Trees with berries ID

[etd66ss]

 




 


 

Second tree:



 


 

[WV Sawmiller]

   The second tree looks like Basswood (Linden) to me. I'd check it against the other specs on line. Don't recognize the first one off hand.

[lxskllr]

#1 is maybe common hawthorn.

[bitternut]

Looks like both trees have been identified properly. Both are common in western NY. The basswood is a large lumber-producing tree while the thornapple is a much smaller understory tree. Thornapples or hawthorns are one in the same but come in several variations, but to me they are all the same. Not good for anything that have neumatic tires. >:(

[etd66ss]

Thank you!

[SwampDonkey]

thorn apple, hawthorn and tires :D

Thornapple tree - YouTube

[Al_Smith]

Hawthorn is another one they give regional names to .Hawthorn, haw ,thorn apple being some .Deer nibble on them but they are very sour .Kind of funny to me .They might call it a tree but to me it's a bush .While some people refer to a mulberry as a bush but it gets too tall for a bush .
Hawthorn in this area you might find in pasture fields scattered hither  and yon or in fence rows when they had fence rows .Those fence rows BTW are getting as rare as the giant dairy barns of a bygone era .

[etd66ss]

The Thorn Apple I took a picture of is over 15' tall. Looks like a tree, single trunk, etc.

[SwampDonkey]

Some of them can get as big as a small apple tree.

Lots of fence rows up this way, what is rare is finding old cedar rail in them. Younger generations have gleamed them for kindling wood.If they ain't guarded by hawthorns. ;D  Around here in Royalton, hawthorn is about nil, but it is around in places. South of here I was on an abandoned field, solid hawthorn in among wild apples. Up at my uncle's 30 miles north, it took over the pastures. :D I have only seen a couple here growing in the old orchard, which I converted to a hardwoods grove with some ever greens along the west line. In recent years I found a wild grape in there, which never grew here when I was a kid, it grew down in the village along the RR and in fencing also the main river. So it's native for sure. Them old Vikings found some (vine land) in their travels and even picked butternuts because they found some of those over in Labrador in mud houses they built 600 or 800 years ago.

[Al_Smith]

Wild grapes are another subject .About the size of a pea and the birds get them like they do mulberrys .Just like mulberrys they don't stay with them long and they use them for practice bombing runs on your newly washed automobile .I have wild grape vines  growing the closest vines are 200 feet away .Birds act like squirrels that are good nut tree planters .It would not surprise me if thorn apples in pasture fields might be traced to birds .
Come to think about I do have some kind of thorny bush in one of my fence rows I have to duck when mowing the field .I've never seen those little tiny sour apples though .Unless those bushes are like mulberry which have male and female plants . Don't know because I've never claimed to be a forester or arborist .I do know an oak tree from a pine tree though if that counts for anything .

[WDH]

But you got some work to do on your hickories.  Sorry, couldn't help it, just funning  ;) ;D.  

[Al_Smith]

You are correct as I have a couple of standing dead , big ones . ;)

[Southside]

.I do know an oak tree from a pine tree though if that counts for anything .

Had a friends girlfriend a few years back that asked me to walk her wood lot with her as it was part of a larger family lot that was being clear cut and she had absolutely no idea what she had, or what she could do as she had ideas for use of the land that didn't involve a clear cut.  Se we went for a walk, we are standing in the middle of natural re-gen pine for as far as you can see when she says "Now these are all oak right?".  Ummm, where do I start.:  Then it got better, we were on an old, easy to see path and she tells me she just has to "look at something right there for a moment".   Sure - so I turn around to give her some privacy as she walks 50 or so feet away.  Few minutes later I say something, no answer, so I say something louder, no answer.  Head in that direction - no friends girlfriend.  What the....  Spend the next two hours searching for her, call a buddy who is a Game Warden and tell him I need help, kinda, sorta, have a missing person issue.  Call my wife and ask her to start over this way, yea this is looking great for me.  It wasn't like it was an area big enough to actually get lost and get in trouble in, but still.  Eventually she found her way to a road and came back but...ugg that was getting embarrassing.  

To her credit after that she did sign up for a small woodlot owners class at a local University so now she knows an oak from a pine.  Not sure if map and compass was part of the class work or not. ;D

[Al_Smith]

 :D It does go on and on about like the never ending often revisited great oil debate .So here's another to kick to fro to take the heat of hickory trees 
You have linden and you have basswood .What's the difference ? How's about Osage orange and hedge apple or just plain hedge ?Osage certainly is not related to a real orange tree but is to a mulberry which is often referred  to as a bush .Then how's come I have a male in my thicket that's nearly 50 feet tall ? I'm just so confused . ;D

[WDH]

It was the most desirable wood for native Americans bows.  The Osage were one tribe that highly valued the wood.  The fruit is a large berry that looks like an orange.  It was found to make an almost impenetrable hedge to act as a natural fence due to the thorns and the intertwining growth habit of the twigs and the fruit is large like an apple.  It was widely planted in the East as a natural fence/hedge. 

