nice score! Interesting you find the 20" E bar heavy. I use a 20" ES Light on my 362, and I find it's a perfect match. I've also run a 362 with a 20" E bar, and subjectively, I found they feel the same, but didn't put the bars on a scale.

[motzingg]

Ha ha, yeah i'll admit that i'm not the strongest guy, 5'10, 180 lbs and i sit at a desk all day so a full day swinging the bigger bar around, 5-10 times a year, wears me out pretty good.  Its not that i get sore, or that i cant do it, its that once i get tired it becomes unsafe and a 4.5 hp saw is not something i'm gonna take chances with.


I usually do the big cuts with my 390, then i get out the husky 350 with the 18" bar and break everything down with that.  If i'm doing a bunch of real 5!@#%^&* little stuff, working around barbed wire or rocks, i'll put a thrashed 16" bar on with a china chain. Sometimes i'll buck firewood with the 390 but honestly I prefer the 350 thats faster in the cut on anything under about 12"

The goal is to basically have one saw do it all, without getting worn out, and put a low kick chain with the 16" on the 350 so i can let people borrow it and use it for clearing buckthorn and stuff like that.

[lxskllr]

It isn't so much weight as it is balance imo. My 362 balances nice with the 20" light bar, but it's a bit heavier than your 036, so there may be enough of a difference that your 036 doesn't feel as good.

Aside from very casual use, I don't think there's such a thing as a 'do everything' saw. I have almost half a dozen in active use, and I'm not a professional or a collector. In each size class there's crossover at each end where it works fine, but is suboptimal. Either it'll be too heavy for light work, or not have quite enough power for sustained heavy work.

So... I'd decide what the saw's place is in your lineup. If it were me, and I was sending the 390 down the the road, the 036 + 20" bar would be my big saw for larger felling jobs, and bucking up bigger wood. I'd use the 50cc saws for limbing, and cutting up small trees.

[Spike60]

That saw is in nice shape and certainly deserves a nice new bar. With your concern about weight and balance, you'll appreciate something like a Sugihara. Feels like the next size down. As in 20 will feel like you have an 18 on it. With your 50cc saws running 16 an 18 inch bars, you'll likely want some separation there. 

[motzingg]

I do love this forum, all roads lead to 'you should probably own at least 6 (pro) chainsaws'

I am up to 6- including 2 vintage homelites- but with almost (maybe over?) 150 cylinders to maintain on the farm, i'm trying to get down to 2 'good' saws.  Just getting rid of the 390 should cut my saw maintenance in half, *DanG thing is always loading up with sawdust for whatever reason... i think its engineered to be a sawdust trap.

 I also have a 550XP thats on the bench right now getting a rebuild and that will probably get the 18" bar giving me 3 good saws with 16, 18 and 20", either one of them can switch-hit if for whatever reason one is in the shop or randomly wont start, and my tree guy usually gets a call for anything over 30" since i'm not usually dropping stuff like that by myself anyway.


Thats exactly the answer i was looking for, spike, can i have my cake and eat it too by spending more on a Sugi Hara, sounds like maybe yes.  AT the very least I just needed a little gut check that spending more than i have spent on most of my saws, for just a bar, is a smart move.

Any chains in particular people like for this?  I was running a chinese full chisel on the 390 since i pretty much just used it in thick, clean cuts.  Maybe a semi-chisel would be more versatile for this?

If anyone has a setup (bar and chain) they personally like, by all means let me know,  I know some of you guys have shops so i'd be happy to buy direct from a member if you are selling, or if you make chains.  I'm not sure what the rules are for that on the forum but PM me if its not directly allowed to be posted.

[motzingg]

Doing a little research, it looks like the stihl RSC is pretty popular for this application

.325 or 3/8?  I've already got one of those Pferd sharpeners for the 325 husky.  Would be cool to only have to the one sharpener around, is there a compelling reason to need a 3/8?

[lxskllr]

⅜" will cut faster as long as the saw isn't bogging down. .325 will help keep the saw from bogging down in bigger wood  :shrugs:  In your case, with your other saws using .325, it might be worth sticking with it.

I have the opposite problem. I buy chain by the reel, and wanted to stick with ⅜" & ⅜"lp, but I have one .325 saw in my collection, so I have to buy a premade loop when I need a new chain for it, instead of spinning one up myself. I'd like to change that saw over to ⅜"lp, but I haven't made the time to see if it's possible.

