Pulpwood price

[CALJREICH]

We have 50 acres of mostly pine. I had a forester from a mill tell me they are paying $3 to $4 a ton for pulpwood. They cut and haul. We thought this was pretty low but really don't know. We live in Pennsylvania. I would appreciate advise on this from those of you that understand this business. Should I ask for more money or accept 3 or $4 a ton?
Thank you

[PAFaller]

Thats about average. If you want look at the PA DCNR timber sales page. Find a sale in your area and look at what they give for a value of the hardwood pulp. Even the bureau, which has some super nice timber, only values the pulp at a couple bucks a ton. With only limited numbers of buyers in a state as big as PA its hard to get much for it, and softwood is even tougher to move as most of the pulp and fiber-board mills run a much higher percentage of hardwood pulp to softwood pulp.

[CTL logger]

Where at in pa?  I have thousands of tons in pa standing because the papermill won't take it

[CALJREICH]

Spring Grove

[Kemper]

I pay $3.50 so I'd say they are right on the money.

We have 50 acres of mostly pine. I had a forester from a mill tell me they are paying $3 to $4 a ton for pulpwood. They cut and haul. We thought this was pretty low but really don't know. We live in Pennsylvania. I would appreciate advise on this from those of you that understand this business. Should I ask for more money or accept 3 or $4 a ton?
Thank you

[POC]

Could someone explain "pulpwood" to me?

[Ianab]

Could someone explain "pulpwood" to me?

Logs destined to be munched up into wood pulp for paper / cardboard. Usually logs that are too small for saw logs, or undesirable species. It's the lowest value logs. Locally it's more of a "byproduct", where any decent tree is going to make 3 or 4 good saw logs, and a top log that goes as pulpwood.

Ian

[SwampDonkey]

We have lots of "byproduct" standing on the stump up here due to past harvesting and basically very little spacing/weeding silviculture in pole stage and bigger and low value species like aspen and red maple. But we get 3 to 4 times that (the $3 ton quoted) for stumpage. Not to hard to find that a whole 100 acre lot of wood ends up at the pulp mill. Some lots the log volume is so low that they don't bother chasing pennies. It costs to sort and buck and make additional space for logs and mostly the price isn't paying for it, thus the reason. That and many don't educate themselves on how to buck properly for the market. I saw this working for the marketing board, logs pushed up in piles and all lengths under the sun, plus the sweep and defect.  ;)

[Ken]

But we get 3 to 4 times that (the $3 ton quoted) for stumpage.

Not to be too picky SD but the OP was talking about PINE pulp.  I don't think any contractors in NB are paying $9-12 ton for pine pulp unless they have some markets I haven't heard of.  $3/ton is too much considering we can only get about $26/ton delivered and the mill is 30+ miles from home.

[jwilly3879]

We are paying $5/cord for pine pulp which works out to $2.32/ton, $10/cord on hardwood and hemlock pulp which is just under $4/ton.

[SwampDonkey]

Ken you are right, I sometimes loose focus a bit. Although the topic of the thread never separated species, just pulp. ;D  I don't think we could get rid of pine pulp up here. But then again any pine I've seen cut that was low value in recent years was red pine going to Fort Fairfield, Maine for electric generation. About 40 minute drive from here. They were paying $29/ton I think the last I heard. So $5-8/ton is probably ball park stumpage. However, we typically get 20-30% of delivered price historically in this area. I know one contractor here had been cutting down 20 year old red pine plantations. I don't know why folks would do it, except for money, and it's not much. I've talked to Crabbe one time about what was going on and they said it's not very smart forest management. And Crabbe has a lot of red pine plantations. They said they won't be doing this in their pine. I mean, it's just peanuts to the landowner because a woodlot owner only has small acreage. It's most always on land that was very marginal for farming. Anyway rambling a bit again beyond the intend of the thread. ;D

[CALJREICH]

Thank you to everyone for replying. Very informative and I think I will feel good if I get $4 a ton. I will let you know what I end up getting. It is just junk trees anyway and the forester told me getting most of them off will allow the hardwood that is small and growing to take over.
So maybe in 80 years it will be valuable timber.

[POC]

But we get 3 to 4 times that (the $3 ton quoted) for stumpage.

Could you explain "stumpage"?  :-\

[Ken]

Stumpage is the monetary return to the landowner after harvesting trees.  Usually a percentage of the total value of the harvested product.

[Ianab]

Stumpage is the value of the standing tree, basically what the land owner receives.

Then you have the cost of harvesting and trucking, which all adds up to what the mill pays for the logs delivered.

With low grade pulp logs the harvesting and trucking are usually a large portion of the value, so not much left for the land owner.

But in OP's case, it sounds like they are getting some useful Improvement to their forest, AND actually receiving some payment for it. That sure beats having to PAY to have junk trees removed.

Ian

[SwampDonkey]

Yes, it sure is. And when you can get a landowner to see value in just removing that junk to help their woods, it's even better. A lot are just looking at the $$ and not the results. ;)

[thecfarm]

And POC $4 does not sound like much,it's not. The owner does not make much money on pulp. But the land owners trees will make money. Meaning what is left will grow better, As long as the removal of the pulp wood was done to help out the forest.

[uplander]

 My brothers chip mill in Arkansas is getting 70.00$ a ton delivered on hardwood chips right now.
Up from a high of 62.00$ a ton delivered from last year.

[uplander]

 That's not for pulp though. Actually I am not sure what the buyer uses it for.
His softwood chips go to OSB production.

[Oldmil]

$20-$30/ton for first thinning red pine pulp in northern WI.  Third thinning going for $40/ton.  I guess it all has to do with the local markets.  We have a few large pulp mills that use pine and a sawmill that uses the log material for making treated lumber.

Oldmil

[SwampDonkey]

That's a new one, pulp is one price here at the same mill, but price varies by mill and we have some mills paying for truck zoning. Nothing to do with age. And whose going to keep track of timing of harvest whether the wood was from 1st or 3rd thinning? Would have to be all company land. :D

[uplander]

 Talked to brother this morning. The hardwood chips DO go for pulp. It gets used for an expensive paper
manufactured for high gloss photo printing.

[Oldmil]

It all has to do with the size of the wood.  First thinning (in N. Wis) is 6-8" dbh.  3rd thinning is 12-18" dbh.  First thinning goes strictly to the pulp mill.  Third thinning goes to the sawmill and some to pulp.  Big difference in price between 1st and 3rd around here.

Oldmil

[SwampDonkey]

Your talking about two different products, two different mills. Around here the idea for red pine is utility poles. It obvious to me size is the factor, not thinning regime. There is no way to track it with confidence unless it is company or public land. I think 1st, 2nd, 3rd thinning is an industry term that must be on some management plan or certification scheme so they can say this wood is sustainable because it's from thinnings.  If off woodlots, you could never get that kind of organization or commitment from the majority. So when they get private wood, they can mix it in with their own and give it a tag name, wood from 1st, 2nd, 3rd thinning.

[Oldmil]

Yes, this is public forest so there are records of the number of times the stands have been thinned.  We regularly refer to a thinning by which entry it is (1st, 2nd, 3rd).   I guess I could classify it by dbh or age.  Regardless, pine pulp harvests (<8"dbh typically) go for around $20+/ton around here.  We currently have a sale which is part 3rd thinning (12"-16" dbh) and part first thinning (<8") that sold for $40/ton.

Oldmil