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Author Topic: Kinetic splitters and production  (Read 3176 times)

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Offline barbender

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2021, 08:21:33 AM »
Wolfe Ridge have an excellent reputation. I think with any of Chris' splitters, the bottleneck will be the person feeding it, not the splitter.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Nathan4104

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2021, 09:10:44 AM »
As has been mentioned already, your whole process shape/design could be costing time somewhere else that the splitter won’t overcome no matter how nice it is.  Personally I think any with a log lift or crane for those massive chunks would help your productivity. Or a skid steer mounted/operated one to break them up into smaller pieces to then handle on a smaller splitter.  So many ways, so little time, so much back ache :)   
A conveyor off the splitter would be a key part just to keep the wood away from you and either into your drying pile or direct into the trailer for delivery.  
Just remember too that a 6 way or more wedge is gonna need pretty serious power, which means bigger everything, and potentially slower cycle times without lots of $$ into it, then the question of other efficiencies come into question along your line!  

Offline Upstatewoodchuc

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2021, 09:16:51 AM »
Wolfe Ridge have an excellent reputation. I think with any of Chris' splitters, the bottleneck will be the person feeding it, not the splitter.
I'm really liking what I've seen, the build quality looks like something I would fab up, they have a dealer in VT 2 hours from me. I may have to check them out in person. 
Current collection: Husky 3120xp,  372xp, 365, husky 55, homelite xl12. Michigan 85 wheel loader, Ford 8n with loader and forks. Farmall super C, 1988 international dump truck, John Deere 440ICD dozer, 19ft equipment trailer, 40 ton TSC splitter, modified dieder splitter with 4 way.

Offline PoginyHill

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2021, 10:22:36 AM »
Built-Rite has similar quality splitters and other firewood equipment. Splitters are designed differently than Wolfe-Ridge - not better or worse, just different. They are made in southern Vermont - Ludlow.
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Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2021, 11:33:04 AM »
For the initial quartering of oversized blocks a skid steer or 3pt splitter is safer, easier, and faster than either a horizontal or vertical free standing splitter you are trying to wrestle with. If the logs are just "big" a Supersplit Kinetic will handle the quartered chunks just fine. If you have lots of sawn off limb knots and crotches not so much . The machine you already have will work for what the Supersplit struggles with. 

I personally went through the whole cycle starting with my box store horizontal/vertical I already had for my my personal use. Next I added skid steer mounted for giant blocks after I injured my shoulder trying wrestle an oak block up to my vertical splitter. Then I added a Supersplit Heavy Duty Kinetic, Eastonmade 22-28, Dyna SC14 Processor, and Eastonmade hydraulic elevator.  They all have there strengths and weaknesses.

I fed mine quiet a bit from logs I cut off and upgraded. Lots of double hearts, crooks, metal etc. For the money spent the kinetic and the elevator is the most production gain for the least money and I think is probably the sweet spot. The big splitters will drink the fuel. Kinetic just purrs along at a fast idle and won't burn a gallon of gas in day. A 20hp+ multiwedge splitter may burn a gallon an hour if your pushing it.

When I first bought the kinetic I built a large extra heavy "table" that I used as a staging area for my blocks. I loaded the "table" with skid steer thus eliminated lifting. I would park the wheel loader bucket in front of the kinetic splitter would "load" the bucket as it split. That got rid of having to toss or re-handle the splits. Mostly sliding and aligning instead of lifting or throwing. The multiwedge hydro really shines in middle size stuff or boiler wood customers where you can run one pass and not worry about re-splits or uniform size so much. Processors are great but it can be a chore to find a steady diet of poles to keep them fed and the margins can get pretty slim in some markets.

Online mike_belben

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2021, 11:37:28 AM »
I already have my hillbilly limb cutting station for stuff not needing split.. which is atleast 50% of the fiber that TSI produces.  Its the fastest possible way to process limbs with mininal human effort and only a saw.. Just the right balance of very cheap, pretty easy, pretty fast. i dont want to run limbs through a processor and be burning fuel, waiting on a pusher cycle for nothing with stuff thats just going around a knife.







