Looking for equipment for forest

[magallanas]

Hello Everyone!

We have 50 acres in the Catskills, pretty much all woods. There's lots of downed trees, pesky trees (mainly beech that are infected) and some invasive species that need to get pushed out.

The ground is rocky, uneven, mossy in many places...

My question is what would be the best tractor for the job? (I thought about a skid steer, but determined it will not handle this type of terrain). It would be nice to drag logs through the forest if needed/wanted.

At first I thought I needed a backhoe to get stumps out if the grapple/stump digger couldn't do the job, but is this really needed? Cabbed or not?

Any advice from the vortex would be appreciated! Thanks in advance

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum. 

May take some trial and error to get what works best for you. All a learning experience, as likely no one machine will be the answer. 

What I use, and also have logging tongs to take the place of the ballast box if needed/wanted. Has worked well for me for the last 25 years.

[mudfarmer]

Are there existing "trails" from past harvests? Probably the biggest asset to an individual trying to maintain a chunk of forest with limited equipment is trails. If there are not usable trails you may want to start your focus there. Use a winch to get trees to the trails. Wild guess if you have some type of existing trails is any 30-50hp 4wd tractor will be most useful. If no trails... excavator, dozer, skidder......

[magallanas]

Are there existing "trails" from past harvests? Probably the biggest asset to an individual trying to maintain a chunk of forest with limited equipment is trails. If there are not usable trails you may want to start your focus there. Use a winch to get trees to the trails. Wild guess if you have some type of existing trails is any 30-50hp 4wd tractor will be most useful. If no trails... excavator, dozer, skidder......

There are a few trails from former logging, I am guessing along long time ago, along with an old town road. Any set up with a winch you would recommend? Seems like a good idea since gravity might help get them down to an area I can pull them out with the tractor

[mudfarmer]

Look in this section of the board for the 'Tractor logging with winch' topic, lots of good posts in there

[Kodiakmac]

Figure out what hp tractor you really need ... and then go a size or (preferably) 2 bigger. 

[BargeMonkey]

The sweet spot for an all around tractor is 40-70hp, you jump up to a larger tractor frame forget getting around in the woods without wide roads. Skidsteer coupler is almost standard anymore, and would run ag tires. All these newer tractors suck, cheap plastic and tin feeling, skid some wood and maintenance on trails they work but pushing stumps out and heavy digging with a 3pt hoe doesnt take long to tear up a machine. Eklunds in Stamford isn't a bad place to shop, Miller's in Schoharie is where we get all our tractors and ag equipment. 

[thecfarm]

Here's the link to tractor logging with a winch.

Welcome to the forum.
I probably mentioned it the above thread. Just cut the stumps low and drive over them. And I do mean low. I use to move some dirt away from the stump to get them low. Blame my father on that. he wanted the stumps low. Not going to cowboy a tractor over to many stumps without breaking something.
We hauled out some big pine with a 40hp tractor and a Norse winch. Three feet was normal and some bigger. Did not haul out too many 16 footers 3 feet across.
brush needs to be cut up short too. Meaning not much more then 2 feet long, if you plan on driving through the slash.
Yes takes time, but my land is hard to get around on.With rocks , knolls, leave trees, wet holes, it's hard to go through my woods.
You ever cut logs before? There is a lot to it. Most mills want fresh logs. Not logs sitting around for a month.

[rusticretreater]

For your size acreage you want something with 40-50hp minimum, a grapple and a bush hog.  Grapples are great because you can just grab logs.  But you can also grab brush or use the teeth as a rake to pull out brush, collect branches etc.  Its great for clearing out them *DanG sticker bushes.

While it would seem a cab on the tractor would be safer, it also hinders you when working in thicker foliage and branches will always be slapping the cab windows, etc.  That's a personal preference item.

You want at least a two ton winch or better depending on what you will be pulling on.  I have a 4k and an 8k winch.  Any sizeable log will be pushing 1000 pounds.  Logs will hang on things, dig into the ground, get stuck on rocks and you will need lots of power to pull it out to where you can work on it.  The winch should also be strong enough to pull your tractor out of ruts and things in case you get stuck out there.

[thecfarm]

Grapples are nice.
My stepson has one. 
He tells me I need one.
Which I do.
But I haul a bucket full of rocks  up into a wet hole and then pick up a load of dirt on the way out.
Hard to do all that with a grapple.
Then I put pieces of wood into the bucket and come out of the woods.

[rusticretreater]

Yep many a time I planned the day's work around using the grapple and then switching to the bucket.  Need two tractors.

[AKBOUND]

Not a direct answer to your question about a tractor but I have used an ATV log arch in the past to pull logs out of rough terrain.  It allows you to use a ATV so you can get to steep places or move trees to the trail as needed. It has a winch attachment too if you need to pull trees up hill and keeps the log off the ground so fewer rocks embedded in the bark.