[Al_Smith]

--plus when hedge rows get about 3 -- 4 feet across it will stop a 2,000 pound Holstein bull with a twinkle in his eye . :D

[Southside]

Ever seen how high and far them things can jump?  We had to increase the height of the chest gates in the parlor because of two that would just launch themselves out when they wanted to.  Stand there, launch, and not touch the gate at all on the way over it as the claw hit the ground.  Started calling one "Willie" as in "Free Willie" because of it.  

[kantuckid]

Hawthorn is another one they give regional names to .Hawthorn, haw ,thorn apple being some .Deer nibble on them but they are very sour .Kind of funny to me .They might call it a tree but to me it's a bush .While some people refer to a mulberry as a bush but it gets too tall for a bush .
Hawthorn in this area you might find in pasture fields scattered hither  and yon or in fence rows when they had fence rows .Those fence rows BTW are getting as rare as the giant dairy barns of a bygone era .

I have them here and there too and never seen one much over 3-4' tall. Why are the bigger up north? Different species? 

[Al_Smith]

It could be there might be different species of thorn apples or what ever you want to call them .I've seem them, all short with little grape sized fruit to about ping pong ball sized .They might be good for something but eating off the bush is not one of them .Maybe for baking tarts because that they are indeed .

[SwampDonkey]

Many species, some grow 30 feet tall. The Cockspur hawthorn, Crataegus crusgalliis, a showy native ornamental. It's not hard to find botanical info in books and Google. :D   You fellas with small ones, stop cut'n them for 40 years on old pasture ground and see how high they grow. :D

[Al_Smith]

I'll check out my fence row about mid next week to see what I have .All I know is it tries to snag the hat off my head when I mow .I'm recuperating at the moment from trying to act like I'm 23 instead of 73 .Had a little blow out which required a high tech tire patch .
I have to do battle with that fence row about every 5 or 6 years .Of course I always win because I have the chainsaw .Danged things got my John-Deere hat once that was water proofed with genuine John-Deere grease .After it went through a flair mower all I had left was a beanie .

[kantuckid]

OK, lets see how that pans out for "you fellas" :D? 

We bought this land in 1978 which had no road and was an old subsistence farm area with some tobacco patches and bench fields that had grown into mature pines and old pastures too.
 These small hawthorns have been left alone since we moved here as I find them "interesting" based on spring flowers and the same small fruits mentioned above. I already guessed the height at 3-4" as I recall, certainly not seen them grow much? 
Now, back to why they aren't bigger?  cause it' not me chopping on them... ;D

[samandothers]

SwampDonkey,
That was an interesting utube.  I ended up watching quite a few of his clips.  Interesting guy.   I enjoyed the ones about his use of Pine Tar and Linseed oil or Turpentine as a finish.

[SwampDonkey]

I follow him, but I just gloss over any of his conspiracy chats out in the garage. To me a lot of diatribe of no value. :D

But one thing there that is quite true, you have to use a bit of skepticism from a lot of news providers. They themselves will often know better (by their own admission) than the message they give. James Randii would call them "media ___'s", because they'll say/do anything to sell news. :D :D

The old codger weaves rugs,  and this past Feb he lost his mother, who was still weaving rugs to near the end. She was 92.

I like his mechanic projects to, motor bikes, VW bus, M37, the old Chev Car from the 40's. He saws lumber on an Alaskan, and lot of wood cut'n in the winter for firewood and logs. :D

[Al_Smith]

I did get some pictures today of trees or bushes with berries .I have no idea what they are except they aren't hickory trees or oaks . ;) First one is that thorn infested thing ,looks little like a hawthorn ,sort of but no thorn apple .

 

[Al_Smith]

What this next thing is I also have no idea except it favors a cherry of some kind .No thorns

 

[Al_Smith]

Third and last .The other two are bushes ,this is a tree .By the leaves it looks like something in the maple family .That tree is 40 feet tall .

 

[Wattwood]

Al:
The first one is a hawthorn. Sometimes the fruit don't amount to much of anything. The second is one of the eleagnus species- Russian olive. It is one of our big invasive bullies in Ohio. Originally brought in for reclamation I would guess through the Soil Conservation Service. If you run your hand along the stem you'll find modified thorns. The spotted fruit are a clue. The third I think you have two species in the picture. The leaf on the right is a maple. I would guess silver due to the depth of the sinuses but could be red. The fruit is connected to a viburnum. One of the cranberry bushes. It may be tall but it's not a tree. The leaf is maple like in appearance. There are American and European versions. The American versions of most of the viburnums are being hit hard by the viburnum leaf beetle. If the picture is from an urban area it would be a reasonable guess that it is European. 

I haven't fact checked the info above. Just working on recollection. I'm just eating a bowl of cereal and typing away...

