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Author Topic: Hydraulic hose  (Read 2176 times)

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Offline Firewoodjoe

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Hydraulic hose
« on: August 20, 2021, 06:25:45 PM »
Iíve been thinking about a hose machine. Well today I bought about a 10 foot 3/4Ē 6000 psi with flat face fittings. One straight one 90. $650. I looked up a 150 foot spool of hose and itís just over $40 per foot. So $400 plus the fittings plus owning/buying the machine. Thatís not enough savings for me. Is the $40 a foot sound about right? 

Offline kiko

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2021, 06:38:34 PM »
I sell hydraulic hose.  Inventory price increases and supply issues are driving the price up. That hose would cost close to 500.  But that is for quality hose.  And we have different local pricing I suppose. I would say 650 for that hose is maybe just a little high if it is good stuff. If it is cheap import stuff they killed it.

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2021, 06:43:07 PM »
Itís gates or Parker around here. You say it cost $500. Is that sale price or your cost to make it? 

Offline tawilson

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2021, 07:21:35 PM »
It sure is nice to blow a hose and walk out of the shop 10 minutes later with a new one.
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Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2021, 07:28:59 PM »
My shop is 1 1/2 away. One of the hydraulic shops is 35 minutes away. Only way a hose machine would save me time is if I had it in a job trailer or made up multiple hoses and carries them. And hoped I had one of the many for my 4 machines. 

Offline kiko

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2021, 07:29:36 PM »
$500 is sale price, but at the moment it is just an estimate.  I can be more accurate when I am at the store and could punch it in .  IMO Parker is good hose Gates is not bad in 4 and 6 wire , 2 wire it goes south.. Just to be clear , when you say flat face fittings are you referring to o ring face seal or bolt flange and if flange do you know if it was schedule 61 , 62 , cat flange. 

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2021, 07:53:30 PM »
O-ring face. I just went out there and looked. 12 1/4 feet and itís parker hose. 

Offline Corley5

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2021, 08:02:02 PM »
  I bought a hose machine after I got my first forwarder.  Never have I regretted it.  After owning a Hose Monster Four Roller Fabtek I really appreciated it.  You don't look at the cost of one hose when considering buying one.  You look at the cost of many.
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Offline Plankton

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2021, 08:18:33 PM »
I would get a hose machine and a cheap utility/storage trailer for it if thats what it takes. 650 sounds pretty pricy for that hose our local price at a store would be closer to what kikos is.

You start blowing lots of hoses it will pay for itself.

If you dont already do this Hose machine or not I would reccomend making up or buying doubles of all the hoses that are common to pop on your machines and keeping them in the service truck. That downtime driving to shop or driving to store is worth thousands.

I blew a hose on the forwarder loading the second tier on a canadian the other day we had 2 in the truck. 10 minutes downtime. If I had to go to the store they would have been closed before I got there.

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2021, 08:20:20 PM »
And after running it for a week I see no reason to use a terrible amount of hoses except for accidents and lake of hose placement and wrap. Every fabtek style head Iíve ever seen the hoses are just flopping around. Miss measured and miss routed. Time will tell but I bet I can save half the hoses with a little time and care. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2021, 08:23:05 PM »
I just bought a new gates machine 6 months ago, goes from 1/4 to 1-1/4 and I can do 6 wire. 2800 bucks ? I had to take so much stock with it and basically cost 5k. For me it PAYS to have a machine because I'm basically 1hr to anywhere but your going to tie up HUGE money in inventory to see it, I've probably 10k sitting there and it isn't much. Alot of my stuff is JIC, NPT, keep some 1" 4 wire stuff for the timbco. The problem is the variety of stuff you need on hand, and DONT buy the cheap aftermarket fittings. 

 Shop around on CL, FB market place, I fell into a deal where a guy bought out half a hose shop in an auction, I got mostly hose and bigger fittings. When I say I couldnt fit anymore NEW reels of Parker hose in a 1 ton dump I mean it. For like 2500 bucks 😆 had tubs of 61/62 larger fittings and I sold those for what I had in the hose. 

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2021, 08:35:47 PM »
I just bought a new gates machine 6 months ago, goes from 1/4 to 1-1/4 and I can do 6 wire. 2800 bucks ? I had to take so much stock with it and basically cost 5k. For me it PAYS to have a machine because I'm basically 1hr to anywhere but your going to tie up HUGE money in inventory to see it, I've probably 10k sitting there and it isn't much. Alot of my stuff is JIC, NPT, keep some 1" 4 wire stuff for the timbco. The problem is the variety of stuff you need on hand, and DONT buy the cheap aftermarket fittings.