Something like this.   Probably can figure a way to do it with just 2 conveyors once the site work is finished and processor built to really stare at. Hopefully sub 3 years for that station to be constructed and under a high tin roof.


I forgot to include my old conventional vert/horiz 5" thirteen horse splitter parked between the reject pile and the corner of a conveyor so that whatever gets kicked out of the processor lands next to the conventional and tossed back into the conveyor stream by hand when there is enough to run a batch.
Isaiah 63:10

Online mike_belben

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2021, 12:14:52 PM »
 better layout for loader and forklift access. Dont wanna back into opposing decks. 



Isaiah 63:10

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2021, 04:06:31 PM »
I've seen vid clips of a couple of young guys looked to be under 25 feeding kinetic splitters .Big  husky dudes right off the farm who could  eat  hay still the bale tied with wire .Doesn't take them long to spit a cord .Fast forward 30 plus years and see how well they do working by themselves .If I were a betting man  I'd wager not nearly as fast .
Now I'm no spring chicken and 73 years old .I can get a cord cord and a half a day if it were chunked up .Split and stacked at not near at break neck speed and still relax on my patio under an umbrella out of the hot sun and enjoy a malt beverage or three and not kill myself .It's not all about cycle time .Steady pace wins the race .

Offline Upstatewoodchuc

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2021, 11:56:34 AM »
Well to keep everyone updated, I stumbled into a 40 ton flipable splitter at TSC for 1799 due to a dented gas tank, has a 25gpm pump and 5 inch ram with a 9.5 second cycle time. I've decided this plus my dieder with a 4 way is the best way to tackle this year and then go big next season, alot of the stuff inbetween just doesn't make sense. And the way I see it after watching craigslist and marketplace for the last year, I could run the pics out of this splitter and sell it for almost what I paid in a year or two, people want 900 for 20 year old 25 ton splitters here. I did get to use the new 40 ton for an afternoon and I sat on a block of wood next to it flipped vertical and rolled everything to it and when stuff was more than a step away I backed the splitter and my tractor farther into the pile, the thing splits as fast as I could feed it and my back felt great!
Current collection: Husky 3120xp,  372xp, 365, husky 55, homelite xl12. Michigan 85 wheel loader, Ford 8n with loader and forks. Farmall super C, 1988 international dump truck, John Deere 440ICD dozer, 19ft equipment trailer, 40 ton TSC splitter, modified dieder splitter with 4 way.

Offline brianJ

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2021, 02:31:25 PM »
Well to keep everyone updated, I stumbled into a 40 ton flipable splitter at TSC for 1799 due to a dented gas tank, has a 25gpm pump and 5 inch ram with a 9.5 second cycle time. I've decided this plus my dieder with a 4 way is the best way to tackle this year and then go big next season, alot of the stuff inbetween just doesn't make sense. And the way I see it after watching craigslist and marketplace for the last year, I could run the pics out of this splitter and sell it for almost what I paid in a year or two, people want 900 for 20 year old 25 ton splitters here. I did get to use the new 40 ton for an afternoon and I sat on a block of wood next to it flipped vertical and rolled everything to it and when stuff was more than a step away I backed the splitter and my tractor farther into the pile, the thing splits as fast as I could feed it and my back felt great!
This is what I have been thinking but did not want to rain on your parade.    Firewood is nothing more than a material handling problem.   Other than a processor with conveyors, the way to get efficiency is to set up a layout with a minimum of handling.   I get blocked wood into a bucket them have the bucket one step from the splitter and the splitter is close enough to throw pieces onto the split pile.   When I am cutting tops I will cut small branches that don't need splitting until I have a bucket full.   Sometimes takes 2 or three tops.   That bucket full dumps directly onto the pile.    Sometimes I arrange a delivery & split directly into my pickup rather than tossing on the pile.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2021, 05:15:37 PM »
Not to be a doubting Thomas but to be more accurate a 5" cylinder on a 3000 PSI system which is usually set at 2750 is closer to 27-28  tons, not 40 tons .I don't why those manufactures insist on inaccuracies but most do . That said most likely using a 5" over a 4" cylinder is it doesn't put the strain on the system which would generate less heat and heat is what causes failure over time .IMO way too much interest in cycle time on these things .Usually unless you are 24-26 years old the splitter will out run you .It doesn't get tired but you will .

