Metal detectors

[Cedarman]

I have used a dozen different detectors over the last 26 years. The most sensitive was a Heathkit. It was too sensitive. It could find a piece of bb sized tinfoil at 3 inches deep in the ground. The least was a White's 66TR small head. 

The operator is 90 per cent of success and the machine is 10 per cent.  When I first started "coin shooting", the term for hunting coins in house yards, church yards etc., the pros would go behind me and show me the goodies I was leaving.  Practice is extremely important. For deep metal you must be able to hear the very faint change in tone.

Ideally you must have an area that is free of metal in the ground and 10 feet from the log.  Set the log on some bolsters and systematically scan the log with a slow sweeping motion moving the detector path only a few inches with each sweep.  The top and sides of the log can be scanned. Then roll the log over and do it again.  Shouldn't take more than a minute or so per log.  If you find metal, mark the spot and continue the whole log. The reason is that you may find from none to 20 or more chunks of metal. Too many and the log is history.

If I hit metal in a log on the mill, the log and slab are removed until such time as I can check the log. Ruined one blade, don't want to ruin two.

Also do the checking when all is quiet. If that is not possible, then earphones are a must.

When you first get a detector, try it out on a log that you know has metal.  Roll the log around see what difference that makes.

If you have a firewood chunk size log with metal, then you can use that to check and make sure you have the detector tuned properly.

If anyone wants to stop by, we'll go find some nails. I've got a stack of metalized logs waiting for the detector.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  I have explained how to make a test garden. Laying a nail flat on the ground, and 3 feet away, stick one in the ground. Won't take long to get the message. Nails CAN be tricky.

  Course Frank uses them high dollar machines.  ;D ;D    Minelabs are about the best Hobby Detector for depth. Quit selling them years ago, when they had quality control probs.  Could be better by now.

  We have 5 Minelabs. Highest cost, $2800.00 Dealer cost. That puppy, with the 24" dia. coil, will track them Chinese Dudes.  : : ;D :D :D :D

[maple flats]

The tree I tested is still growing, sort of. Not very healthy but I can see the wire sticking out on opposite sides. I tried to detect with ear phones on. The detector is digital with a descriminator which was set to detect all medals. There was no background noise and I was using headphones. There is a display that shows activity before the signal is strong enough to make a sound but on my test there was no such activity over the wood very near where it entered the tree. There was such thru the air as I passed the coil perpendicular to the wire at about 5" and a sound when doing it at about 4". The wire was a double strand with good mass and 4 point barbs about every 6" giving added mass. Do you think I was doing the test wrong? I may need training!! ??? ???

[Tom]

Before you make an assumptions.......    The wire may not go through the tree  or the detector may not go that deep ...or the detector may be having trouble with the density thing ... or you might not have it set to its ultimate sensitivity ....or....... ;D :D

Sometimes the wire is wrapped around the tree or bent around the other side of the tree and nailed to the middle  or cut and nailed to each side ... or....... :-\

Welcome to the world of metal detecting.  :D :D

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Who makes the MP3 ??? 

  Tom could be correct. The wire could have broken waayyyy back yonder, OR, be nailed as 2 pieces, one on each side of the tree ???

  Speed of the swing has a lot to do with the detection of the signal. Too slow, too fast. Not close enough to the surface. We scrub the coil on the log, ground, whatever, unless THAT sets off a signal.

[UNCLEBUCK]

Sensitivity high, discrimination low , scrub and sweep ! I gettin it figured out now ! Thanks F.D., Tom,cedarman,mapleflats !  scrub and sweep ! scrub and sweep ! 

