An approach to milling the cant(s) for the job.

OlJarhead · April 15, 2013, 07:42:42 PM

Watching WM's DVD set gave me something to think about and I've decided now that I like the approach of milling to the cant and then coming back to it.

Example:
16 dia small end -- 11"x11" cant -- customer wants 2x6's and 1x's (no specific width).

Seems to me milling the cant to 10x10 first by taking off a 1x11 and then rotating 90 degrees and taking off a 1x10 would give me a 10x10 cant, then splitting it at 6" and removing the 6x10 and 4x10 cants from the mill and going at another log to produce the same (times 3 logs) would give me 3 6x10 cants that I can load and mill to 2x6's and then load the 3 4x10 cants and mill 1x4's out of them.

So in this graphic the white boards represent the flitches that are cut out to give 1" lumber, maximizing the logs potential when the customer wants a mix.
The yellow 1x's are the two removed from the 11"x11" cant to give a 10" x 10" cant for producing the two remaining cants which are in the center. One six inch cant for 2x6's and one 4 inch cant for 1x's

Seems to be a good approach? Do you agree?

OlJarhead · April 15, 2013, 07:43:56 PM

I should add that I was thinking the 4x cant could be milled to produce 1x4's or it could be milled straight as 1x10's if the customer preferred (could mill those first leaving the 6" cant for later when you could combine 3 of them for milling 3 2x6's at once.

OlJarhead · April 15, 2013, 08:04:40 PM

Playing with sketchup too much...

Here's the cant with the 2x's and 1x's lined out -- and the heart added.

justallan1 · April 15, 2013, 08:13:33 PM

Hey Eric, what kind of wood is that? :D Sorry, I just had to.
Okay, on a serious note, thanks for asking. I'll be watching and hopefully can learn something also.
Allan

OlJarhead · April 15, 2013, 08:41:27 PM

Why that's a Doug Fir! lol

OK maybe it's an Erik Fir...who knows...I'm watching too!

mesquite buckeye · April 15, 2013, 09:02:42 PM

Can you draw up one like I get? They are short, crooked, with rotten spots and plenty of iron.

I need to get one of those log stretcher, straightener, blowuper, rotfiller dealies. ;D

OlJarhead · April 15, 2013, 09:07:07 PM

Quote from: mesquite buckeye on April 15, 2013, 09:02:42 PM
Can you draw up one like I get? They are short, crooked, with rotten spots and plenty of iron.

I need to get one of those log stretcher, straightener, blowuper, rotfiller dealies. ;D

Nope :P I only see long straight pines and firs :D I can also pick them to fit the mill in the sweet spot..... ;D :D

drobertson · April 15, 2013, 09:40:32 PM

I would love to reply, but wait, and MM will. no sense in getting into another long winded thread on cutting. david

GDinMaine · April 15, 2013, 11:06:46 PM

I try to maximize the number of wide boards I get from a log. I cut 1x4 only from the first or narrowest of flitches or if I'm specifically asked to do so. The cants cut from different logs might bow opposite ways due to stress. When you put them on the mill together the first and last set of boards might end up different thickness. I tossed some 3/4 x 4 boards on the slab pile. Made me a bit mad but I'm still learning.

Although you said you only have perfect logs, so no stress ... in more then one way... ;)

Brucer · April 16, 2013, 12:10:47 AM

Don't forget the kerf!

If you are going to saw full dimension 2x6's, a stack of 5 will require a cant that's about 10-1/2" tall. (I allow 1/8" for the kerf, even though it's a little less.) Drop down 2-1/8" after each cut and finish with a 2" thick piece on the bed.

If the customer doesn't care if they are 1-7/8" thick, then you need to remember that the final cut will be 1-7/8" off the bed. You would start with a 9-7/8" cant and drop the head every two inches.

I always saw my 1" pieces at 7/8" unless the customer specifically wants a full 1". That makes it a lot easier to work down to my final cant dimension.

In a lot of cases the customer isn't going to worry about a 1/8" difference, as long as the pieces are consistent. On thing I started doing in my early days of sawing was to keep a log book showing the actual dimension that I sawed for each customer. Once in a while someone asks me to saw something "the same size as the stuff you did for me two years ago." Yeah, right ???

captain_crunch · April 16, 2013, 12:50:32 AM

Great sawing method same as with circle mill very little waste getting most out of log is what makes a sawyer

OlJarhead · April 16, 2013, 01:09:15 AM

Thanks all -- I forgot to mention I was cutting on the even numbers so with the desired cant at 11x11 with a 16" log I'd have to take off 2 1/2" per side -- so the first cut would be a 3/4" slab, then two 1" flitches. of course doing this means the 1" flitches are really 7/8 and so on.

OlJarhead · April 16, 2013, 01:31:25 AM

OK just to clarify something: I was joking about the logs I have! :P

lol -- heck, my faller sucks and never thinks about the mill!!! (ok the faller is me so I suck)....was looking at the last 16 footer I cut and realized I was pretty dumb! Had I cut off the first 8 feet the taper would have been contained a little, then the next 16 feet would have been much straighter! As it was I had 24+ inches at the base and 15 at the small end....I would fire my logger/faller but then I'd be firing myself.

So, note to self: don't be hasty!