It is a little slow to hand crank with the cable or disconnecting from the wheeler to use the tongs but it is another lower cost option.  Mine is from Logrite.  I think WM makes one too.

https://logrite.com/Category/log-arches

[AndyVT]

I also have a 50 acre woodlot that I have managed for the last 30+ years and have upgraded my equipment over time. Since I have need for a multi purpose machine I got a 60 hp tractor with a 3 ph 10k lb logging winch and a 42 inch opening grapple on the loader. This combo handles all the logs I cut but as my woods are quite rocky and rough, I also have a JD 450C dozer with forestry package and winch to access the difficult areas and push in roads. It's slow, hard work for one person but if you like problem solving with machines it is satisfying and enjoyable.
I'm not in it for the money. 

[DDW_OR]

50 hp 4x4 tractor, recommend a name brand. mine is a Mahindra 5520 shuttle shift, gear shift. better for long distance travel
Hydro is good for easy use and short travel
FEL = Front End Loader, with skid-steer quick attach forks
Wallenstein PTO winch, with trailer receiver hitch

tow trailer into woods
Winch = skid logs to trailer
FEL = load onto trailer
tow back to mill

build pallets to put the cut lumber onto
then use the tractor forks to move it around

here are some good links to read


Observations of a New Sawyer in Sawmills and Milling

Useful sawmill mods in Sawmills and Milling

what degree bandsaw blade in Sawmills and Milling

Blade Can in Sawmills and Milling

New Circle mill adventures in Sawmills and Milling

Shifting Large Logs laterally on sawmill in Sawmills and Milling

Stopping Falling Stickers.......Video by 123 Goat in Sawmills and Milling

trees and bees, can it pay to plant cover crops in young forests? in Alternative methods and solutions



this is a really nice looking table
Toddlers cedar picnic table in General Woodworking

[TreefarmerNN]

Are there existing "trails" from past harvests? Probably the biggest asset to an individual trying to maintain a chunk of forest with limited equipment is trails. If there are not usable trails you may want to start your focus there. Use a winch to get trees to the trails. Wild guess if you have some type of existing trails is any 30-50hp 4wd tractor will be most useful. If no trails... excavator, dozer, skidder......

There are a few trails from former logging, I am guessing along long time ago, along with an old town road. Any set up with a winch you would recommend? Seems like a good idea since gravity might help get them down to an area I can pull them out with the tractor

I recently bought a Tajfun 35 winch.  Size of the winch depends on the tractor you are going to use it on.  Ryan Willock suggested the 35 winch and he was correct, it's well matched to my tractor.  This video has some good information.

https://youtu.be/YoVDlOPBews

[maple flats]

Back 25 yrs ago and farther back, I used to sell Fransgard logging winches. I mainly delt with there V4000 which was rated as a 4000 KG pull or 8800 lbs. We sold several in that size, but only one smaller and one larger in the 20 or so years we sold them. At the time we were outdoor furnace dealers and installers and we carried the winches because they partnered well with the outdoor furnaces. I say furnace, because while they held a large volume of water they were open to the atmosphere and weren't boilers.
Over the ones we sold we only ever had 1 issue. A guy using a 38HP John Deere actually bent the shaft on the winch drum. While the manufacturer sent us all of the necessary parts to fix it, they had us buy it back because that operator just didn't understand what the mfgr told him, and they paid some of the buy back amount, enough to satisfy us. They said, the only way a shaft could have gotten bent was if a larger log was pulled too close to the winch, the drum locked and then he turned too sharp putting enough stress on the winch drum.
We bought it, repaired it and then sold it with a letter describing what had happened and what had been replaced and with a new winch guarantee.
I now have one of those V4000 winches on my 36HP Mahindra 4 wheel drive. I think a winch that size was rated to be used with 40-60 hp tractors, I'm a little light, but I use it accordingly and I don't pull off the cable with the winch locked. I hook the chains onto the slots that grab the chain link and I keep enough chain between the winch and the log so it can't bind against the blade as I turn while hauling logs out. Even with a 36 hp 4x4 tractor I do pull a whole tree out if it's not over 18" at the butt, and it's bucked into multiple logs. I keep 5 logging chains on the rig if needed. If a log is bigger I generally buck it to length and pull it out as 1 or maybe 2 logs. I have no hills, I'd guess my biggest uphill might be maybe a 6 or 7' rise over 25 or more feet.
So, what I suggest is that you use a logging winch, of which there are many to choose from, but I suggest you use one paired with a tractor that is 5-10 HP more than the recommended size minimum, and I think a front end loader is a must, because you can carry extra ballast in the bucket for tougher pulls. As far as I can tell all logging winches for tractors are well made and plenty rugged.