[Old Greenhorn]

That third tree is a Silver Maple, we called them swamp maple when I was a kid. Very white wood, not terribly strong compared to other maples but makes good interior finishing millwork wood. Definitely not red maple. Red is the most populous maple in NYS and I hate them almost as much as the Striped Maple, if that's possible. ;D
 Silver maples were often planted as urban ornamentals (sidewalk tees) but they have terrible ground root systems that require trimming if you want to mow the area. They can also lift sidewalk right out of the ground. If I recall, they have a heck of a tap root too but I was 12 the last time we dug out one of those stumps. I just remember being down in a hole up to my knees cutting roots. The tops bush out, they love sun. Over the ages branches die and break off. Carpenter ants love them. Mature trees are very subject to storm damage if they are unprotected by other trees. I am not a fan. :D

[Al_Smith]

Historically the lay of the land where that fence row is is on the lines of two different townships which crosses my land .The northern side had been cleared and was probably once crop land .The southern is all big tree woods .Fact I have some monster big oaks as does the rest of that remaining woods land .
What is in those  thickets now is very diverse which I assume might have been planted by bird droppings .The deer seem to be quite fond of the  thickets due to the fact they are browsers about like a goat .

[Al_Smith]

Rambling on. When I moved here in the 90's that approx 2 acres of land was not mown and had grown up with about zillion little what I thought to be silver maple saplings and big heathy weeds .On new years day with 2 inches of snow on the ground I ran a flair mower through the whole mess and stirred up about enough field mice to feed half the red tail hawks in northern Ohio for a month .For the next two weeks at the crack of dawn those hawks were perched in the top of trees .It's all grass now but I still get the hawks in lesser numbers .
As far as maple trees I thought the native was sugar maples and the silver and red were transplants and had the twirlies like a sugar maple .Never knew about red "berries " on any .

[bitternut]

Al you have hawthorn, autumn olive, and highbush cranberry.

[etd66ss]

That third tree is a Silver Maple, we called them swamp maple when I was a kid. Very white wood, not terribly strong compared to other maples but makes good interior finishing millwork wood. Definitely not red maple. Red is the most populous maple in NYS and I hate them almost as much as the Striped Maple, if that's possible. ;D
Silver maples were often planted as urban ornamentals (sidewalk tees) but they have terrible ground root systems that require trimming if you want to mow the area. They can also lift sidewalk right out of the ground. If I recall, they have a heck of a tap root too but I was 12 the last time we dug out one of those stumps. I just remember being down in a hole up to my knees cutting roots. The tops bush out, they love sun. Over the ages branches die and break off. Carpenter ants love them. Mature trees are very subject to storm damage if they are unprotected by other trees. I am not a fan. :D

I agree on the soft maples. Silver maples are the worst. My forest is primarily Silver Maple & White Ash. The emerald ash borer killed a lot of my ash, and the Silver maples drop a lot of garbage on the ground. I logged quite a bit of silver maple when I bought my land, and dug out stumps with my CAT 225 excavator, a reasonably large machine. The stumps gave that excavator a hard time. Some of the root balls were 8 ft in diameter by about 6 ft deep, and they don't give up the dirt easily, so some of them I could not even lift off the ground and had to push them around with a dozer.

[SwampDonkey]

Yes, you have a viburnum in with your maple photo. It can be one of several species, and not always highbush cranberry. Some species, if you try to make jelly it will be a terrible mess. I think Jeff tried some from an unknown viburnum species and it wasn't good. ;)

[Al_Smith]

Hows come so many foresters and so many different opinions ? ??? If it is highbush cranberry from what I read it smells like dirty socks cooking down .Not to worry I'll let the birds have it .About the only thing I fool with are the black walnuts from a 100 foot giant in my woods .Largest black walnuts I've ever seen in my life .If they conked you in the noggin it would lay you out .Fact this time of the year perhaps I should don my brain bucket ( hard hat ) if I venture out there .

[KEC]

The last pic looks like Highbush Cranberry. The New York State DEC (state wildlife agency) sells packets of trees and shrubs for wildlife plantings. They used to offer Highbush Cranberry for the berries for birds. Most birds aren't crazy about eating it, but the thinking was that it stays on the bush all winter, so it is available if they need it to survive.

[Al_Smith]

I guess I don't pay attention .About 20 years ago that thicket was nothing but deer browse .Looking at it when I took those pictures it's got 30 foot trees in in it .I'd imagine the squirrels planted any nut trees if there are any  .Wind blew the cotton woods and maples  and most likely the birds did a good share of the others especially the black raspberries I dearly love .I just forget to pick them because the season is rather short and I'm usually busy with something else .  

[Old saw fixer]

The wildlife get my black berries before I can.  The worst bunch of chiggers I ever got was picking black berries years ago.  Kind of don't want a repeat so I tend not to wade in a patch anymore.

[Al_Smith]

It makes you wonder exactly how these things propagated .In mine plus nearly 10 acres of adjoining woods I've found exactly one catalpa tree .It's a gnarly old thing slowly dying for the last 20 years , eventually I'll need to drop .How on earth did it ever get there to begin with ?