Believe it or not!

[treebucker]

Someone I know is installing 300+ sf of Brazilian Cherry (Jatoba) flooring bought at a big box store. The insert said it was 'Made in China'.

What's wrong with this picture? How many miles shipping is that?

[Ianab]

yup.. I believe it.

Strangly enough though, when logs are exported from NZ it's trucking the logs the 50 or so miles to the port thats the main cost. Once they are on a ship they might go anyplace around the Pacific. Once they are on a ship (or in a container) a few thousand miles. The loading / unloading / paperwork cost is the same whether they go 50 miles or 5,000.

I think a lot of the construction pine sold around Califonia is shipped from NZ.  :

It does make you wonder why it's not more efficient to make flooring out of local wood though.  ???

Cheers

Ian

[Tom]

"The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence."

When you have enough money, or, image is important and, in your minds eye, is derived from owning something different or with an exotic name, having something from a different country makes you sophisticated.

We see it right here in the south when marketing tells consumers that "southern hardwoods are no good".

[TexasTimbers]

"The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence."

I think that's what drives a huge chunk of internet sales.

[Murf]

We see it right here in the south when marketing tells consumers that "southern hardwoods are no good".

I don't know about your hardwoods, but I'd kill for some of that nice pine sliced into wide planks for some floors here need redone.

I just missed out on some old sinkers they pulled out of a lake near my summer place, 100+ year old white pines, most 36+" and 12' - 16' long, been down with da fish ever since they was cut.  :-\

[brdmkr]

We see it right here in the south when marketing tells consumers that "southern hardwoods are no good".

I work with a fellow that had cabinets custom made from PA cherry.  He said the cabinet maker went to PA to pick out the lumber himself, because southern cherry was not any good .  I think it is funny to look on 'other sites' at the lumber wanted ads.  So many are wanting cherry or red oak, etc. (large volumes too) and the purchasers are located in the North :.  I often wonder if the PA lumber dealer might have sold the cabinet maker some cherry that came from GA ???

[treebucker]

So, it was cut somewhere in Jatoba's native range in Central/South America, shipped to China and finished into flooring, shipped to North America then trucked across country to end up here. How does putting China in the loop save money?

I prefer local/regional. It also seems fine to import when trees are scarce/nonexistent. I will even agree to imported exotics so long as their qualities are unique, but this case is out of hand. Somewhere the global powers-that-be decided that this was a smart use of our natural/energy resources. The retail price does not include the energy that was wasted and the 3rd-party (innocent?) ignorant unknowingly pay the price for these decisions.

Thanks for letting me. vent smiley_smelly_skunk

brdmkr said:

I often wonder if the PA lumber dealer might have sold the cabinet maker some cherry that came from GA

:D

[beenthere]

Might be that the ship is sitting just off-shore, loading the logs, processing them into kiln dry flooring, and unloading the product on our shores (heard once that the Japanese had many such ships at sea, just processing logs into products, be it plywood, lumber, particleboard, flooring, furniture, etc. Maybe the chinese do too.).

[Larry]

Well let's see...take my walnut logs and cants to American Walnut up the road bout 15 miles and they turn the raw product into some of the finest flooring made.  Or I can take the same walnut logs and cants to Missouri Walnut and get a little more money.  Those logs and cants find there way to China and return here as flooring.  Sell for bout the same amount.

Only been going on with walnut for 20 years???  China took the trade away from Japan.

I laugh all the way to the bank when I ship my no good southern basswood into the prime basswood states along our northern border.  But I know my Missouri walnut is 10 times better than that rotten stuff coming out of the deep south. :D :D :D :D

[TexasTimbers]

Shipping to China is not all that high. There are enough boats coming and going now that you can practically ride a bike across the ocean to China. Although you can't haul alot of freight on a bike.

[TexasTimbers]

Hey Larry i know what you mean about the walnut. I posted some poics of some real ugly Texas Walnut one time. Everyone said it was some of the ugliuest Walnut they had seen. Wish my puter had not crashed I lost all the pics.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 

Might be that the ship is sitting just off-shore, loading the logs, processing them into kiln dry flooring, and unloading the product on our shores (heard once that the Japanese had many such ships at sea, just processing logs into products, be it plywood, lumber, particleboard, flooring, furniture, etc. Maybe the chinese do too.).

  I agree with THIS statement 1000%. I heard this several years ago, and, saw some photos, where they had logs AND lumber stacked on board.  Problem is, that is DEPLETING the RAINFOREST, lumber. Not like what I get here. This is where Fred is waaay ahead of the game, here.

  I got plans too.

[JimBuis]

The China part of the world economy is easier to understand when you understand that China has free labor to run its economy.  This is the primary reason China will not release its "political prisoners", "prisoners of religious persecution", and many other categories of innocent people who have been imprisoned.  Without the millions of people in prison working in their rehabilitation factories, they will lose their economic advantage.

Jim

[Ron Wenrich]

We sell logs to Germany, Italy and China.  They are paying more than the locals, so that's where it goes.  Chinese may export to us as furniture.

Don't get too hyped up about the "free" Chinese labor.  How long has China been pursuing the one child policy?  20 years?  What happens when their labor force drops dramatically due to these lower birth rates?  Their labor costs will rise.  Their competition is India, where we are now outsourcing our service industry.

[Steven A.]