 Shop around on CL, FB market place, I fell into a deal where a guy bought out half a hose shop in an auction, I got mostly hose and bigger fittings. When I say I couldnt fit anymore NEW reels of Parker hose in a 1 ton dump I mean it. For like 2500 bucks 😆 had tubs of 61/62 larger fittings and I sold those for what I had in the hose.
So at 10k investment Iíd have to save $100 per hose on a 100 hoses. Hmm

Offline btulloh

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2021, 08:43:45 PM »
Or sell 20 hoses. 
HM126

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2021, 08:53:56 PM »
Or sell 20 hoses.
Thatís $2000. So Iíd have to make 80 hoses for myself. Thanks everyone. Iíll pass for now I think. 

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2021, 09:02:32 PM »
I could become a Gates or Parker dealer, had the offer from both. Your not talking 10k at that point, add a zero. Unless your a fulltime shop I wouldn't want the insurance headache selling hose. Big money tied up. I've seen the advantage because I run some older stuff, I did my Hood 7000 from end to end this winter for 1/3 of what it would cost me to buy made hoses. 

Online Skeans1

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2021, 09:14:10 PM »
And after running it for a week I see no reason to use a terrible amount of hoses except for accidents and lake of hose placement and wrap. Every fabtek style head Iíve ever seen the hoses are just flopping around. Miss measured and miss routed. Time will tell but I bet I can save half the hoses with a little time and care. 🤷🏼‍♂️
If youíre just processing youíre probably fine but when youíre cutting and processing youíll go through more hoses. When we ran ours the biggest consumer of hoses was from our vine maple ripping them straight out of the crimps. One other thing we did also was swap a good share of the head and piping over to JIC thereís nothing like having to shut down to change an o ring on a 1Ē hose.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2021, 09:24:36 PM »
My old junk never exceeds 2500 lbs. I am still using reusable fittings when I can or cheap surplus center crimped hose but you can only get pipe or 37 degree jic. [or use there adapters]   That 6 wire, flat face, Cat. etc. is way out of my comfort zone.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2021, 09:58:19 PM »
JIC works for me. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Corley5

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2021, 10:01:40 PM »
  The four wire 3/4" wear and fail at the same point.  I had all of mine shortened so I only had to replace a 3' piece of hose.  Not 10'.  And I learned quick about ORFS and converted to JIC.
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Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2021, 05:49:04 AM »
 The four wire 3/4" wear and fail at the same point.  I had all of mine shortened so I only had to replace a 3' piece of hose.  Not 10'.  And I learned quick about ORFS and converted to JIC.
Did you use the dog cabin on both ends? Did you double wrap the hoses with the big coil wrap so itís not hanging on the hoses? Also I like the idea of 3 foot hoses but doesnít that create a new wear spot with a large area of fittings all against each other? 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2021, 07:52:42 AM »
Stagger the joints and put 1.5" firehose stubs over them as abrasion sleeves, ziptied in place.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Corley5

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2021, 08:50:28 AM »
  I liked having each hose wrapped in a fabric sleeve better than the plastic coils wrapping the whole mess.  The coils held them together so they rubbed harder on each other.  My observation.
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Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2021, 01:04:11 PM »
Yes the Kevlar is good but it doesnít matter whatís on it if the hoses move. Thatís why I like the coil. It holds everything tight. No sliding around. I used 3/4 wrap and the big wrap. From the dog chain down I see no reason those hoses should wear. Where they bend coming out the bracket is triple layer and the dog chain holding up tight. Time will tell. I ran out of 3/4 today but itís way better than it was!  

  


Offline Corley5

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2021, 01:56:31 PM »
Right where they go into the head is where they wear.  Doesn't matter what you do.  You'll see.  I ran mine for four years.  The hoses do move in that spiral wrap.  
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Offline so il logger

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2021, 12:36:35 AM »
The way they are hanging out I don't see any hope for them in the woods. When they designed that they thought it was a good idea I guess? Fire hose around exposed hoses has proven better than spiral wrap for me, but in that application I'd say buy a hose machine and lots of fittings

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2021, 01:15:54 AM »
I could never get the spiral wrap to last but a few days come winter. At -20 that stuff broke anytime it touched something. Over time the hoses in the large spiral wrap rub each other and wear (even when you think they can't move) heck I wore thru a few 1.25" super swivels that were inside the wrap. 

Start felling with the head and reaching thru vines, brush, tops, snow, etc and see how long the hoses last...

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2021, 09:34:08 AM »
If the spiral wrap is moving on a hose itís the wrong size wrap. And yes there going to wear but do you just let them wear until they blow. Visually inspect it when itís greased and fix the wrap. 