Point is, having a standardized supply chain is nice. Fewer things to clutter, and more way to reuse resources.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

I do love this forum, all roads lead to 'you should probably own at least 6 (pro) chainsaws'

Well...............Yeah.  8)   And 8 isn't to many at all.   :D
That's a great little firewood saw.   I'd just throw a 20 inch Stihl or even an Oregon bar on it.  Truth be told "balance" is all about what you get used to. Don't believe me run a stihl for a few days then pick up a Echo or a Dolmar.  It will feel weird as heck for about a day.  Then your good again.
 Keep the air filter clean and give that saw high octane fuel with a good ethanol treatment or run ethanol free fuel.   I miss those screw on tank caps.

[motzingg]

Thanks, great advice as always guys. 

I've noticed the 'faster cutting' on the 390 with full chisel 3/8 and i always assumed it was a full chisel thing but it makes sense, the wider tooth can take a deeper cut.  I'm a engine nut but i gotta admit that i don't really understand chain/cutter dynamics all that well.  I figured the bigger chain was more about durability as the power went up and maybe having a wider kerf when you're cutting larger diameter stuff so the bar doesn't pinch?

I guess i'll stick with the 3/8, thats the sprocket thats on the saw now, I can buy another one of the Pferd/Stihl sharpeners. Do the 20" Sugihara with the RSC chain and see how it goes.   Its all quite a bit cheaper than walking out of the dealer with a brand new rig that could do the same amount of work, so when you look at it that way its money well spent.

[DHansen]

Very nice looking 036.  Looks to have been well cared for.  I have been tempted by a neighbor who put up his 044 for sale.

[Al_Smith]

The 036 is a nice saw and a 20" bar with 3/8" chain is about right .As I type I have an 034 super which in reality is an 036.In the past I had an 036 cylinder on an 034 and had basically the same thing .If you don't get stingy with the mix oil it might run forever .

[motzingg]

Finally had some time to work on saws this weekend, the stable is shaping up to be really solid this year:


I've got:
Husky 350 (johnsereds 2150) w/ 16" bar- always starts second pull and strong runner, 9/10 times if i need to just 'grab a saw quick' for a limb down in the yard or something around the property this is my go-to.  Its also the best at keeping oil and gas inside the saw where it belongs, so most of the time it's ready to run sitting on the shelf.  Trashed 16 bar and a couple cheap china chain loops so when it invariably ends up in the dirt or hitting a nail, I'm not too bummed. 

Husky 550XP- Trash picked with a blown up top end, currently getting an aftermarket cylinder and 18" bar- might become my new main saw? Will have to see how i like it.  Just from working on it, it feels really good, light and well balanced.

Stihl 036P- I think it will be perfect with the SugiHara 20, we'll see.  Option B would be put a 18 on it and sell the 550xp and just switch bars if i have to go through something that needs the 20.

We still have 2 feet (and counting!) of snow on the ground so not much i can do in the way of actual testing, but I took the bar back off the 036 and picked it up, and was also working on cleaning up my 390 to sell it, and picking that up.  First of all, the 390 has a 'farmertec' bar which was noticeably heavier than even the basic Stihl bar. Second the 390 doesn't balance as well, it feels slightly heavier but I think its that the front handle is farther back and off to the side from the bar mount? That saw is really fat, like, wide, and the bar has a somewhat awkward angle.  Honestly cant tell if the few lbs or the shape are what makes it worse, but even with the basic stihl bar on the 036 its noticeably more comfortable.  I think the AV on that model is just kinda chincy and sloppy, too.

I was picking up the 036 and the 390 back to back, holding them in some different postitions, just trying to figure out what it is that really bugs me.  I can definitely see what you guys are saying that if you're standing on nice level ground, making perfect vertical (or even regular horizontal) cuts with good balance and grip on the saw, they are more than light enough (20") for a day of work.

Its not that either of them are 'too heavy' its more that 90% of the time i'm cutting i'm standing off kiter and either limbing, cutting small stuff, or breaking down brush so i can pile it up and burn it.  Almost all my cuts are branches under 8" and at a weird angle, lots of the times cutting on the side or bottom of branches that are pinched, and picking up/setting down/chainbraking the saw every few cuts.

Handling the 550, it might just be that its the right tool for the job.  I've put off rebuilding it just because i didn't want to get into another saw project if i didn't need it, but its immediately apparent that the design/tech is so far advanced of my other saws.  Ergos are way way better and i think it might end up being a favorite if i can get it all put right and reliable with the right combo of oem/am parts.