Where I live are a lot of Amish families. Good  people, fine neighbors, hard workers, I like and respect them.

One of my english [thats non- amish] friends told me a funny story about going to an *english* farm auction. There was an Amish man there with his horses and wagon sitting on the road selling Amish chickens.

My friend said "He sold them all, everyone likes those good Amish chickens. 
Funny thing is I was at a different auction yesterday and that same Amish man was there BUYING chickens. Heck, I bet those chickens had only been Amish for about a day!"


Heh heh...... could be similar with lumber...................

[Brad_S.]

When I was growing up in the 70's, the Northeast was feeling the pain of industries closing and moving to the south. "Labor, land and energy are cheaper" was the corporate mantra. Now the same thing is happening everywhere in the U.S., jobs are leaving for foreign lands as corporations chant the same mantra. Many of the early loses where to Japan, but now Japan feels the pinch as it all shifts to China and India. Some day, they too will be the losers as another shift occurs. Like Sonny and Cher said, "and the beat goes on."

[TexasTimbers]

After China and India it's all going to go to the new moon colonies.
Those first moon pilgrims will be so excited to have won a seat in the worldwide lottery for seats on those first moonshots that they aren't going to stop and consider what a tight spot they have gotten themselves into.

Of all the peoples in history they are going to be exploited by those who supply their necessities.
For the first time in history labor rates will be both out of this world AND dirt cheap.

[rebocardo]

> 300+ sf of Brazilian Cherry (Jatoba)

So ... how does one check the bonafides of it really being B.Cherry vs. cherry stained pine, if you know what I mean :-D  Could it be from Peru or is it cherry at all?

> How does putting China in the loop save money?

$0.50 an hour or not paying for the labor at all in prison camps.

Plus, lax enviromental rules, though if you process it on the high seas and dump everything overboard you pollute nothing other then the place where we get something like 85% of our O2 to breathe in the top 2" of the water. Or something like that.
;)
 

[logwalker]

I am not buying into the concept of high seas flooring processors. I am sure we would have heard about these before now. If somebody has a link to one then bring it out. I would like to read more about it if it does exist. I do know that China is paying top dollar for our Pacific Red Alder in the NW and shipping it back and making cabinet parts for our consumption. There is still a lot of labor and expense in the process. How does it make sense.

My solution would be to send our labor unions over there and force them to organize the workers and pay a decent wage or else we slap huge tariffs across the board on all imports. In that way they could at least afford to buy some of our manufactured goods and we would become more competitive. 

Does that make sense? Joe

[Steven A.]

My solution would be to send our labor unions over there and force them to organize the workers and pay a decent wage or else we slap huge tariffs across the board on all imports. In that way they could at least afford to buy some of our manufactured goods and we would become more competitive. 

Does that make sense? Joe

Tell us how our labor unions are going to go to China and organize the workers with the Chinese form of government. While you are at it tell us how these tariffs are going to work in a global market.

Does your post make sense?
In an dream world it might.
In the real world, it does not.

[Brad_S.]

Ior else we slap huge tariffs across the board on all imports.

China is carrying most of the paper on our $4+ trillion dollar debt. No one in government has the nads to rock the boat for fear of the banker calling in their loan.

[logwalker]

You gotta love this forum! ;)

I am saying that the reason we lost our manufacturing base in the first place was because our labor force got so powerful that they priced themselves out of the world market with wages and benefits.

Now granted the politburo bosses aren't going to let the unions happen. But what would happen if we formed a Pan-American block much as they did in Europe and stopped this idiotic trade policy we have with Asia. In reality you can't even call it trade. That would imply that it was both directions which it isn't.

And do you really think they would call the loan on the largest economy in the world. I don't. The truth is they probably can't. The 4 trillion $ debt, to use your figures, are in the form of Govt. Bonds. You don't just call those instruments when you get P.O.ed at someone. They have terms of months to years. When they did come due just print the money and give it to them. See how they like that! 

And doesn't China have a huge stake in this too. You don't take the loss of  you're biggest trading partner without suffering setbacks.

If we don't smarten up here very soon it will be us working for 50 cents an hour.

If we are truly a world power we have to act like one. What the Republicrats are doing is coming very close to treason in my n.s.h. opinion. Personally I don't care if I ever see the "Made In China" label again. Between the US, Canada, and the rest of central and South America you're DANG right we could survive on our own. Maybe it is time we tried. All we could do is fall flat on our faces. We are doing it anyway as I see it.

Respectfully, Joe

[Dana]

A few years ago I was talking with a rather large mill owner in Mancelona about the price of maple. He mentioned alot of the maple was being purchased by the Chinese, with the product being resold here. I had expressed disbelief that they could buy here, ship to China, reship to America.                                                                            He said they didn't. They shipped it to the west coast,  loaded it onto factory ships that went into International waters (10 miles I believe) and processed it there.
This guy's story seems to be in agreement with Beenthere and FlaDeadheader. ;)

[Fla._Deadheader]

My input was about Japanese Ships. Same old, same old.  :

[Warren]

China is becoming a market force affecting wood products even here in Kentucky.  The guy selling WM Vacuum Kilns on ebay from Liberty KY lost his contract for drying turning squares (ballusters) to China.  The logger over the hill from me has shipped a couple containers of cedar to China in the past year.  I can only imagine the impact on the West Coast...

Warren