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Started by mainiac, April 03, 2013, 07:50:03 PM

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mainiac

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on the new diesels in todays 3/4 and srw one ton pickups? Have never owned a diesel pickup, but am considering replacing my gasser with one this year. Or should I just stay with a new gasser? I use mine for plowing, 2yd sander, and towing a lawn mower and dump trailer.

Thanks
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.

bill m

IMHO don't waste your money. It's not that the diesels are bad it's just that I don't think you will ever save any money. Most diesel options cost about $7000 more than a gas engine and with the cost of diesel fuel being more then gas I don't see any savings.
Example:
30,000 miles a year
gas 15 mpg       diesel  20 mpg
$3.80 / gal        $4.20 / gal.
$7600 / year      $6300 / year
It would take 5.3 years to see any savings
These figures are from my location and mileage estimates are from local dealer advertisements.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

chevytaHOE5674

Diesel maintenance is also more costly, and the new diesels have all kinds of emissions equipment that have really cut their fuel economy back as well.

Dave Shepard

To justify it on a strictly financial basis, you'd have to work it pretty hard for the fuel saving to make up for the initial cost, I think. Now if you are open to other means of justification, it's not too hard to talk oneself into a diesel. Yes, there is the initial investment, however when that truck gets sold, you get a lot of that back in a higher resale value than the gas version of the same truck. I don't know of any gas engine in todays trucks that will tow like a diesel, and if it does, then there is something wrong with the diesel.  :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

woodandtractors

I bought my first diesel in late '08 having had 3('85,'89,'99) new 454 powered one-ton 2WD dump trucks. All 3 got 8mpg loaded with 1.5 cords of wood or 9cu. yds. of bark mulch.Running empty about 10mpg. The diesel,which at 9800lbs. with driver,is easily the heaviest truck I've owned. When new it got 10mpg loaded,12mpg empty and towing a flat trailer. The Duramax/Allison combo cost $10,000(sticker)and came equipped with the most poorly thought out emissions system imagineable. I should have bought a new 2007,but didn't do any research first-all I knew was the biggest gas engine offered was a 6-litre,which makes a nice pickup engine but I wanted to haul a load. If you love POWER,and can pay for it,buy a diesel. The emission systems have been improved(less troublesome)but I,m not sure about the mileage.
Mike
Still plays with tractors-IH of course!

bill m

Dave, you are absolutely correct about resale. As for towing I think it depends on what you are towing. If it's a landscape trailer with lawn mowers I think a gas engine would be fine but a bigger trailer 10 - 12,000 lbs. gvw or bigger a diesel may be the best option.
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VictorH

I have a dodge 2500 with the Cummins diesel, 6 speed manual.  I would not buy or pay for a new one - but bought a 5 yr old truck and love it.  I went from getting 8-12 mpg from my gasser dodge to getting 16-20 from this one.

dukndog

I have a '03 F250 and the one thing I didn't see mentioned is the extended life of the diesel. Most average 300k miles. Biggest problem I've had is broken windshield, front hub bearings and seat wore out!!
When I got it, diesel was $.50 cheaper a gallon than gas, then the govt. went to the low sulphur diesel which drove the price up. Now they have the newer diesel law with the "hippie juice" additive which is required on all new trucks. The left over '12 Rams don't require the additive, but all the trucks now do from '13 forward.
I use mine daily and hope it lasts another 10 years before I need to get another one.
WM LT-15G25 w/PwrFeed, Mahindra 3510, Husky 385xp, Stihl MS261 and a wife who supports my hobby!!

chevytaHOE5674

If maintained correctly any newer gas truck should have the same life expectancy as a diesel. There are tons and tons of newer GM 5.3 and 6.0L trucks with 300K plus miles on them and the motors have never been opened up. Years ago that argument was valid but anymore gassers just keep on running.

celliott

On the longevity issue, here in the northeast I think that's a moot point. Unless you put ALOT of miles on your vehicle every year, or don't drive it in the winter, you are more likely to have rust issues before you actually "wear" an engine out, gas or diesel. I've seen 2007ish trucks with the bed already rusted through. Road salt is bad news, I'd rather drive on packed snow and sand.
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
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Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

log cutter

Well I will stay with the diesels. My 97 dodge 2500 has 469,000 miles on it and still going strong. We have three and between them 1.2 million miles. If you are towing heavy loads an exhaust brake will save your brakes. I have several friends who have more miles than i do.
1990 with over 500.000 miles. 2 97's 1 with 469,000 and 1 with 313,000 
Timbco 475E

sawguy21

We have an 05 Ram six pack diesel and love it for towing our small fifth wheel. We can run all day on one tank of fuel and have yet to find a hill that makes it grunt. I would never go back to gas
As a daily driver it has it's drawbacks. Mileage is likely on par with a similar sized gasser and with the price of fuel it gets hard on the wallet. It rides a little stiff empty and the missus does not like parking it. Quite frankly I am scared to let her. :D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

tyb525

Durability and longevity is still better with diesel. 300K is just breaking the engine in, especially with a Cummins. I know a guy who tows fifth wheels for a living with his early 2000's F350 powerstroke, he's got over 500k on the engine now and it's still running strong. If you're doing real work with the truck, can't beat a diesel. The torque is so much better. Plus the resale value is better.

