bore cutting with 372 xp - bar question

[maplecutter]

I've got a 30" standing dead maple to cut.  Most of the crown has died off and fallen down over the years.  So there isn't a lot of weight up top, but it's got a side lean and I'd like to bore cut it, out of fear that it may barber chair on me.  I've got  372xp with a 24" bar that won't quite make it all the way though on the bore.  So I'd like to get a longer bar.  Any thoughts on skip chain, max length, etc for that powerhead?  The husky bar/chain chart just goes up through 28" for the 372 xp, as far as I can see.  I've got a few other big diameter trees that the longer bar would come in handy for, so I don't mind spending the money to give myself options on the few other big trees that may need felling periodically.   

[beenthere]

A longer bar is not needed for your dead maple, but if you just want a longer then go for it. 
A 20" bar would work for a 30" diameter tree. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Just bore in from both sides. The cuts don't have to match, just bypass each other. The end grain won't have any holding power. Just make sure your hinge is straight-ish.

[Ianab]

Rough and ready video of bore cutting from both sides. Like OG says, you don't have to meet the cuts, just overlap and close-ish, If it's forward leaning you only need a shallow notch, just get in deep enough to be able to form a hinge. Bore cut in behind the hinge and nibble your way up to leave your hinge wood, from both sides. If you line up your bore cut with the inner point of the notch both times, you will be close. Then gut out most of the cut back towards the holding wood. Cut the trigger and boogy on out of there. Watch for widow makers if the tree is dying.  Cutting the trigger seems safer than finishing the hinge as the tree is starting to move. 

Cutting Sheoak - YouTube

[barbender]

Even a 24" bar can be kinda nasty when bore cutting, if you get into the tip too much and get a kickback it is powerful. I would actually prefer a 20" on that size if tree, you'll be working from both sides anyways and with the longer bar you're always cutting with just the tip so that you don't over cut. 

 I have a 42" bar on a Husky 390 I use for cutting packages, I wouldn't want to bore cut with that thing😬

[Walnut Beast]

 I've got a 28" bar on my Husky 371 and have bore cut many big walnut trees. That length in my opinion is absolutely ideal. A full chisel chain has worked very well. I'm betting if you go 28" you will love it on that saw! That saw with a 28" bar on it is absolutely beautiful for using on everything! I had the same situation as you with the shorter bar and when I put a Oregon Power Match on it the shorter bar has never been back on. When you bore cut don't try and nose it in. Feather a cut from the side front then back into your groove and start blowing chips! With the 28" bar everything intersects in the existing cut. Quick clean flat cuts and no chopped up bottom

 

 

 

[Ianab]

I've got a 28" bar on my Husky 371 and have bore cut many big walnut trees

As you say, you have to start the bore cut with the "lower" corner of the bar. Once it's buried in the trunk it can't kick back, and you swivel the saw around to your plunge angle and it just feeds on in. The video is my Dolmar 7900 with a 28" bar, so similar class of saw. Have dropped ~50" trees with it. 

[Nealm66]

I keep hearing so much about bore cutting. I've cut some wicked blow down patches on steep ground where getting away quickly isn't always an option and never bore cut anything. I've topped large hardwoods and definitely wouldn't bore cut anything for fear of barber chair. We bore cut large hard leaning old growth but only to minimize stump pull on high value timber. Where/when did this become the safe thing to do? I don't think anyone I ever cut with used bore cuts as a safe option. It just seems so weird to me

[Brian_Rhoad]

Check these YouTube videos. This guy bore cuts almost every tree.

David Bezdek

[Ianab]

Where/when did this become the safe thing to do? I don't think anyone I ever cut with used bore cuts as a safe option. It just seems so weird to me

You do it to avoid situations like this, posted by a member a few days ago. Not every tree needs to be cut that way, but when you do need it, it could save your life. It's also taught in the official OSH approved chainsaw 101 course here in NZ. If he had bore cut that tree, it would not have split out like that. 

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=121300.0

Another big advantage is that you get to set up your hinge wood Before the tree even thinks about moving, you aren't messing around racing to complete your cut as the top of the tree starts to move, and possibly shed widow makers on your head. When you cut the holding strap on a leaner, you can get clear right away. Depending on what you are cutting you may seldom need to use the technique, nice straight pine trees behave themselves just fine with a conventional notch and back cut. Use that on the local cypress and you will soon have more "excitement" than you want. 