[Fla._Deadheader]

  UB, GENTLY,  GENTLY.  ;) ;D ;D :D  If you have a coil cover on the bottom, it would be better, but, BH always charged extra for them. : : ;D

[UNCLEBUCK]

10-4 I can do that !  :D

[maple flats]

update!! I talked with Kellyco on a 800 # after getting an email to do so with the persons name to ask for. She told me I had the wrong unit for what I wanted, gave return auth. # and I ordered what she reccommended. The dif. in price was only about $70 above what I got the first time but I also lose 20% return fee which is stated in their paperwork and also shows on their web site. Even at that I want the right tool for the job. What I now ordered is a Garrett "Ace 250", which is supposed to be the best for this use within my price range. The price was 199 which includes headphones plus I ordered a guard to protect the coil and with and the total with freight came to $222. The MP3 pro at Kelly's normal price from them was $299 but I ordered it on an overstock deal for 159 + 12.95 s & h., claiming they had gotten a double shipment and the mfgr had given them a super special instead of taking the shipment back (so their web said) The Garrett did not have an overstock special price. I will keep you posted on the Ace 250. It will take a couple of days extra because they are out of it and have a delivery due either Mon or Tues and will ship out the same day it arrives I was told. Kelly says the Ace 250 will detect a nail at 8" to 10" depending on log moisture. I know there are deeper units out there but this is what fits my pocketbook now. I may get a unit for whole log after I do this a while. So far I have not done any custom cutting nor even tried to sell any lumber. That will change in a couple of months as I have some jobs lined up for this summer when I am not driving school bus. Hope to get even more, I have only told a few I was going to do some custom sawing so far.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Yup, typical Kellyco.  :D :D :D :D  Stu buys by the trailer load. : :

  I sold the Treasure Ace 250 to the members.  Pretty good unit.

  They also manufacture their own. MP3, ??????  :D :D :D

  Headphones MAY be the $5.00 walkman type.  : : :D :D :D :D

  8" deep IF you listen to what the machine is telling you, and it will do a 20" log, then, by rolling the log.  8)

[maple flats]

I will use it and get plenty of practice. I will also put a nail between 2 boards and keep stacking boards to determin max depth. I know I need the practice now.

[Fla._Deadheader]

No need for boards and nails. Put the nail on the ground, AFTER, scanning the ground.  ;) :D   Then, as you sweep over the nail, raise the coil an inch at a time, or so. Play around, then turn the coil on edge and see what you get.  ;) ;)

[maple flats]

2 things. The paper work on the MP3 gave no other mfgr. nor did the box. I think their name is MP, but don't know what it stood for. I was told the headphones were in complete cover ear muffs to block outside noise but I'm sure they are very bottom of the line within this type. If I need better I can get them.

[Tom]

While you are practicing, make it fun.  get a probe and a little spade and go to an old house site or fair ground or  around your yard and look for coins and "stuff".   Try the area where you get out of your car or where a child would play.  Turning upside down on the limb of a tree will expell many childrens toys from the pocket to the ground.  ;D

[maple flats]

Fla, are you saying that the wood will not change the reception? And if I need better headphones do you sell them?

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Yup and Yup.  ;D ;D  The wet growing wood will cause a "Halo" of deteriorated metal around the original piece, everything but gold, that is.  Have you ever seen a Blue stain on the end of a log ???  That is caused by the acid in the tree dissolving a small bit of the iron or steel. The Halo will give a larger target area, but, will be slightly difficult to pinpoint, UNTIL you learn the sounds of the machine. It will be a softer sound, harsher nearest the target. Sounds will have a very subtle difference.

  Dryer wood with nails (driven) or not will not have any bearing on the depth of the machine. Use the moist ground and stick the nail in, then lay it on top of the ground. Notice the different sound.

  If yer hearing is bad, like mine, more dollars = better "luck" finding the target.