Offline Tacotodd

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2021, 09:44:43 AM »
Just make sure that the wrap seems to tight to go on, then it ďshouldnítĒ move and cause issues. That does take a LOT of persistence to get them on like that, but Iíd think that the payoffs would more than offset the time involved (but what do I know, Iím just theorizing).
Trying harder everyday.

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2021, 09:55:49 AM »
And to be clear the yellow wrap is not protecting individual hoses. It just holds the mass of hoses together as one. The hoses in side are wrapped at the bend. Each hose has its own tight wrap. 

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2021, 10:09:30 AM »
Thereís over 40 foot of wrap on the head area right now and I ordered another spool to finish it. 

Offline Corley5

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2021, 10:28:14 AM »
They're hose monsters.   It's not the covering wearing so much as metal fatigue to the braid from all the flexing.  They'll blow inside the fabric and the rubber on the hose is is fine.  
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2021, 11:00:08 AM »
I don't have the need like a lot of you nor do I own anything that uses high pressure above 3000 PSI .The last work I did was about 3 years ago when I resurrected my old Oliver OC-6 bull dozer, circa 1953  and replaced nearly every hose on it .Those came from either Farm and Fleet or Surplus Center Hydraulics relatively inexpensive .Those would get here about 3 days after I ordered them .Plus they sold adaptors for about any size and style ever made .
I do however have a large Greenlee pipe bender ,model 785 that is 10,000 PSI but it sits inside so the hoses might last forever . Greenlee unlike many manufacturers of log splitters don't lie about the capacity .If it says 80 tons that's what it  is .

Offline trimguy

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2021, 01:22:28 PM »
I only have an occasional need for a hose for an old backhoe, so I buy as needed. They always say donít reuse the fittings. I understand you canít reuse the crimp sleeve but why not the fitting ?

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2021, 01:36:35 PM »
Since you mentioned it before I found Surplus Center  Hydraulics from this forum actually I used another on line  supply house .Those people were more concerned about selling warranties on of all things like fittings that seldom fail if ever .I fired them for stupidity plus they were direct shippers and lied about what they had in stock . Then you got it three weeks after you ordered it .
In my case because I'm a hoarder I have buckets full of fittings and assorted hoses all from scrap passes at work .More times than not it's easier for me to just order new than try to figure out in all that junk where to find them .My organizational  skills are not real good .

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2021, 06:57:19 PM »
As tight as you think that spiral is it will move. As the hoses twist and turn and get junk wedged in them the spiral gets moved. Get a little nick in the rubber so there is exposed steel, the steel braids get rusty and with enough flexing the hose goes boom.




Offline barbender

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2021, 07:17:56 PM »
Whenever I hear someone arguing with guys that have been there and done that, I know there is some learning about to commence😊
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2021, 07:56:49 PM »
Whenever I hear someone arguing with guys that have been there and done that, I know there is some learning about to commence😊
😴

Offline Corley5

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2021, 09:08:42 PM »
Just re-inventing the wheel :D :D :D  At some point you ask yourself if you're cutting wood or saving hydraulic hoses and you cut wood.
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2021, 08:03:57 AM »
Spiral wrap I think works to a point but the hoses still manage to tangle up .You might be better off to just bundle them up using heavy duty zip ties .
It all depends on what the system is used for .Something like long "cat track " on a large machine tool could be under a lot of flexing but normally something like a  log splitter would not be .
Cranes,line trucks ,some back hoes require a lot of hose changing .Bull dozers normally go a long time before a hose fails and usually that's because decades out in the hot sun has caused the rubber to go bad .It cracks off exposing the wire then it's only a matter of time .I'll say this if you own old machinery eventually ,sooner or later you will have to work on the hydraulics .

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2021, 08:24:37 AM »
I think you've done a great job of armoring it as well as you possibly can.  That's about all you can do.  Enjoy the machine and the risk reduction that goes with it, when you get a hose break just remind yourself it wasn't your foot, or your hand, or a widow maker and be comfortable with that knowledge and let it take the edge of being PO'd at having to replace the hose that you just changed last week.  

I think you've done a more than fine job with it.  Cut some wood!
Liking Walnut

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2021, 08:48:49 AM »
Yep hoses are just the name of the game on a processor (fabtek more so that others). Sometimes you will go a few months without wrecking a hose, sometimes you will kill 3 in a day. Just the way it goes. 

Keep spares for all the common ones on hand so the downtime is minimal. Remember to get replacements made when you use your spares. Stock up on various adaptors so that you can splice 2 short hoses together, or put a 3/4" hose in place of a 1/2" to get you thru the day, etc.