A local guy was killed by a barber chair while cutting a large cypress. They are often leaning, and known to split easily. This one did as he was walking behind the tree, picked him up and mashed him into the next tree. Killed instantly.  The bore cutting technique pretty much removes the risk of that happening. 

[rusticretreater]

I bore cut quite often as I think it is the safest way to fell a tree.  After making the main bore cut, you can then expand the edges of the bore towards the rear of the tree.  You then insert wedges and drive them as deep as you can.  This will keep it from doing dangerous things like a barber's chair.  As Ianab said, the hinge is created so the trunk will not shatter or split prior to the fall.

If you need to wedge the tree over to fell it safely you can bore from the rear of the tree to meet the main bore, either straight in or at angles to the main bore and drive in more wedges.  So you have pressure pushing the tree the direction you want it to go before you cut the holding strap of wood.

Yeah, I mangle some wedges but I also cut my risk significantly.

[Walnut Beast]

Well said Ianab! Very good examples how the cut can be used in conjunction with other cuts! Must have been a little cold the day you did your video. I could see your breath 😊

[Nealm66]

Well, from my experience, it's not the bore cut preventing the chair. It's the cutting of the side straps or corners if you prefer. I confess, I've never watched any videos. I'd sure like to see one of these professionals in a steep blowdown patch showing me how it's done. Or maybe a topping a hard leaning big cotton wood. I'm pretty sure they're going to have to come up with a different video. Maybe trees one the east side or New Zealand don't alligator as easy as the do where I'm at. 

[Nealm66]

I bore cut quite often as I think it is the safest way to fell a tree.  After making the main bore cut, you can then expand the edges of the bore towards the rear of the tree.  You then insert wedges and drive them as deep as you can.  This will keep it from doing dangerous things like a barber's chair.  As Ianab said, the hinge is created so the trunk will not shatter or split prior to the fall.

If you need to wedge the tree over to fell it safely you can bore from the rear of the tree to meet the main bore, either straight in or at angles to the main bore and drive in more wedges.  So you have pressure pushing the tree the direction you want it to go before you cut the holding strap of wood.

Yeah, I mangle some wedges but I also cut my risk significantly.

There are better methods 

[Nealm66]

Im not trying to be a butthead. Im just trying to get the truth out. These bore cuts are not the safest and I just can't stand seeing them promoted as such by folks that really don't have the background to be doing so. It would literally only take a couple really bad situations to figure this out

[beenthere]

Nealm66
You have, as well as many of us, something to learn. If you don't need it, and have a method that works well for you, by all means use it. 

But to poo poo bore cutting doesn't fly. Similar to those who poo poo using seat belts, or walk through Central Park in NYC, and say "nothing happened to me" so stop trying to scare me. Maybe not a good example, but hope you get the drift. 

I've watched loggers and tree fellers, such as nuts319 videos, that don't bore cut but accomplish the same results as what bore cutting will do to more safely drop a leaning tree. His methods are very hard to teach. 
Bore cutting is not hard to teach (for those who want to learn). I dropped trees for years and never lost my head from a barber chair (had several but was lucky that I was not in the line of fire when they kicked up in the air). 
Then in the early 70's, learned from Soren Eriksson in a demonstration in my woods, how to bore cut as well as other useful techniques. His techniques are ingrained in the GOL (Game of Logging) which are good education/learning experiences for beginner tree fallers and occasional logger wanna-bee's.

The professional logger likely doesn't need the training of a new method. 

One of many video's showing bore cutting. 
DANGEROUS TREES! Severe Lean, How to fell a tree with hard lean - YouTube

[mudfarmer]

Just want to throw out there that borecutting itself will not prevent a barber chair, if you do it wrong. I once left the hinge too thick on a cherry that was a -severe- leaner and when the hold wood was cut it split real bad.

Every tree and situation is different, except they are all dangerous. Stay safe out there and keep an open mind

[Nealm66]

Just want to throw out there that borecutting itself will not prevent a barber chair, if you do it wrong. I once left the hinge too thick on a cherry that was a -severe- leaner and when the hold wood was cut it split real bad.

Every tree and situation is different, except they are all dangerous. Stay safe out there and keep an open mind

This is exactly what I'm saying. Thank you. It's the pre cutting of the side straps and making sure the back cut meets the side cuts that is preventing the barber chair. And yes, there is positively better ways about it. I'm just asking to be aware that a bore cut will prevent stump pull. It doesn't prevent barber chairs. If there is a lot of pressure a bore cut is not safe

[stavebuyer]

I guess bore cutting must describe more than one procedure. If the center is truly "bored out" then there is nothing left to split. Guess I must be doing it wrong.  :

[TMunetsi]

Very educative video. 