So, yah we'll see how she does once i've got some work to do.  I'm probably over thinking it, but then again, isn't that the whole reason to have an entire forum dedicated to chainsaws?

[barbender]

Al, by "don't get stingy", you mean the manufacturer's recommended 50:1, correct?😁

[motzingg]

Oh lawd, don't make this an oil thread!   I'm trying to make it into a bar and chain thread!

Don't worry she'll be getting the same 'dirtbike' gas, 91 E0 and 40:1 Amsoil Dominator i've been using it all my high performance 2t for years.  I rebuild about 20-30 2 stroke engines a year (mostly motorsports) and I've seen this oil run 200+ hours in high performance stuff with no issues.

Back to the bar and chain, I couldn't leave well enough alone so i did some more digging and found someone mention the VersaCut being 'lightweght' in another thread, where they also mentioned some of the Oregon bars are quite good for the price.  I always thought Oregon was a lower-end brand, but they have low and high end lines i guess. Someone mentioned they actually 'invented' modern saw chain, wild!

So doing a little more digging i found another post from WeimeiDog mentioning the Versacut for light weight.  I cross referenced the 20" D025 bars and sure enough, the Versacut lists at 2.12 lbs and the SugiHara lists at 2.1 lbs (net) And apparently the Versacut is doing it with clever layers, air pockets, and none of the plastic (not that its bad) that the other guys use.

And i'm finding it listed for about half the price of the SugiHara.

VersaCut? Guide Bar, 20" | Oregon Products


So thats pretty cool,i'm gonna check it out!   Still planning on trying the RS stihl chain although if someone else has a suggestion on a different loop to buy i'm all ears. 

[lxskllr]

Versacut's a laminated bar whereas the Sugi is milled. If you blow a tip, the Sugi can be replaced and put back into service. Might not matter taking cost into account, but it's a notable distinction.

edit:
I found this weight comparison on another forum. I make no guarantees of accuracy...

The 20" ES Light (.050) is 2 lb 0.8 oz. (less than 2 lb 1 oz). My Sugi is 2 lb 3.1 oz,, the E bar is 2 lb 4.6 oz., the Raisman is 2 lb 7.3 oz and the ES is 2 lb 13.5 oz.
 

[Al_Smith]

Al, by "don't get stingy", you mean the manufacturer's recommended 50:1, correct?😁

Some say 100:1, however some say too much oil causes a lean burn . Where that came from I have no idea  ??? I suppose you could mix 16 to one and get two birds with one stone.Cut wood and fog for mosquitoes at the same time .

[motzingg]

The 20" ES Light (.050) is 2 lb 0.8 oz. (less than 2 lb 1 oz). My Sugi is 2 lb 3.1 oz,, the E bar is 2 lb 4.6 oz., the Raisman is 2 lb 7.3 oz and the ES is 2 lb 13.5 oz.

Thanks, thats the info i wasn't able to find... had to go to all the MFG websites and track it down one by one.
I didn't realize the sugi and other high end bars are milled as in literally cut from a single slab of steel.  Thats crazy!  They are pretty reasonably priced considering that, seems like an unnecessarily expensive and complicated way to make them, but holy cow super fancy and cool.

[motzingg]

I know this post is useless without pics, but I finally had a chance to use the saw last weekend and man, she rips! 

Honestly i expected her to run a bit faster?  Maybe the 20" bar is a bit too much.  Its got good midrange torque in the cut but its not turning the RPM's i think it should, maybe a bit more tuning is in order, I'll probably buy an 18 bar eventually.  Its definitely not punching in that 70cc class that i was hoping for.


I went with the Oregon Advance Cut bar and the Oregon 72 LP chain and its a great combo, the bar is working very well balance wise.  I ran it for one tank of gas cutting a variety of everything from buckthorn to facing off big stumps, and i was starting to get a little tired. Being the first day running a saw in the spring, it takes a bit for the muscle memory to come back. 

The biggest thing, and i almost feel stupid saying this, that i finally figured out is that you cant use the .325 sharpener to sharpen a 3/8 chain.  I've been filing my chain with the same Pferd (same as sthil) all in one sharpener i had bought for my 50cc saws.  Honestly i didn't really look that close at what it was doing, it seemed to work, but when i put it up next to the brand new chain i could see how far off it was.  I ordered the correct 3/8 sharpener and that helped a ton.  Its not that it wasn't getting it sharp, it just wasn't the right geometry to pull off a nice big chip.