Offline mike_belben

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2021, 10:13:31 AM »
me personally, i would weld a bracket for bulkhead fittings on any of these machines that have a stupid long hose thats always blowing at the same spot near the end.   terminate them at a bulkhead or union bracket welded to the stick or boom and then put in a short flex joint.. junkgineer it so that all the commonly exploding flex hoses are one or two lengths, say 4 or 5 foot.  then you only need to keep one or two spares that are multi-positional.    i  have no qualms at all about shortening a long hose with a hole at its end and unioning them back together.  

it would also not both me a bit to be replacing straight hose segments with hardpipe or devising C-channel armor covers that bolt onto brackets welded to the stick.  we have covers over track frames and thank god for that, why not stick plumbing?

i consider it rude of the manufacturers to worry about whats good for them more than whats good for the customer when they build a machine.  theyre priced for a profit no matter if they build good or bad.  why not build stuff that is good to maintain as a rule #1?  the market will pay you back in generations of loyalty.  be longsighted about this.   i wouldnt know a fabtek if it bit me on the nose but i know if anyone asks me i will parrot what i read here.. dont buy a fabtek the hose layout will cost you.  thats what it looks like when the market punishes the manufacturer for shortsightedness, making it good enough to sell today and leaving the owner to figure out a reconfiguration later to make up for their design shortcomings.  
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2021, 01:19:35 PM »
I have a library of tech books,theory etc covering many subjects .The ones I have on hydraulics are Parker-Hannifin  and Vickers to name a few .They cover the whys and where-fors on many design criteria .Plus we all obviously have the internet else this conversation would not be happening .Info is out there you just have to find it . 

Offline Plankton

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2021, 07:36:16 PM »
This particular head might be worse then others I don't know. I do know that harvesters are just hose consumers. Nature of the beast out of the buncher and the forwarder and harvester our harvester is consistently blowing hoses. 
Whereas buncher and forwarder are like 2 or 3 a year. That's on a logmax head. Lots of flexing they hang out there to get snagged and rip fittings off and you can over rotate easily etc.

Offline barbender

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2021, 01:02:32 AM »
All harvesters are tough on hoses. The Fabtek seems to be especially hose hungry, because all functions have seperate hoses running to the head from the base machine. Most harvesters have a pair of large hydraulic hoses that go to the head, and then solenoid valves from that divert the oil to functions.
Too many irons in the fire

Online Skeans1

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2021, 07:11:18 AM »
@barbender 
You have to remember these heads were invented well before the valve banks were put out on the heads, even the old European dangle heads had a line running down for each function.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2021, 08:48:58 AM »
For the cost of replacing all the boom length hoses on a full hydrauluc processor head, i bet one can buy off the shelf DC solenoid banks and a pair of DC joysticks ..if theres room to weld a safe space on the back of the head's chassis. 

Modulation control might be poor since theyll be on/off switch.  Are the carriers using open center or compensating closed center systems to power the fabtek head? 
Isaiah 63:10

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2021, 09:27:19 AM »
  Four Rollers are old school and the technology has come a long way.  You can see the lineage in the new JP Skidmore 2 Rollers.  And how they've attempted to get around the hose monster issue.  There's still a bunch of Four Rollers out there putting wood on the ground and they are supported by JP Skidmore.
  I got around the hose issue the best I could by making the areas they wear and break short with male JIC on both ends.  Cheaper than female fittings :)  That included all the hoses from 1/2" 2-wire to the 3/4" four wire.  Much easier and less time consuming to replace that short piece and cheaper :)  Having a hose machine I could make them myself from the existing hoses.  Most hydraulic shops won't work on old hose due to liability.  Having them all wrapped up in spirals and fabric sleeves etc. might have some merit.  But you lose a bunch of time when replacing hoses that blow INSIDE all that protection.  Getting a blown hose out of all that armor that is now soaked in oil and then getting the new one armored back up...  Add in weather like 10 degrees and oil soaked gloves.  Rainy with mosquitoes and black flies.  Or 90 degrees with deer flies.  Slapping bugs with oil covered hands isn't pleasant.  And the added longevity of the hoses because of all that guarding to me wasn't worth it.  It's all about production and changing an unguarded hose in 15 minutes and getting back to cutting vs. much longer for a guarded hose and the lost production.  There's a reason so many Four Rollers have the hoses hanging free. 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2021, 09:41:37 AM »
Short hoses take up less room in cab ;) ;D
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2021, 11:04:48 AM »
Skeans, I realize that and I'm not making a dig at them. Just a statement of fact, more hoses= more problems😊
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Hydraulic hose
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2021, 05:17:09 PM »
Well I wait on a stupid electric fuel supply pump for the harvester. The last thing I want is more electronics. But not these old girls, out with the old old and in with the new old.

 



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