How to tear down a 34' by 48' barn?

sprucebunny · February 07, 2008, 08:28:45 AM

I guess it was foolhardy.... About 30 years ago i took down a post and beam barn 30x60. Took the siding off, cut a few of the trunnels, wrapped a cable around the length of the peak of the roof and yanked on it with an Econoline van.
Ignorance is bliss :D :D

It ended up in a fairly neat, flat pile on the ground. Didn't break many of the tenons.

Looking back, I guess i was very lucky ;)

It was alot of work cleaning up the debris and then the guy decided the beams (some were supposed to be my pay... ) were worth a fortune and I ended up with about $200 for my effort.
One of the 2 hand-hewn beams I got is holding up the livingroom ceiling in my old house.

Good luck !

Clovis · February 07, 2008, 11:10:00 AM

Tim, Square rule frame? I never heard of that term before. Please explain. The roof line has no sags but the top cross beams do have some sag to them. No bows to the walls that I noticed.

Sprucebunny, funny story about the barn. I think most of us have been in that situation, one way or another, before. That was a concern of mine to that I would put some effort into this and then the carpet is pulled out from under the whole operation. There is a couple of brothers involved in the farming where the barn is located. People start to think there is money involved (real or perceived) and things can get weird. ???

thecfarm · February 07, 2008, 03:55:37 PM

Moonhill,just go back into your profile and put in Maine into location.I would not of known you was from Maine if you did not mention it in one of your posts.We all like to know what general area someone is from.I'm on page 20 by the way.Mine was printed back in '97.Mine shows you as being way up on the east side of Maine,Jonesport,Jonesboro,Machias,East Machias.You will enjoy it on here.I suppose you got some snow from this storm?Looked like a coastal storm on TV.I only got about 4 inches too much.

Jim_Rogers · February 07, 2008, 06:10:52 PM

thecfarm:
Recently there was a timber framing meeting in Maine and I met Tim (moonhill). and he's a very nice guy for sure....

Jim Rogers

Clovis · February 07, 2008, 08:20:22 PM

You know guys some things in life are not fair. I live in Windsor Ontario Canada, and its not the hot bed of historical places. Don't get me wrong I love my home area but I have, even as a youngster, dreamed of the eastern seaboard and its rich history. In Windsor we are surrounded by American television and I have allways dreamed of going to Maine and the eastern states. I have been to Vermont twice and LOVE it. Although I just go to ski, I admire the buildings the most. Soon my beautiful bride to be and I will travel to the east on our honeymoon and just move around to revel in its splendor of historical buildings and places. (not to mention the lobster) Clovis

moonhill · February 08, 2008, 05:09:51 AM

Thanks, Jim. Clovis, check out Jim's directions at the top of the list, that is square rule. Now I will go back to Profile and put in Maine. Tim B.

Clovis · February 08, 2008, 02:32:20 PM

Square rule. Found it. Thats what the barn looks like.

Clovis · February 21, 2008, 08:20:16 PM

Finally got those pics of that barn. The bottom is toast but the loft is in good shape. the rafters are not what i need though. I need 4 by 6 or 8 not 2 by 5" :'(

shinnlinger · February 21, 2008, 09:21:10 PM

Clovis,

I have a barn frame with some hand hewn beams and alot of old 8x8's, that I was going to reassemble for my house, but in the end I milled all new, why I say that is the frame you just showed is to me not worth the time. It is too big to really tear down quickly or safely and there isn't awhole lot of good stuff for you efforts. I suppose a long cable might be worth it to see what happens as you aren't risking much as in "if ti breaks oh well, I can still use something"

BUT if you smash it to peices on the ground how obligated are you to clean it all up? If you leave a mess is that going to cause friction? If you are perceived to have walked away with hundreds of dollars worth of lumber, is that good (funny they forget that it took you a month worth of weekends and some rented equipment) Can the bulk of it be burnt in place after you chainsaw out what you want? Are the farm boys ready with some tractors and stuff to help?

If It were me, I dont think I would deal with the headache of it all unless I knew for sure there wouldn't be a headache

semologger · February 21, 2008, 11:03:20 PM

Im glad im not on your crew Im scared of high places and that barn looks pretty tall. There is a guy i know wanting us to help him take down some metal buildings with my knuckleboom. We said no thanks. To much of a pain. I like the barn dont see mainy like that anymore around here.

Ironwood · February 21, 2008, 11:42:00 PM

Well, some plusses are LEVEL ground, LIGHT WEIGHT roof, Siding is already falling off, HMMMM Looks reasonable. The roofing is worth some good cash to the right folks. Floor timbers in the "basement" are ,well ,nasty. Too bad the guy doesn't just reside it with new tin and put a roof on it, the best "green" building s are the ones already standing. How hard do you want to work?

