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Author Topic: Dozer winch plumbing  (Read 1290 times)

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Offline Jkauffman

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Dozer winch plumbing
« on: July 16, 2021, 10:05:40 PM »
Iíve got a komatsu d37e-2 that Iím gonna put a hydraulic winch on.I just wondered if I should plumb in my valve ahead of or behind the blade control valve?Also will the hydraulic pump be okay with a decent amount of use?Should I install a hydraulic temp gauge?This is just a dozer for some personal use logging and clearing,not for hire so speed isnít that big a deal.Thanks 

Online mike_belben

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2021, 10:33:06 PM »
The safest way is to come off the pump to a tee.  The tee houses an adjustable relief valve and a gauge.  The relief should get its own line back to tank with filtration ideally.  Then you can go to whichever valve you prefer first without worry of exploding anything from stacked up differential pressure while absent mindedly using the blade and winch at the same time.  

Whichever valve you want to have priority should be first since the one downstream will be blocked while the one upstream is in use.  but i dont think it matters too much in that case.. Blade and cable dont really get simultaneous use.  If you put the winch valve at the right rear of the cab youll have a hard time using both at once anyway without twisting your left hand to the blade sticks.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline g_man

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2021, 11:00:27 AM »
If it were me, not an expert but know some basics, I would put the winch valve first using  a motor valve with power beyond. PB port would go to blade control valve input. Many blade control valves are no designed to withstand pressure on the tank port. By putting the winch first you will insure this doesnít happen.

gg

Offline g_man

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2021, 11:01:16 AM »
If it were me, not an expert but know some basics, I would put the winch valve first using  a motor valve with power beyond. PB port would go to blade control valve input. Many blade control valves are no designed to withstand pressure on the tank port. By putting the winch first you will insure this doesnít happen.

gg
?.. did some wrong ?

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2021, 12:52:10 PM »
No it shows up fine for me gman.


The blade valve may well have power beyond convertability and if a plug is still available can be converted to feed the winch valve downstream of the PB plug.  The PB kit will prevent the exhaust side from seeing working pressure by giving it a dedicated tank line. and you are right, some valves will probably spill their guts from work pressure on the exhaust side so it can be bad.   i havent had it occur yet on my own junk plumbed in series without PB kits but its definitely a thing to be very aware of, like stacking poppet pressures.


If his winch does not have a mechanical brake to hold the drum then he will need to use a cylinder centered valve or else the line will reel out as he drives away.  I assumed he is putting on an old worm gear braden or tulsa etc salvage unit.  The factory komatsu PTO bolt on jobs are pretty hard to find.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Jkauffman

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2021, 07:45:50 PM »
Thanks guys I appreciate the responses.My winch is an older lantec dozer winch.I got a valve from the same guy I got the winch from but Iím not sure itís a pb valve(Iím pretty dumb on hydraulics as you can see🤨)it has a big port on the opposite side of the inflow that is marked outflow.Would this make it a power beyond?

Offline Jkauffman

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2021, 10:29:37 PM »
I tried posting a pic of my valve but no success.Iím almost positive it is a pb valve.So can I just plumb it into the main line coming from the pump than run the line out the other side to got to blade control valves.Doesnít it need a drain goin from the added valve to the tank?It has a port for that.Also what about regulating pressure if I put the valve there?Thanks for your patience,I know a lot more about engines than hydraulics

Offline g_man

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2021, 05:20:00 PM »
It is hard to say the best way without knowing the details of what you have. The tank port question is easy though - you need to tee that into any line returning directly back to the hydraulic tank or into the tank itself if there convenient plug. The winch control valve may contain a built in pressure relief valve. If it doesnít you should put one in up stream. If you donít know, putting one in up stream wonít hurt anything even if it is redundant. The PRV will have a tank port also.

It is to bad you canít get info on the blade control and winch valves. If the blade control valve can take pressure on the tank/out port you could put the winch valve down stream from it like Mike suggested. Then you could use the PRV in the blade control valve and not have to add one.

gg

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2021, 09:54:16 PM »
Just buy a winch valve with an adjustable relief and a power beyond and plumb that in upstream of the blade valve.  


The new valve has 5 ports.  A/B are work ports, they go to the winch's hydraulic motor.  "P" is the inlet valve from the pump.  "T" or "exh" is the line to go to the filterhead and tank. "PB" is the line that will now go to the blade valve inlet port.  Its exhaust plumbing will also go to the filterhead.  A Tee into it will be fine.