Offline Upstatewoodchuc

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2021, 06:40:37 PM »
From what I can tell this system is 3800 psi, 5" cylinder and 25gpm pump, I think the 40 to might be correct because I've been busting crotches with it and not much slows it down, I'd say it has 2-3x's the splitting power of my old hopped up dieder and it cycles quick. That being said I totally understand your comment because most of the high tonnage consumer splitters have low psi and crappy pumps that make slow cycle times
Current collection: Husky 3120xp,  372xp, 365, husky 55, homelite xl12. Michigan 85 wheel loader, Ford 8n with loader and forks. Farmall super C, 1988 international dump truck, John Deere 440ICD dozer, 19ft equipment trailer, 40 ton TSC splitter, modified dieder splitter with 4 way.

Online mike_belben

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2021, 09:20:16 PM »
I doubt many people know who that is these days AL.  ;)
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2021, 09:36:25 AM »
Another thing .Because I worked 29 years in an auto engine plant although did not do hydraulics systems I had to be familiar of how they work .I have in my library of books  among other things the design manual published by Parker-Hannifin .Interesting enough in the charts it shows using cylinders on a system pressures far below what they are designed for .By doing so the life expectancy of the systems far exceed running at full pressure often by a factor of ten or more .
For example the 5" cylinder on my home built is a P-H super duty cylinder with a 4500 PSI rating but while in service only had about 800 PSI .
It would be unusual to find many systems that use higher pressures than 3000 PSI and those would be for something out of the ordinary .BTW I can't even lift that large cylinder any more because it's over 200 pounds .I was a lot younger and stronger when I built that thing .
As far as ratings take a look see at what Timber Wolf rates their splitters .Unless it's changed they rate the 5" models at an honest 29 ton rating and the 4" at 19 tons .Just my observation ,call them whatever you want . :)

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2021, 09:52:29 AM »
You could go on about splitter designs until the cows come home with different view points .I'll give one example.
My bud who owns a tree service has an older tip up  TSC model with a 4" and an 8 HP Briggs running wide open which is faster than my home built .However his cylinder gets hot enough to fry an egg on .Mine using an 11 HP Briggs at 2/3 throttle with a 5" doesn't over heat and the transfer from low pressure to high  pressure is set at 900 and it seldom shifts .Plus it doesn't blow your ears out listening to that engine screaming away and that alone is worth something .

Offline Upstatewoodchuc

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2021, 10:26:04 AM »
I agree, technique and process are the most important, after running these two splitters i think a good conveyer would be the next best addition for upping production versus adding a third commercial splitter such as a box wedge.
Current collection: Husky 3120xp,  372xp, 365, husky 55, homelite xl12. Michigan 85 wheel loader, Ford 8n with loader and forks. Farmall super C, 1988 international dump truck, John Deere 440ICD dozer, 19ft equipment trailer, 40 ton TSC splitter, modified dieder splitter with 4 way.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2021, 12:45:51 PM »
The idea is splitting the firewood to a usable size .An actual wide pattern splitting axe works very well and a young strong guy can out run a hydraulic splitter--but the splitter doesn't tire  out .Doesn't need a coffee break, smoke break or beer break .Just needs some fuel from time to time .In my "golden years " I've refrained from swinging an axe as much as I can .Something being said about working smarter rather than harder.. 8)

Online mike_belben

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2021, 02:05:14 PM »
I have come to conclude that work and exercise are horses of a different color that fool us into thinking theyre the same.  Proper exercise [along with diet and rest] is the key to youth.  

Work pretends to be exercise but it doesnt care if it kills you.. Only that the work gets done.  No one is gonna tell you to curl 2500 reps, because that just ruins a joint. 