Ironwood

semologger · February 21, 2008, 11:48:23 PM

We just had an bad ice storm. Ive seen alot of the old barns around here you can just pick up off the ground now. Ice and wind wiped them out.

moonhill · February 22, 2008, 06:49:49 AM

Hey, see that scarf over the post. Are the braces morticed or spiked? Looks to be some square rule as well. Looks to be a nice building, from a distance, which means a closer look would be reasonable. Maybe shorten the post and live in it. Looks to be a lot of work. I would be tempted. Sorry for the looks. I still think it would be sad for it to come down. I agree with Ironwood, what would the cost comparison be, new/rebuild? I'm not saying restore, but rebuild to working building.
I think the old buildings that come down in Ice storms are because of neglect not old age. The building above is neglected. Tim B.

Clovis · February 22, 2008, 08:47:36 AM

It never was really my intention to try and rebuild this barn. I was only thinking of saving some of this old girl from the fire pit that she was heading to. I figured that I could learn just as much about timber framing taking a building down as I could putting one up. If I had the time, energy and money to do a project like this I would not be looking at this one but one that had been cared for over the years. That said I do have a little time and energy and a little money to invest in saving at least part of the old girl for my cottage. I think that incorporating some of this old girl into my cottage would be continuing a long tradition of saving parts of an old building and using them in a new one. This is how I believe that this barn was built. It looks like it has been disassembled and moved to its present site. There are toplates that are used for girts and all the braces have been changed from the original ones. This is also how all the old cottages around mine have been built to. I guess that the best way to build green is to be poor! :D I thought that I could use the rafters but they are way to small. Not in a structural sense but in an eye pleasing way. they are 2 x 5"- 30" on center, and I would like 4 x 8"- 48" on center. The roof definitely is light and should come down fairly easy but my effort will be in saving the beams. I also am not going to be left on the hook to clean up the mess when she comes down I am only going to be there to salvage what I can. My friends are taking her down weather I am there or not.

It is a scribe rule barn. What is the proper terminology for the diagonal post for the structural purlins and why did they do it that way? It looks like a simple way to put up a roof for sure.

Jim_Rogers · February 22, 2008, 03:46:42 PM

In this picture the post that are holding up the principal purlin is a queen post. And because it's on an angle and not straight up, it's called a canted queen post.

And you can see that the center post is let up into the bottom of that tie beam. So from this picture it would appear that this is a square rule barn. A scribed barn wouldn't have a housing for the post into the bottom of the tie beam.....

Jim Rogers

Clovis · February 22, 2008, 06:51:31 PM

Thanks for the info Jim. I did mean to type "square" rule but my fingers were moving faster than my brain.

learning everything from a book I thought that queens had to be part of a truss system. Again thanks Jim. Clovis

moonhill · February 23, 2008, 07:23:15 AM

It is hard to tell but the braces look, off. It's as if when the barn was last moved they cut the bracing and stuck 2x4's back in place. Tim B.

maineframer · February 23, 2008, 07:39:57 AM

Those braces do look scant. The barn looks like a good candidate to stabilize and use everday---right where it is.

Don P · February 23, 2008, 09:07:55 AM

Next time you're in there please take some closeups of the scarfs, especially if any show damage. The jury is still out in my mind and I'd like to see how failure works if it is a concern.

shinnlinger · February 23, 2008, 10:53:09 AM

Clovis,

Unless I am missing something, there is nothing THAT special in that barn. That said, I completely agree, it would be very cool to use parts of it in your cottage IF they are still sound (You really need to make sure of soundness if you are going to reuse the timbers structurally)

Any whoo, If it were me and I were you, I would let those boys pull the barn down and then wade in with my chainsaw and pull out select timbers that I thought might be useful for my project. After loading them on my truck I would share some beer hot dogs and marshmallows and watch the baby burn. I wouldn't be to concerned over maximizing reuse with all he other factors, safety being the key one, involved.

Clovis · February 23, 2008, 03:29:33 PM

I guess there is nothing special about that barn IF you have seen a lot of them. I have not, and the ones I did look at were always with fascination and not on how they actually went together. I have been reading quite a bit about timber frames and I have been focusing on the full bent (Ted Benson) type of structure.

My cottage is on a very small island (60x160') and there is not a lot of room to work. let alone that I barge over a crane of some sort to lift up the full bents. Looking at this barn was like a light bulb going on in my head. I can do H-bents with continuous top plates (with scarfs) for the walls and the purlins and use a gin pole to raise the plates and purlins. It still would look very pleasing to the eye inside and I would have my timber frame. A more traditional one in fact.

I hope that explains a little better on why this thing has got my attention. Modern full bent framing just won't work for me and I have been trying to figure out how it could all along. Now I have found a solution to my problem, H-bents.

So I can help a friend take down a barn, learn about joints, study how it went up and I can get some free timbers in the process. smiley_clapping

Those are not the original braces that you see in the pics. They were considerably larger looking at the mortises for them. They are a full 2"x4" now in the barn. If you look at the pics of the lower section you can see that one of the beams have pockets for rafters cut into it.

LeeB · February 23, 2008, 03:44:30 PM

Please educate the ignorant. What is "Modern full bent construction". Not poking fun in any way. This is a real question as I don't know the difference. ???

Don P · February 23, 2008, 05:41:52 PM

This is a pic of "Benson" style bent construction, post to rafters all in one lift. Kind of like a slice through the building all tipped up at once. I'm not so certain that is strictly "modern" as much as it is just another way.