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Recommendations for a new saw

Started by xXStanXx, August 21, 2017, 07:58:07 PM

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xXStanXx

I'm sure this has been asked far too many time, but please bear with me. And more accurately, this i really helping me pick my first saw. I've been using other people's saws for years and I figure it's about time I got my own.

As far as previous experience I don't have a lot. It's mostly been limbing and bucking smaller (12" dia or so) tress that we have either taken out of yard at home or have had to remove from blocking our road out at our rural property, which is where most of my future use will be.

Previous saws I've used have been mainly my dad's: a 20 or 30 year old Poulan with a 12" bar that given enough time would eventually make its way through anything we threw at it and a 40cc Troybilt with an 18" bar that while being a huge upgrade from the old Poulan, it still seems to get bogged down in some of the bigger stuff we cut. Besides that I've used the odd Husqvarna or Stihl here and there.

Most of the cutting I'd be doing would on deadfall spruce, pine, and aspen that probably averages around 12"-14" diameter, with some of the larger being around 18" or slightly bigger. There may be some birch cut as well, and the odd time we do take down a live tree, but I'd say 99% of the cutting will be deadfall.

Right now I'm definitely leaning towards a Husqvarna as they seem to be much easier to find where I live compared to Stihl. I'm looking for recommendations on what you'd think would be a good saw/bar length combo. Also, I'm not totally opposed to getting a pro model saw, as I'm always in favor of buying the best you can afford so you never need to replace it in the future.

Thanks in advance for the help.

DelawhereJoe

If you don't mind spending the money on a pro saw go with the husqvarna 550xp or the Stihl 261 c-m. If your ok with jonsered try to locate a 2253 its made out of some of the same parts as the 550xp. If you limited to a big box store maybe the husqvarna 450 or 455 rancher. Echo will give you the most bang for your buck, you could perhaps get 2 saws for the price of a Stihl or Husqvarna pro saw.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

xXStanXx

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on August 21, 2017, 08:26:51 PM
If you don't mind spending the money on a pro saw go with the husqvarna 550xp or the Stihl 261 c-m. If your ok with jonsered try to locate a 2253 its made out of some of the same parts as the 550xp. If you limited to a big box store maybe the husqvarna 450 or 455 rancher. Echo will give you the most bang for your buck, you could perhaps get 2 saws for the price of a Stihl or Husqvarna pro saw.

I've definitely done a lot of looking at the 450/455 Rancher as well as the 550xp and both look like great options (as do the 545/555). From the looking I've done locally a lot of the comparable Echo saws are pretty close in price to what I'm finding the prices for Husqvarnas are, but I'll definitely keep Echo in mind.

I'll be honest I was leaning pretty hard towards the 550 XP G. It'd definitely be a little pricey, but the heated handles would definitely come in handy for hunting season in November.

I guess my biggest question here is what engine size/bar length would be best for me?

sawguy21

IMHO you would be well served by a 50-55cc saw with a 16" or 18" bar, I like the 18" as it is a little easier on my back. Husqvarna, Stihl, Jonsered, Echo and Dolmar make fine saws, which brand has the best dealer in your area? A clean, well organized store with good stock and  knowledgeable competent staff is more important than brand.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

thecfarm

xXStanXx,welcome to the forum. Yes,dealer support is very important. I myself would not go over 18 inch for a bar,frm the sounds of what you need. Longer bars cost more,as does chains and takes longer to sharpen.
Hope you have the safety gear too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

xXStanXx

Quote from: thecfarm on August 21, 2017, 09:20:37 PM
xXStanXx,welcome to the forum. Yes,dealer support is very important. I myself would not go over 18 inch for a bar,frm the sounds of what you need. Longer bars cost more,as does chains and takes longer to sharpen.
Hope you have the safety gear too.

18" is kind of what I was leaning towards, considering we don't fell or buck a lot of big stuff anyways. And I suppose it's easy enough to upgrade to a bigger bar if the need arises. And yes, I have the safety gear.

[/quote]
Quote from: sawguy21 on August 21, 2017, 09:12:57 PM
IMHO you would be well served by a 50-55cc saw with a 16" or 18" bar, I like the 18" as it is a little easier on my back. Husqvarna, Stihl, Jonsered, Echo and Dolmar make fine saws, which brand has the best dealer in your area? A clean, well organized store with good stock and  knowledgeable competent staff is more important than brand.