  They don't just go  "BOING".  ;) ;D ;D

  Most sawmills here that I visited, have many cants laying around. I could probably fill a pickup for $5.00. These cants have wire going through. Cut off above and below the wire and I get LOTS of Expensive Bowl Blanks.  ;D ;D

  Shhhhhhhhhh, Don't tell the crtreedude.  ;)

[maple flats]

received the new detector (Garrett Ace 250)yesterday. Tried the same test as last time with a previous detector. The Ace worked perfectly. Found barbed wire in a tree beleaved to have wire thru the center. 22" cherry tree with a big rotted cavety from about 2' up to about 12' off the ground( years ago I thought it had a lightning strike and just above where the rot ends now a large limb was shattered and dropped on the ground, lots of small pieces in diameter but about 2' to 4' in length)  The wire appears to pass thru it dead center with the rot passing up and down halfway between entry and exit wire. The detector agrees. Tested both sides and it agrees both sides and does average approx. center. The only thing is that it seems to lie about distance but is consistant. Shows the depth as less than it is. I base this on this tree and locating a cast iron culvert I installed last year. The culvert is straight and can see both ends and can see the amount of fill over it. The detector shows as 6" when the fill is between 10 and 12". At the other end it showed 8+ (8+ is the max readout scale) where it is between 12 and 16" down. every time I tested it I got the same results. I put an 8 penny nail on a board and stacked up inch boards testing each and got similar results but quit at 10". (I will test further this weekend to see how deep it will detect an 8 penny nail.) I can live with that. If I scan a log and detect metal at 8+" should be safe to take up to an 8" cut. I would in the beginning however take less, maybe 4" max and then test again until I get totally familiar with it. I will also take the suggestion from F_DH and build a test plot but my initial tests are very satisfactory. All I need now is to remember to test every log that has nails or metal in it, sounds easy. Except for my oldtimers disease, might be getting like Ronald Regan was in his final years. Hope it's just age instead, but I can go down cellar to get something I really need but when I get there (11 steps later) I can't remember what I went after.   8) 8) 8)  I done good this time!!  8) 8) 8)

[Fla._Deadheader]

 

[All I need now is to remember to test every log that has nails or metal in it, sounds easy. /quote]

  Ya MIGHT wanna test ALL the logs. : :  Them that has metal are pretty easy to identify.  ;D ;D :D :D

[maple flats]

Thats where memory enters the picture. I know you are correct.

[Hokiemill]

Hey maple, any particular reason you went with the ace 250 over others in the same price range?  I'm about to buy so my ears are open.

[maple flats]

My only reason is that I asked Kellyco which would be best to find all metals in logs within the price range up to $300, they answered the Ace250 at a price of $199. I also ordered a plastic shield to protect the coil and add freight of 12.95. I am told in much higher price ranges there are units that will do whole log from one side. Those didn't fit my budget. 8) 8)

[Brucer]

I just bought a Garrett Ace 250 as well. I found a small distributer here in southern BC so I decided to see what he recommended. His first quesition was what I wanted it for, not how much I was prepared to spend -- that was a good sign right there. When I told him I was trying to find nails in logs, he immediately said, "Well you won't need a fancy expensive one for that." That was a real good sign.

He started by suggesting the Ace 150, but he then he wanted to know what I did if when I found a nail in a log. When I told him I'd dig out the nail with a chainsaw and other implements of destruction, he said I might want to fork out the extra dollars for the Ace 250. He figured the pinpointing feature would help to minimize the damage to the log.

It was nice to deal with someone who was more interested in satisfying the customer's need rather than trying to make a quick buck.

As soon as it quits raining I'll be going out to try out Harold's suggestions. Meanwhile I've been amusing (annoying  ???) Barb by trying to play tunes by sweeping the coil over the floor of the house. The nails, wiring, and ductwork under the floor all generate different tones. :D

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Bruce, ya done good. The report you just posted should be required reading for ANYONE that wants a detector.

  See how much better it is when ya try the store first ???  ;) 8) 8)

[Rockn H]

Two things that help me is first when you swing your detector, don't swing it like a pendulum, keep it parallel to the log or ground and definately keep it at the same speed.  Second when you get a hit turn and make a few passes at a 90deg angle.  X marks the spot better. ;D

[Brucer]

Bruce, ya done good. The report you just posted should be required reading for ANYONE that wants a detector.

Thanks, Harold.

I left off the most important part, though. Before contacting a dealer, I searched this forum and then looked at a few manufacturer's web sites. That didn't tell me which was the best detector for my needs, but it gave me enough information that I could tell if I was being conned.