pinus resinosa

[L. Wakefield]

   As an offshoot of the balsam poplar thread- I'd been checking refs on pinus resinosa- and came across a great one called 'bad pine jokes'... such gems as- 'stop needling me, Dickson'..'is this a case of pinus envy?'..
'coupla coneheads, you two'.. 'Listen, knothead'..
'Forget it, you guys, time to spruce up your act'...'but he won't listen to resin'..'I think it's time to pitch these guys'.. 'You're right, I'm tarred of all this'..

  Sheesh, they must have had to rest up for a week after thinking up all those gems!    LW

[Ron Scott]

Has anyone noted red pine trees growning cones and providing viable seed before 12-15 years of age, usually the minimum age as stated in The Silviculture of North America?

[Jeff]

Ron,
  When we talked a couple weeks ago you commented on a case you were working on regarding DNA testing of pine trees to determine an answer in a dispute of ownership. It sounded extremely interesting to me and I would like to hear the whole story, as I am sure others would too.

Are you able to talk about this at this point? I understand that an active case might limit what you can say.

[Ron Scott]

It is quite a complicated case and still in court. My above question relates to it. Part of the land ownership dispute was whether red pine trees were planted or were they wild seedlings in the adverse possession part of the case. DNA testing was being considered as a last resort and if judge requested it, but not done yet due to cost etc. and if a ruling could be made. The judge has currently ruled that planted red pine trees would have been obvious on the landscape to the disputing landowner and would have provided sufficient notice of any adverse land use as claimed by the other party for possession of the land. Since the planting of red pine trees was not obvious to the landscape, the trees were ruled wild seedlings, per my expert witnes testimony. The case is still going on however, so can't get into it to much except that that part may have been put to bed for now, I hope.

[Jeff]

I have several questions on this. Let me know when we can dive in.......

[Forester Frank]

L. Wakefield:

Hardy har har! I have been pining for some good jokes.

Ron:

P. resinosa seems to have a hard time seeding in naturally. Frequency I mean. Unlike p. stobus that seems to have no problems.

Of course red pine requires more light than white pine.

Here's my question. I see the DNR leave more and more residual pine when they mark their timber sales (modified aspen CC). They tell me it is a for seed source. However, I rarely see any natural regeneration of red pine in these stands. The aspen out competes it.

I would feel better if they would just say that it is for aesthetics. What is your take on it?

Forester Frank

[Ron Wenrich]

I'm a little south of the red pine range and I've only seen a few plantations within the range.

Juvenille hardwood growths will always outgrow pines.  Could they be letting the red pine seed in and take the aspen out as a TSI operation?

Red pine needs bare mineral soil for the best germination.  But, the problem is, it only produces abundant seeds every 3 to 5 years.  It will not germinate on sod or under brush.

[Forester Frank]

Yea. I agree with your reply Ron.

Funny thing is - today I say some tremendous red pine natural regen on private land. The stand was fairly well stocked and had been thinned about 7 years ago.

Probably had enough soil disturbance and a good seed year for germination to occur.

I have not seen a lot of success in red pine seed tree cuts. It seems that they almost need a little bit of shade/shelter. The regen I saw today was on the north side of the stand of all places.

Your thoughts? Anyone. Anyone.

[Ron Scott]

It really depends upon the site (ecosystem)as to its favorability for red pine or hardwoods. Many of the red pine plantations here are slowly converting to hardwoods after their first and second thinnings because they were planted on hardwood sites. The DNR is probably leaving the included red pine to soften the total clear-cut appearance so aesthetics is probably a primary reason in an aspen clear cut since the stand prescription would be aspen regenerastion. However in a red pine ecosystem where red pine regeneration is the prescription with proper site preparation, red pine seed trees may be left. The "true" clear-cuts just aren't being done much. Aesthetics and landscape ecology is playing a dominant role in timber management on public lands.

[Don_Pridgen]

Hi Guys,I'm new to this and computers in general as my signature attests, Jeff I'll never backtalk to your computer again if you will fix my signature, mom,s on the way with the soap. Anyway, I build log homes. We used a new supplier on a project in WI last fall. The logs were to my eye E White Pine, Red Pine and White Fir. The red pine well ... sucked. It had major blue stain and coffee stain the stock was air dry to 17-22%. Then you remember the run of wet around August, the spores were happy to see it. We got it knocked down with Borates but some of that wood was about to go hairy. Meanwhile the other woods just sat there unperturbed. Also the red twisted more...alot more than the others. Is this typical, both the high fungal content and the twisting or was that an unusual batch. We avoid SYP because of the twisting I've been told it is due to the orientation of the fibers in the second ply of the cell wall being too diagonal in SYP.I'm just a carpenter so that worked for me. Is that correct, is that the reason for the twisting I saw in the red. What I'm asking is should I fire red and if so why.