Dealer support in my area is not a problem at all. There are lots of dedicated forestry shops in town and plenty of other powersports places that also deal in lawn/yard maintenance equipment. Although I'm sure most could order in whatever saw I wanted, most seem to have a better selection of Husqvarna in stock than brands like Stihl or Echo (unless I go the big box store route, in which case most have a decent selection of lower end Echo and Husqvarna saws in stock).

John Mc

Since most of the wood you are cutting is softwood, I think you'd be fine with a 50cc saw. I find a 16" bar the best match for these size saws - it's a good match for the power, and most of them seem to balance well with this size bar. In softwood, you could get by with an 18" bar.  If you want a little more power for those larger trees (or get impatient with the medium-sized ones), you might consider stepping up to a 60cc saw.

In the Husqvarna line, if you want to save a little money (and you aren't using the saw full-time), you might look at the 450 with a 16" bar. It's light weight, decent balance and good power for the weight. If you want more power without the expense of a pro-level saw, I'd skip the 455 and go right to the 460. The the extra power in the 455 is almost unnoticeable compared to the 450, but it has all the weight of a 460. For that weight, I'd just get a 460.

In the pro line, you've already mentioned the 550XP. It's a great saw. Just make sure your dealer updates the software to the latest version before it leaves their shop. The pro construction gets you the weight of a 450, with a bit more power than a 460.  The 555 is another good saw: a step up in power and weight from the 550XP. The 555 is not an "XP" saw, but it is still pro-type construction. It may be overkill for your needs, but something to consider if you will regularly be cutting larger logs or getting into more hardwoods.

I'm a big fan of using the smallest bar (and smallest saw) that makes sense for what you are cutting. If 90% of what I'm cutting can be cut in one pass with a 16" bar, then that's what I use. Even my 60cc saws wear a 16" bar the vast majority of the time, since it's rare I'm cutting a lot of stuff more than 16". (I have a 20" spare for it if I'm going to be in larger wood.) I'd rather have the lighter weight and better maneuverability of a shorter bar - especially on a saw that is going to be used for limbing or storm damage clean up. 

In addition, my wife is a physical therapist. She's always on me about using good body mechanics. This means stepping closer or bending my legs a bit to reach that smaller branch closer to the powerhead of the saw, rather than reaching out with the tip. She has pointed out to me (repeatedly) that it's a false advantage to use a longer bar to avoid bending over: the longer the bar and the further out from the powerhead you cut, the further out on the wrong end of a long lever you are. This actually puts more strain on your back (and arms) than just stepping closer or bending down (mainly with your legs). In talking with some pros as well as a couple of Game of Logging instructors, they agree with my wife (I do hate having to admit she is right). The one counter they point out is that when you use a saw for a full day 5 or more days a week, you get those muscles in shape, so you can get away with not using the best body mechanics (though even then, it IS more tiring to ignore proper body mechanics)
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

kenskip1

Do not over look the Echo CS 490.All metal construction. Not a clam shell Echo has a great warranty. I have worked with the big two saw manufactures. My local Stihl dealer charges an astounding $100. an hour.Anyway if you are happy with the Husky and Stihl more power to you.My  Echo CS 550 cuts used as fast if not faster than a comparable Stihl or Husky for a lot less monies.Ken

Also the saw mentioned has an adjustable oilier. Does Stihl, or Husky?
Stihl The One
Stihl Going Strong
Stihl Looking For The Fountain of Middle Age

John Mc

One other thing to keep in mind: the best power "modification" you can do for your saw is to learn to sharpen chains properly and keep your chain sharp. If you don;t know how to sharpen, you can always take it to someone who does, but I can almost guarantee you that you will end up pushing things past the point where they should have been sharpened.

As a chainsaw guru I know explained to me when I was learning to sharpen, "You don;t sharpen your chain 'because it got dull', you sharpen it to keep it from getting dull."
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

mike_belben

Im not a farmboss fan at all in terms of fixing them.  Great when they run but harder than they should be to get the carb on and off imo.

In the plastic jonsereds and husky's you must keep exhaust bolts tight and loctited.  Once they loosen exh gas blows down and melts a hole through the top of the oil tank, i see this all the time.  Theyll strip exh bolts pretty easy, and become a pile of junk.