Just be sure the gpm and pressure rating of the new valve is able to take the pump flow and not have lower pressure than the blade currently uses now.  A gauge tee off the pump hardpipe would help set the relief pressure.  If your first valve is st 2300psi and your second is 2500 then the 2300psi poppet opens and limits both.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Jkauffman

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2021, 10:59:16 PM »
Iíll have to check on the blade control valve I guess,just realized that blade control is about 2500 psi and winch is 2000.The winch valve does have 5 ports and a built in pressure relief.It looks as if I need to install after blade cluster but Iíll have to check that out.Thanks a lot for yíallís help

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2021, 11:59:33 PM »
Yes.. The pressure will have to cascade downward as it gets further from the pump. Double check all your specs before you get too invested in plan A. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Jkauffman

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2021, 09:23:13 AM »
I think my best option is goin to be put a diverter valve in so one more question😊can I use my power beyond valve for that?Do I need to run the ďpower beyond lineĒto the tank or can I convert it to a closed center valve n use it that way.

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2021, 12:10:35 PM »
Your question makes me think you might not understand yet how this all really works and thats fine.  It starts off as a blank spot in your head and fills in a little at a time like a jigsaw puzzle coming together.  


I think that you mean a 6 port selectable diverter valve so that your blade stick can also become your winch control stick.  this would go in your A/B work ports of one spool and the power beyond will not be needed in any way as you are not feeding an additional spool valve.  You are using one existing spool and making it able to serve 2 different functions.  

That is a fine way to do it if the pressure and spool center type suit both functions.   however you will not have the ability to designate different pressures to the blade and winch (unless you add an independant relief valve between the selector port and winch port on the reel-in side with a line back to tank- not so sleek or cost effective as just adding a downstream valve on power beyond to run the winch.  Rube goldbergish.)   

so if your blade runs 2500 psi your winch will potentially do so as well by using a selectable diverter, because there is only one relief in the system and its at blade pressure setting which you dont want to reduce..  It would require a load (logs) large enough to generate the resistance to build that 2500 psi in the winch. but that would be the max pressure before the relief cartridge cracks open and vents it back down. That pressure might not break anything in the winch rated for 2k (right?  Or am i dreaming i read that?), or it might. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Jkauffman

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2021, 07:17:46 PM »
The jigsaw puzzle describes it perfectly haha.Yeah Iíve never done much with hydraulics so this is pretty new.

   What I actually was trying to say is if I would put in a manual diverter valve in between pump and blade control so that one would run to blade control,the other to the winch.Someone had mentioned this earlier and it would be slightly unhandy as it would limit the other function but would work because u wouldnít really need the blade while winching logs.And what I meant about the valve I have is that I have a power beyond valve that I got with the winch and was just wondering about using it with the diverter.If I would what would I do with the line coming out of that valve?Lol if you are sufficiently confused you donít have respond

I think I see what U are saying about using the blade control and a diverter to run winch.Like if I would use the ď6th wayĒ valve for lack of better terms,than switch and run the winch when needed if I could get the pressure regulated right

Iím waiting to here back from someone about the capability of the blade control valve to have a valve put in downstream.That would be the easiest it seems like 

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2021, 09:49:52 PM »
If you invest the time to put up pics of your winch and its hydraulic ports, the valve you got with it and a couple views of your blade valve from the side door, i will invest the time to sketch you a schematic.


The pics will answer my too many questions.  Without those answered i dont wanna risk drawing up a bomb for you.


Isaiah 63:10

Offline Jkauffman

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2021, 06:13:18 PM »
 

 

 

 

Offline Jkauffman

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2021, 06:14:54 PM »
Can yaíll see the pics?My phone is acting up,or more like itís me lol

Also I called the lantec factory and asked them about the max psi for my winch.The service guy said about 3,000,and it sounded kinda like a guess IMO but he should know what heís talking about.Is that crazy high?

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2021, 07:59:51 PM »
Nah 3,000 would be my guesstimate too.   
I will try to get back to you with my shoddy opinion tonight. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Jkauffman

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2021, 07:40:23 PM »
Also was gonna ask what do I need to fasten this winch on?Its not a direct fit of course and just wasnít sure about how many and what sized bolts Iíd need.Wimch will be around 1k and has 12,500 pull.Brake is good for 24,000 lb and dozer supposedly has around 18,000 lb pull.I have a plan in mind and am expecting to do some heavy duty fabrication but just wasnít sure on the bolts

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Re: Dozer winch plumbing
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2021, 09:49:41 PM »
Man i am so sorry i dropped the ball on this.  


My flash just wont get a good image of the sketch so i tweaked all the editing filters until it popped.  Sorry it looks goofy.  

This is your current setup.  Tank to pump to valve to filter to tank.. An open center loop.  






I am pretty certain after looking at your pics that this is what you need to do.  Put that valve in the lead, upstream of your blade valve, which i drew as a 3 spool for a 6 way blade.. If its only 2 spool still same thing. Those circles i drew represent pairs of work ports going to cylinders... A&B A&B A&B.   Here is the sketch..





 We will have some things to verify on that valve before you do this. It needs a certain configuration. I will start hammering out another post...
Isaiah 63:10


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