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Thin ends on LT 40

Started by highleadtimber16, May 25, 2017, 12:16:11 AM

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highleadtimber16

Hey guys, I've having trouble with the end of my board/cant being thin. I'm not sure what has changed, seeing as I'm set up on concrete. I do have the fine adjustment outriggers. My moveable bed rail measures properly from the blade to the rail but the end of a 16 footer is an 1/8" off. There is an 1/8"-3/16" gap between the rail and the cant. This has been happening all day on various logs, so stress has been ruled out. I tried adjusting my FAO, but I cant go to high with nearly picking up my 12" extension. I know the fix is looking me right in the face but I can't figure it out right now. Any tips are appreciated!
2011 Wood-Mizer LT 40 hyd w/ 12' Extension,
EG 200 Wood-Mizer
Cutting Old Growth Cedar from Queen Charlotte Islands.

DARRELL1972

I have to ask the most obvious question first is bark or dust getting trapped between can't and bed at 1 end?
95lt40hd
74 8k windham forklift
2018 eg100

47sawdust

I see you recently installed new roller guides(another post).It might be worth a look to see if they might be the cause.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

ladylake



Put more pressure on the front and rear jacks, I wouldn't rule out stress, are the ends of the boards or slabs rising up very much,  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Chuck White

It sounds to me like STRESS in the log/cant, flip the cant 180°!

If the measurements from the bed rails to the blade are all the same, I can't figure what else it could be!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Dave Shepard

If you didn't change the jacks before this started, then I would tend to rule out the mill. 16' is where i start to see a lot of stress issues, even in white pine, and i don't know what you saw over in your side if the continent. You could just be in a batch of logs with a lot of tension.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

terrifictimbersllc

Not saying it is what you are experiencing but you are describing a common happening even when all is right with mill and alignment. Could be log stress, where the cant bends during and/or after each cut.  Or, your mill rail is not straight. Don't be alarmed at this, it is normal.  One can adjust the mill rail sighting it by eye with the head at one end and then the other, and adjusting the FAOs accordingly.   Or one can look along the cant at the cut just made, seeing if it is crowned or dipped.  But to do the latter one must be able to distinguish rail straightness from cant stress.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

grouch

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on May 25, 2017, 09:54:23 AM
Not saying it is what you are experiencing but you are describing a common happening even when all is right with mill and alignment. Could be log stress, where the cant bends during and/or after each cut.  Or, your mill rail is not straight. Don't be alarmed at this, it is normal.  One can adjust the mill rail sighting it by eye with the head at one end and then the other, and adjusting the FAOs accordingly.   Or one can look along the cant at the cut just made, seeing if it is crowned or dipped.  But to do the latter one must be able to distinguish rail straightness from cant stress.

Could it be the rail bows somewhere around the 16 ft mark only when the weight of the head is there? (I don't have an LT40 or even know how long they are, so if this is a silly question, I won't mind the laughter).
Find something to do that interests you.

Jim_Rogers

You have to identify if it is the log or the mill. I had it happen to me. I knew it was the mill because the tech I called said it was stress in the log, but I dis-agreed. I knew it was in the mill as I was edging boards and the same 1/8" or more was in the board from end to end. Either the end was smaller then the middle or the middle was smaller then the ends. I can't remember which way it was right now.

But if it's stress in the log then when you edge a board the board should be true from end through the middle to the other end. All the same dimension.

If it is stress in the log/cant then you will need to make one cut and then roll 180° and trim off anything and then cut the next piece.

I determined that it was in my mill and the way I did that was I ran a string down the top rail that the rollers ride on over a 3/4" block of wood. That is both ends of the string were 3/4" off the rail.
Next you take another 3/4" thick block of wood and try and slide it under the string in the middle. If it moves the string up then the mill is "crowned" in the middle. If there is a big gap between the block and the string the ends are up too high.

Most mills are very stiff and usually this doesn't happen very often.

In my case the outrigger foot was frozen to the ground and had caused the middle to crown. I released the hitch end out rigger pin and the mill popped up a bit. Lots of stress on the pin. Once I released it, the mill was straight again.

I don't know if this will help you or not, I doubt your mill is frozen to the ground, but the method used to verify that the rail is straight should work for you.