If you're just commuting in the truck not hauling much, gas might be better. But IMO, diesels just have a bigger "cool factor" than gas. I know that doesn't mean anything in the real world, but I guess that's the guy in me ;)

The downside is the newer diesels with emissions crap. I would try to find one made before all that was a requirement.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

mainiac

Thank you for all the replies people. I need to clarify a couple of points. I am buying a 2013 new truck extended cab 4x4. If I go gas, I am getting either 4.10(chevy) or 4.30(ford) gears or I am buying a diesel. While I do haul a 14k gvw dump trailer, it is short runs delivering firewood mostly under 20 miles loaded. I run a 9'6" V plow and plow mostly residentials. I deliver 75-100 cord of firewood each year and now the wife and I are looking for a camper.

The real question I have I guess is for the life long diesel enthusiast, would you still choose a new diesel of today or a gasser with how they have advanced them?

My current truck is a 2009 Chevy 3500hd 4x4 with the 6.0 gas with 3.73 gears. I never really checked mpg with it, but if I had to guess, I am around 10. Maybe 8 loaded.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.

snowstorm

Quote from: mainiac on April 04, 2013, 05:24:30 AM
Thank you for all the replies people. I need to clarify a couple of points. I am buying a 2013 new truck extended cab 4x4. If I go gas, I am getting either 4.10(chevy) or 4.30(ford) gears or I am buying a diesel. While I do haul a 14k gvw dump trailer, it is short runs delivering firewood mostly under 20 miles loaded. I run a 9'6" V plow and plow mostly residentials. I deliver 75-100 cord of firewood each year and now the wife and I are looking for a camper.

The real question I have I guess is for the life long diesel enthusiast, would you still choose a new diesel of today or a gasser with how they have advanced them?

My current truck is a 2009 Chevy 3500hd 4x4 with the 6.0 gas with 3.73 gears. I never really checked mpg with it, but if I had to guess, I am around 10. Maybe 8 loaded.
i heard you were looking at new trucks. you know what i think ford and diesel. i tried a new 6.7 ford they go real well. plowing you will use about half the fuel with diesel vs gas. the ford trans is yrs ahead of gm

mainiac

Thanks snowstorm,

Yes, I know your beliefs. You say Ford is ahead of GM for transmissions. Does that include Allison transmissions?

Did I hear that you were bragging up the Ford 6.2 gasser? I had to ask if we were talking about you a couple of times and that we were talking about the 6.2.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.

snowstorm

everyone seems to like the allison but it only comes with the dmax dosent it? i havent driven the 6.2 ford gas. you found the ford to be 2k less than a gm is that right? where was the best price on the ford? rockland?

mainiac

The one price quote(thus far) on Ford has been from commercial truck sales at Quirk. $38,500 for a F350(srw) extended cab 4x4 automatic diesel. Plow prep, tow prep including tow mirrors, power/heated mirrors, power windows, vinal floor, and (what concerns me) 3.55 gears(lowest I can get with the diesel without getting a F450). I do not know what it has for a seat yet.

Chevy is a 2500hd with same options/set up, but I would need to add air bags for $40,500 from Dutch. Dmax with Allison(only setup I can get) with 3.73 gears. Only difference between 3500hd and 2500hd is one leaf spring in the rear stack.

Exact replacement of my truck is $30,000.

I have not started pushing them for best price as of yet, but will play them all against each other when I get there.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.

snowstorm

try the dealer in rockland. dont worry about the 3.55 rear. the auto trans is a 6 speed. my 5sp auto is geared way lower in first than my older 4 sp auto. i know someone with 2 of the new 6.7 ford diesels. a f350 and a f550 he is very impressed

isawlogs

 Before jumping into a newer diesel I would have to really crunch the numbers hard. Also would need to get together with a few of my deisel mechanic friends and pick there brains over this. I have a power stroke at the moment and I am very happy with the torque it has with a loaded deck over trailer. I am just waiting to warmer weather to see if how good fuel millage will get.      move_it move_it
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Norm

Depends on how you are going to use it. I have the new 6.7 diesel snowstorm talked about and average 18mpg doing 60mph on the hwy. I haul really heavy loads and have a buddy with a ford with the big gas engine. I can out tow him hands down and actually burn less fuel than he does. As for durability and ride the new fords with the 6.7 can't be beat, mine rides as good as my escalade. The kicker is upfront costs for the engine and fuel is higher priced. If you're not going to be working it hard I'd look at the gasser but I'm a diesel truck guy and always will be.

isawlogs

 Norm, how is that diesel's fuel millage in the winter compared to the summer, any difference?
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

chevytaHOE5674

My dad has a 2500hd with a 6.0L and a 6 speed auto trans behind it. Empty he averages close to 20mpg at 60mph and when he needs to tow 12k lbs it gets the job done without any trouble.

I have an old IH 6.9 diesel that I built up with a 5 speed manual behind it. I average 21-22mpg empty at 60mph, and can tow that 12k lbs with much less effort and get better fuel economy while towing.

But the only reason I have a diesel is that I only use the truck for towing or hauling something. The truck stays parked for weeks on end if nothing heavy needs to get moved. Daily driving it is just a money waster between the more expensive fuel and diesel "quirks" to have to deal with. For lighter duty towing/hauling, running around, and plowing snow my gasser gets the job done easier and cheaper.

Norm

I haven't noticed any difference Marcel.

This engine uses UREA to meet the clean air standards and the harder you run it the more it uses but I have not really noticed a significant difference doing so in my experience after using it for over 2 years now. I run this truck hard and don't baby it, we haul hay on a 35' gooseneck overloaded and haul equipment the same way (we are in a very rural area). I have not had one thing go wrong with it in those 2 years.

OlJarhead

New diesels can't be chipped (ok they can but it voids warranty) and must have the additive added at fuel up time (more $$ more pain in the rear etc etc)....

I think it's better to get a slightly used model because it's cheaper, more likely to get better mileage and did I say cheaper? lol
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