Peter Drouin · April 16, 2013, 06:28:42 AM

Your a long way from hasty :D

kensfarm · April 16, 2013, 11:04:21 PM

I think the graphs you made would be great to show your customer. I've been cutting some dimensional lumber lately and have really been enjoying it.. I'll push the size of the cant as much as I can.. the ends will give you some rough cut stuff.. but it is def. usable in some projects. I cut the cants while they're still on the mill.. save all the edging for last so I can match the widths. Of coarse I now have a pile of edging that needs doing sitting by the mill. What is the customer using the lumber for? I think your plan looks good. Ken

OlJarhead · April 17, 2013, 12:41:41 AM

Thanks all,

The customer is looking for 2x6x16's for floor joists in a 16x24 shed he's building (I hope he understands span tables! DF#2 spans about 9feet for 2x6's which I'll be sure to mention) and I believe he's looking for 1x's for siding and sheeting. we meet up on Saturday to discuss the job and I've already been educating him a little bit -- mostly because I want to make sure I know what he wants/needs so I can offer suggestions. He's in a remote out of the way place but it's actually not far from our property! lol Funny how things work out! We'll stay at our cabin will milling at his -- I think we're 10 miles by mountain road apart from each other!

bandmiller2 · April 17, 2013, 07:14:40 AM

Don't I wish logs were perfect cylinders,its amazing how much loss from just a little sweep.Its hard to plan ahead cutting a log,what you want differs from what you get.Have a plan but be flexable and always have more logs than you think you'll need. Frank C.

Banjo picker · April 17, 2013, 05:58:08 PM

I am not familiar with how your ne wood behaves, but I would be afraid that the 2 x 6's would bow a bit, since the center of the log will be very close to the edge of the cant you intend to cut them out of....Banjo

Quebecnewf · April 17, 2013, 07:30:18 PM

Not to sure about sawing cants then putting them to one side to mill later in a bunch. First there is the labour of "putting to one side a large long heavy cant" then there is the labour of putting it back on the mill . Maybe in the time it was sitting it has warped slightly. This warp will be the wrong way against the other cant and cause that one to sit crooked. And so on and so on .

Logs always want to move a bit when you saw boards of them and on 16' it will make a difference.

Just my 2 cents worth

Quebecnewf

OlJarhead · April 17, 2013, 08:24:04 PM

Quote from: Banjo picker on April 17, 2013, 05:58:08 PM
I am not familiar with how your ne wood behaves, but I would be afraid that the 2 x 6's would bow a bit, since the center of the log will be very close to the edge of the cant you intend to cut them out of....Banjo

I'm a little confused now :( Don't you want to box the heart? Not split the pith?

I normally saw the cant straight down the line and dry as was milled (meaning I don't mill 2x6's for myself but rather 2x whatevers and make them what I want later) but it would seem to me that for a customer wanting 2x6's out of 15-16" logs you'd have to do something like this...right?

SAnVA · April 17, 2013, 08:25:49 PM

My thinking would be that in the time it takes you to move those timbers around you could have them sawed out and done with, but that's just my way of thinking!

OlJarhead · April 17, 2013, 08:39:12 PM

Good points on moving the cants back and forth.

Here are some options I've looked at:

This first one just shows how I could make two more 2x6's and only 2 2x4's. it would take some work to rotate the cant around to do it but would give more 2x6's to the customer per log.

This one I rotated the 2x6's to see if i could avoid the heart flexing the cant but don't know if this would be good -- by the way, I've never had a pine cant move on me but then I've not milled as much as most of you all!

I think I'll look at another option I just thought of (removing the two yellow cuts)....

customsawyer · April 17, 2013, 08:44:53 PM

If you look at the first pic there is two inches above the cant that is the same size as the cant. I would make a 4" drop there for my 2X4 and also get some more 2X4 on the opposite side of the cant. This will let you center the pith in your 2X6s. You will end up with a couple less 2X4 due to wane on the bottom of the cant but that is one of the things you deal with to get the best lumber.

OlJarhead · April 17, 2013, 11:00:20 PM

OK this might be over thinking things (smack me if I'm doing that please!) but I can get about 8 2x6's and 6 2x4's if I do this.

First two cuts are flitches that give me a 1x on top that may or may not yield much and a 2x10 that I can edge to a 2x6 and a 2x4
Next two cuts (3 &$) Basically does the same thing (and it should).

At this point I've moved towards a 10x10 cant instead of the 11x11 cant I originally thought I'd have to produce. The extra 1" is gained by adding it to the flitch and milling 2x's out of it.

The 5th cut will only yield a 2x and most likely only a 2x4 because I've pushed the cant down 1" to get the 2x6 in the first cuts.
The 6th cut slits the cant at 6" and allows me to get 2x6's out of the 4" side of the cant after splitting.

As pointed out earlier I might have movement in the cant when splitting it close to the heart. I'm not sure how bad this would be with Doug Fir that's really green....guess I might find out soon! The two 1x6's in the middle cant are there in order to box the heart, without them I split the heart which can't be good.

So, am I over doing it?

OlJarhead · April 17, 2013, 11:18:46 PM

OK correction! I already see one thing I did wrong -- actually a few.

The cut labeled '1st cut' is wrong -- it's #2 since I have to skim the bark first. It may or may not yield much in the 1" flitch.
The cut labeled '2nd cut' is actually the 3rd. Same goes for 3,4 and 5.

Then 6 is not even there really since you'd start by skimming the bark, then mill the 2x's down to the spot I labeled '6th cut' and then just rotate the cant to mill the last bits.