But the wood pile or the tobacco field or whatever will say i need 3000 reps, and im good exercise.  But its a liar.  Carpal tunnel, tennis elbow, tendonitis, lumbar degenerative disc disease, rotator cuffs, AC arthritis.. Knee, hip and foot problems.    


Thats what a splitting maul really offers long term.  Some will get a worse deal that others.  
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Gere Flewelling

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2021, 04:46:08 PM »
My son and I purchased the largest Super Split last year.  I had planned to purchase a box splitter, but the expense was just too great.  The Super Split was cheap $$ in comparison.  I purchase the large table and added a folding extension that tapered at the end to match up with our wood conveyor.  We cut up log length for fire wood and slabs for camp fire wood.  That little machine would run all day on a tank of gas, never ran out of power, and if it wouldn't split it it would cut it.  We went from a 2' homemade hydraulic and a 4' hydraulic splitter with hydraulic tables to this machine.  If we had big stuff we would put it in the tractor bucket and bring it up table level or use a homemade TPH lifting boom with a hand winch and tongs to lift them up onto the super split.  The table is designed to keep most big chunks on the table.  They big ones you don't split in half, you take pie sized pieces out of them till they get small.  The speed of splitting normal sized wood 16" and down is 
unbelievable, and it is pretty quick with larger ones as well.  There is very little waste that comes off the wood compared to box type splitters or wood processors with the multi wedges.  And who would ever wasting time splitting slabs into kindling?  The Super Split doesn't care.  It sips gas and runs them through faster than you can feed it, making perfect campfire wood.  A great investment in my opinion.  Did I mention I fit in the "old" category and have back issues.  You still have to use common sense to keep from getting hurt.  That splitter paid for itself in one year.  It will take many years with the box splitters.  Not that I wouldn't love to have one.  Great invention, wish I had thought of it.
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Offline Upstatewoodchuc

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Re: Kinetic splitters and production
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2021, 09:04:39 PM »
My son and I purchased the largest Super Split last year.  I had planned to purchase a box splitter, but the expense was just too great.  The Super Split was cheap $$ in comparison.  I purchase the large table and added a folding extension that tapered at the end to match up with our wood conveyor.  We cut up log length for fire wood and slabs for camp fire wood.  That little machine would run all day on a tank of gas, never ran out of power, and if it wouldn't split it it would cut it.  We went from a 2' homemade hydraulic and a 4' hydraulic splitter with hydraulic tables to this machine.  If we had big stuff we would put it in the tractor bucket and bring it up table level or use a homemade TPH lifting boom with a hand winch and tongs to lift them up onto the super split.  The table is designed to keep most big chunks on the table.  They big ones you don't split in half, you take pie sized pieces out of them till they get small.  The speed of splitting normal sized wood 16" and down is
unbelievable, and it is pretty quick with larger ones as well.  There is very little waste that comes off the wood compared to box type splitters or wood processors with the multi wedges.  And who would ever wasting time splitting slabs into kindling?  The Super Split doesn't care.  It sips gas and runs them through faster than you can feed it, making perfect campfire wood.  A great investment in my opinion.  Did I mention I fit in the "old" category and have back issues.  You still have to use common sense to keep from getting hurt.  That splitter paid for itself in one year.  It will take many years with the box splitters.  Not that I wouldn't love to have one.  Great invention, wish I had thought of it.
 
Thank you very much for the insight! After all these years im still learning everyday, and im almost thinking that adding a super split and a conveyer to the mix next year would be the ticket. The 40 ton flipable splitter I ended up buying gets the muscle work out of quartering the big guys and then the quarters get thrown to the guy with the 4 way wedge on the smaller splitter, but there definitely seems to be room for a kinetic in the process. 
Current collection: Husky 3120xp,  372xp, 365, husky 55, homelite xl12. Michigan 85 wheel loader, Ford 8n with loader and forks. Farmall super C, 1988 international dump truck, John Deere 440ICD dozer, 19ft equipment trailer, 40 ton TSC splitter, modified dieder splitter with 4 way.


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