Does anyone know companies that sell lodgepole pine seeds?

I am supporting a small village in Africa to grow trees with future value.

Kind regards,

Tanu 

[Larry]

I've found when using a long bar, especially one that will reach through the tree I have to be on my toes to avoid pinching that long bar.  A 20" bar is fine for any of the trees in north Arkansas but I prefer a 24".

Besides the standard bore cut, sometimes I'll bore the hinge and cut the side straps.  Until I release the tree by cutting the back strap its three point suspension like my stools!  Nothing to barber chair or splinter pull.

[treemuncher]

I was taught the "open face bore cut" method or something like it at the Master Logger certification school that I attended back in the mid 90's. I was green with a saw at that time so I learned from the instructions, implemented them religiously and I have been able to safely cut since learning those techniques. Many thanks to the Tennessee Forestry Association for offering that class. The only tree that has nearly gotten me since then was a badly leaning willow where I overcut my bore and did not leave enough meat for the back cut. My bad. Fortunately for me, it was just an eye opening moment with a near miss and a quick lesson learned. I don't always use this method but if the tree is anything questionable, I always face it then bore cut to set my hinge width. The final cut starts from the back side ALWAYS in order to prevent stump pull or barber chair. I will often bore 90 degrees to and through the hinge in order to set a wedge when needed - another trick taught at that school. It was the best $100 I ever invested in my education. It saved me thousands in potential medical costs and insurance claims.

That class also taught me hardhat, glasses, saw chaps and safety brake. Gloves I learned from a severe impact injury with surgery to my left hand. When running my saw, the chain brake is set after EVERY cut. It never comes off until I'm in position and ready to make a cut and after the cut is completed, the brake is on again. I was really glad I started that practice the day I tripped and landed headfirst onto the bar with the saw running. Another day I cut through my first set of chaps and into my jeans, but not my skin, made me a believer to wear the things no matter how hot they are. As it is, I always work alone which breaks rule #1 with a saw. No sense in breaking the other rules if I really want to make it home. Take the time to do it right and do it safe, you will likely make it home that night.

As for the bar length, I run a 20", 28" and a 52". I used all three sizes on my 272 before it was stolen. I still keep the same 3 sizes for my newer 385xp. 85% of the time, the 28" bar is on the head and that gets anything up to 45"+. The 52" is hated due to the imbalance and weight although it makes life easier with really big trees. It's only used if I really have to have it, which is fairly rare, and it comes off as soon as possible. The 20" has great balance and is perfect for firewood and smaller trees under 36" at the cut but sometimes it's just easier to deal with the added weight and get the reach of the 28". Bar size makes no difference when initializing a bore cut - always start at the lower bar tip position and start cutting a slot. Once the slot is started and deep enough, the bar can't jump out and you can apply heavy cut pressure, safely.

[mudfarmer]

I guess bore cutting must describe more than one procedure. If the center is truly "bored out" then there is nothing left to split. Guess I must be doing it wrong.  :

If this is to me, I was referring to hinge too thick, this can definitely split, vertically up the tree at the back of the hinge and that's what I was trying to describe. Like when a barber chair happens because you werent or couldn't be chasing the back cut fast enough.
Like Larry and others mentioned punching out the heart and cutting the side straps is probably additional to the "bore cut" taught as just boring in behind your face to set the hinge width. It also seems to be good practice and something I employ regularly after talking to folks on here.
As always great discussion

[Nealm66]

So how exactly are you guys boring out the center on a loaded leaner? I'd really like to see this. Or are these trees not that big or not fresh hard leaning hardwoods? Or maybe the woods just not as explosive as it is on this side? 

[barbender]

Neal, you guys in the PNW deal with completely different timber than anyone else in North America. While my hat is off to anyone that falls timber out there and the knowledge it requires, I don't appreciate the condescending attitude that I often see from PNW fallers. 

 I would have to do a lot of learning to come out there and fall timber. I might not even have what it takes. Conversely, I'd like to see you come here and cut. I bet you'd change a lot of the way you do things, too. Methods developed for timber that is measured in feet at dbh probably wouldn't work that well in timber measured in inches at dbh.