I am otherwise a big fan of jonsered for their removeable transfer port covers, makes them easier to port.  Husky 346xp or stihl 026 are both excellent saws for an 18" bar.  All metal, split case, every part available and easy to work on.  Older husky 351 is very close to a 346xp.  All metal jonsered turbos are great too.
Praise The Lord

Riwaka

Dolmar/ Makita 6100 if you are not using the saw very often. If you are going to start cutting the neighbour's place as well when you get a good saw Husqy 562 xp, 570 II (6hp and have a few different bar and chain lengths and swap them to match the wood you are cutting), 556 .

xXStanXx

Thanks for all the input so far. Another questions I have is as a very casual user, would it be worth it to get something with a traditional carb vs something with AutoTune/M-Tronic even though I can extend the warranty by a year or two quite easily? I'm just thinking that if something goes wrong outside of the warranty period, I don't see any way in which fixing a saw with an electronically controlled carb could be cheaper than fixing one with a standard carb. I hope that line of thinking is making some sort of sense.

DelawhereJoe

That is something for you to consider, in the event that your carb does completely gum up from the fuel those auto-tune saws are gonna cut deep into your wallet compared to traditional carbs. Also don't forget about Makita saws there 50cc saws run 3.9 hp.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

dougand3

If you want to work on the saw yourself, standard carb is better. Autotune requires dealer diagnostics/software.
There are so many options out there, it can get overwhelming.
Best dealer support is important if you need the dealer to work on it.
If spending $400+, get a pro build saw - don't stop at clamshell level.
If an economical entry into your first saw is wanted - get a refurb 50cc PP5020AV clamshell for $130 and put a 16" K095 (small Husky mount) bar on it. It will perform fine for an occasional firewood hoarder. You will need to learn carb tuning with no dealer support. Then you can learn muffler mod.
Husky: 372xt, 272xp, 61, 55 (x3)...Poulan: 315, 4218 (x3), 2375, 2150, 2055, 2000 (x3)...Stihl 011AVT...Homelite XL...Saws come in broken, get fixed or parted, find new homes

Stoneyacrefarm

My new husky saws come with a 4 year warranty if you buy a can of their premix fuel.
Can't beat that deal.  :)
Work hard. Be rewarded.

xXStanXx

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on August 23, 2017, 10:19:51 AM
That is something for you to consider, in the event that your carb does completely gum up from the fuel those auto-tune saws are gonna cut deep into your wallet compared to traditional carbs. Also don't forget about Makita saws there 50cc saws run 3.9 hp.

That's my big concern with getting a pro grade saw. Honestly by the time I put in enough use where a problem may become evident, I may very well be out of warranty, and I'd hate to be forking out big money on repairs (one local shop charges labor at $150 CDN an hour).

Quote from: dougand3 on August 23, 2017, 10:29:18 AM
If you want to work on the saw yourself, standard carb is better. Autotune requires dealer diagnostics/software.
There are so many options out there, it can get overwhelming.
Best dealer support is important if you need the dealer to work on it.
If spending $400+, get a pro build saw - don't stop at clamshell level.
If an economical entry into your first saw is wanted - get a refurb 50cc PP5020AV clamshell for $130 and put a 16" K095 (small Husky mount) bar on it. It will perform fine for an occasional firewood hoarder. You will need to learn carb tuning with no dealer support. Then you can learn muffler mod.

If all I was buying was a saw I could potentially eat the cost of getting a pro saw, but I'd like to be able to get a good case, extra chain, probably my own safety gear, and the fuel/oil I'll need, FWIW up here in Canada at my local dealer a Husky 460 Rancher runs $650 with a 20" bar whereas a 550XP starts at $770 with an 18" bar and a 562XP starts at $950 with a 20" bar.

Quote from: Stoneyacrefarm on August 23, 2017, 03:52:37 PM
My new husky saws come with a 4 year warranty if you buy a can of their premix fuel.
Can't beat that deal.  :)

You've got to love how Husqvarna doesn't make you do anything meaningful to get the extra warranty. They might as well just offer it as a straight cash option at time of purchase for all it's worth.

On an unrelated not, a few people have mentioned getting an Echo and I'm wondering if anyone has experience with the CD-590? It's about $50 cheaper than a Husky 460, but dealer support would definitely take a hit as just about anyone who sells any sort of lawn or yard maintenance stuff locally is a Husky or Stihl dealer, but there are only 2 or 3 Echo dealers locally.