Good luck,

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

derhntr

I have had same issue a time or two. Normally caused in my case from soft ground and jack legs settling. I did the same as Jim used a string and shims and leveled mill.
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

highleadtimber16

Thanks for the replies. I realized this morning I was chasing my tail. Every time I raised the last FAO I would then tighten the other two closest outriggers. This would then push the rail down again, then I would jack up the last outrigger, and so on. The FAO are loosening themselves, I'm going to have to make some locks. I believe Peter Drouin has some on his mill. Woodmizer suggested buying some cheap chinese 1 1/8" wrenches and bending them 90 degrees, and leaving them on each nut, acting as a lock.
2011 Wood-Mizer LT 40 hyd w/ 12' Extension,
EG 200 Wood-Mizer
Cutting Old Growth Cedar from Queen Charlotte Islands.

Dave Shepard

That sounds like a fitting use for cheap wrenches.  ;D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

GAB

Quote from: highleadtimber16 on May 25, 2017, 12:16:11 AM
Hey guys, I've having trouble with the end of my board/cant being thin. I'm not sure what has changed, seeing as I'm set up on concrete. I do have the fine adjustment outriggers. My moveable bed rail measures properly from the blade to the rail but the end of a 16 footer is an 1/8" off. There is an 1/8"-3/16" gap between the rail and the cant. This has been happening all day on various logs, so stress has been ruled out. I tried adjusting my FAO, but I cant go to high with nearly picking up my 12" extension. I know the fix is looking me right in the face but I can't figure it out right now. Any tips are appreciated!

You do not state what type of log you are trying to saw so this may not be appropriate for your situation.
I was sawing some very wet pine one morning and had the same problem.  What it was is the log was pretty much centered on the 4 fixed bed rails and the ends were drooping and the thinner the cant got the more it drooped.  The solution was to make sure that the 2 support rails that are moveable are positioned such that they support the cant.
Hope this helps,
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Crusarius

So, if I read that right. The bed is actually flexing with a log on it? That is kinda surprising. I don't remember what size log but it wasn't very big? Was it?

Dave Shepard

WM beds are buying with a crown in them to offset the deflection caused by the weight of the head and the log.  If you set up on a flat piece of concrete and put the standard jacks all in the same hole, only the two end jacks will touch. When you move the head to the middle of the frame, the two central jacks will be touching the concrete. When setting up a WM, you are supposed to put the most weught on the end jacks to preload the frame. It's a system that works very well, if you follow the instructions. Fine adjust outriggers make fine tuning this system much easier and faster.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Peter Drouin

 

  

  

 


 
I also welded nuts on the bottom, so when I'm set up on Ice the Mill, log and me will not slide away. Don't ask how I know that .  smiley_biggrin01
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

4x4American

Quote from: highleadtimber16 on May 25, 2017, 11:40:39 PM
Thanks for the replies. I realized this morning I was chasing my tail. Every time I raised the last FAO I would then tighten the other two closest outriggers. This would then push the rail down again, then I would jack up the last outrigger, and so on. The FAO are loosening themselves, I'm going to have to make some locks. I believe Peter Drouin has some on his mill. Woodmizer suggested buying some cheap chinese 1 1/8" wrenches and bending them 90 degrees, and leaving them on each nut, acting as a lock.


WM sells the locking tabs brandy new.  I think I paid around $40 for a set of six and picked them up at a show to avoid shipping.
Boy, back in my day..

GAB

Quote from: Crusarius on May 26, 2017, 11:35:30 AM
So, if I read that right. The bed is actually flexing with a log on it? That is kinda surprising. I don't remember what size log but it wasn't very big? Was it?

If you are referring to what I wrote that is not what I meant.  In my case the ends of the cant were drooping downwards and the thinner the cant got the more it drooped.  If you use the two moveable bed rails, by that I mean make sure the ends of the cant are supported, then the problem goes away.
Sorry If I confused you.
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

ladylake

Quote from: Crusarius on May 26, 2017, 11:35:30 AM
So, if I read that right. The bed is actually flexing with a log on it? That is kinda surprising. I don't remember what size log but it wasn't very big? Was it?


  The bed is going to flex on any mill and has to be supported properly .   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

LeeB

The log is not the only thing that will flex the bed. That big heavy thing that runs up and down the rails will cause a little flex too.  :D
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: LeeB on May 27, 2017, 05:37:47 AM
The log is not the only thing that will flex the bed. That big heavy thing that runs up and down the rails will cause a little flex too.  :D

But it's so hard keeping the Goat on the ground! You know how they love to climb...

Herb

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