DelawhereJoe

Where about are you up in the north lands (Canada) are you? Have you thought about purchasing a new saw off of flea bay from a reputable seller or craigslist, at least around here there are people that sell saws new in the box.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

khntr85


xXStanXx

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on August 23, 2017, 08:36:14 PM
Where about are you up in the north lands (Canada) are you? Have you thought about purchasing a new saw off of flea bay from a reputable seller or craigslist, at least around here there are people that sell saws new in the box.

I'm in Calgary. I haven't given any though to using eBay or Craigslist or similar, but this might be a case where going through a dealer would be best, especially if If I go the Husqvarna route and want the extra 2 years of warranty.

Stoneyacrefarm

My opinion for what it's worth.
Buy from a local dealer that will support you.
If you support them. They will support you.
I've purchased 2 pro saws from my local dealer.
When I go in there for something.
They know my name and don't get mad at me if I haggle.
A good relationship with your local dealer is invaluable.
Work hard. Be rewarded.

John Mc

Quote from: Stoneyacrefarm on August 23, 2017, 10:40:47 PM
My opinion for what it's worth.
Buy from a local dealer that will support you.
If you support them. They will support you.
I've purchased 2 pro saws from my local dealer.
When I go in there for something.
They know my name and don't get mad at me if I haggle.
A good relationship with your local dealer is invaluable.

X2 ... especially if you are not a chainsaw mechanic yourself.

But do take the time to find out who the GOOD dealers are in your area, and remember that how nice and attentive the sales people are is not necessarily an indication of how good the service department is.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

xXStanXx

Quote from: John Mc on August 24, 2017, 07:00:14 AM
Quote from: Stoneyacrefarm on August 23, 2017, 10:40:47 PM
My opinion for what it's worth.
Buy from a local dealer that will support you.
If you support them. They will support you.
I've purchased 2 pro saws from my local dealer.
When I go in there for something.
They know my name and don't get mad at me if I haggle.
A good relationship with your local dealer is invaluable.

X2 ... especially if you are not a chainsaw mechanic yourself.

But do take the time to find out who the GOOD dealers are in your area, and remember that how nice and attentive the sales people are is not necessarily an indication of how good the service department is.

I am by no means a chainsaw mechanic, so having a good dealer will be essential, but I'd like to be able to work on my own saw because I have no plans on paying exorbitant shop labor charges. Unfortunately there are only 3 local dealers, and one of them is an equipment rental place, so my options are a little bit limited.

dougand3

"You've got to love how Husqvarna doesn't make you do anything meaningful to get the extra warranty. "

It's meaningful to Husqvarna - they sell more fuel or oil. They know the chance of a successful warranty claim is slim to none.
Read the warranty carefully. It's to repair defects in material or workmanship under normal use and maintenance. You'll know that within 5 hours of run time. And there are many exclusions, like the engine and wear items.
If your saw doesn't start a year after purchase, you can't count on it being a warranty claim.
Husky: 372xt, 272xp, 61, 55 (x3)...Poulan: 315, 4218 (x3), 2375, 2150, 2055, 2000 (x3)...Stihl 011AVT...Homelite XL...Saws come in broken, get fixed or parted, find new homes

mike_belben

If my local saw shop wasnt great i would avoid M tronics.  I do hear great things about its performance but it means giving up that freedom of self repair. 

Theres no reason why you cant buy a good used pro saw. Just pull the plug and muffler before purchase to verify the jug.  If it runs good and oils right you should be fine maintaining it.  All parts are available for any pro saw made in the last 30 yrs.   Im partial to crankcase style over clamshell in any brand.  And feel husky/jonsered are the easiest to tear down and swap bits around.  That said the high price of big pro stihl stuff has kept them from falling in my hands as often as orange and red. I assume theyre excellent.
Praise The Lord

PNWRusty

I'm amazed at all the worry of something going wrong with a pro saw. Yes, it can happen but, generally, after they make it past the first few hours, they just run and run and run. Assuming the owner isn't doing something silly like using bean oil or thinking they know more than the maker about oil ratio's, revving the engine with the brake on, running with carb misadjusted, using stale gas,  etc.

Treat it right and it will almost certainly treat you right. I buy a saw and don't plan to work on it for many years, beyond normal air filter, cleaning and adjusting. IMHO, there is too much worry and not enough confidence.

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