Fencing Corner Posts

[Ironhead80]

Hello,

       I am in the process of building some fence around a section of my property and have a question. It will just be a 4 strand barbwire fence to establish the boundary line mainly as I won't have any cattle or livestock that will be pushing against it. I have 2 runs of a little less than 300' each.  I have my corner posts set already and I am using 8-10" diameter locust posts set 3' deep  with about 6" of gravel at the base of the posts. I am tamping them in with a spud bar as I think that makes for stronger post than setting them with concrete.  These suckers are set good, I can push against them with all I got and I can't even budge them.  My question is do I really need to make H braces at the corners for such short runs since my corner posts are so big and stout?

[WV Sawmiller]

   Depends on how tight you want the wire to stay and how hard packed the ground is. You are probably okay.

   I would be thrilled if I could get a fence posthole that big and deep here where I live. To do so in this rocky terrain would require a jackhammer and/or dynamite.

[Ironhead80]

I wont be making them as tight as I would if I had cattle in there. I just like the looks of the barbwire is why I was going with it. Well this is the easy side and is way up on the hill and is mostly hard packed red clay where the 2 lines are now that I am working. Down in the bottom where im going next is mostly rock and I will have a hard time down there. The neighbor that did the original fence about 50 years ago suggested I pull the old posts and use the old holes for those as he said he had to use a spud bar on about every one of them.

[Magicman]

It's not about cows pushing, it is about the load that will be exerted on the corner post.  Yes, absolutely brace them.  The wire will be much tighter than you imagine and just the weight of the 4 strands is a load in itself.  It's a corner so that load will be exerted from two directions.  Personally, I would put another H fixture mid way between the corners.

[red]

I have heard of putting an engine block about 4 ft below soil and running a small cable up to the top of the post ?

[Gary_C]

Yes, absolutely brace them. The tension of the wires over time will move any corner post that is not braced. I prefer the angle brace to the bottom of the next post rather than the H brace.

[Ironhead80]

You talking about an N type brace? Would i just use post nails and nail the brace post to the corners?

[Gary_C]

The easiest way to make the angle brace is to buy the formed steel brace that you lag into the corner post at the top and the next post near the ground. Then you add the heavy twisted wire in an X fashion diagonally to the steel brace. That braces the top of the corner post against the ground at the next post.

[Ironhead80]

Im not sure i have ever seen those. Where could i get them at? Is there a specific name for them?

[Magicman]

Yes, the N (push brace) is much stronger.  Notch the tops of the corner post and the bottoms of the 2nd post to receive the brace poles.  Wire will then be used from the top of the 2nd post to the bottom of the corner post.

[Gary_C]

I guess that recommendation dates me because apparently they do not make those anymore. Most people just made their own angle braces with a stiff piece or pipe or angle with a end that was crimped flat and bent at the proper angle. What I do find is steel pins to hold the horizontal brace (H) brace in place. Here is a good reference for building fence.  How to Install High Tensile Barbed Wire and Field Fence

Bracing is a method of transferring the tension in the top wires down to ground level and the whole purpose of the brace is to prevent the top of the corner post from moving in the direction of the pull of the tension.  The angle brace does this by using the lower part of the next post as an anchor. The H type brace uses the base of the corner post as an anchor thru the horizontal part and then back to the bottom of the corner post with the twisted wire.

Both methods work but in places where we have high organic soils and frost heaving having two posts carry the tension is better than one big one.

[WV Sawmiller]

   A technique my son often uses is to cut a brace pole to fit between the corner and next line post. He then drills a 1/2" hole about halfway up the post on each post and a similar hole centered on each end of the brace pole with a cordless drill and 3-4 inches deep. He cuts about a 6" piece of 1/2" rebar or whatever other metal rod he has handy and puts in each end of the brace pole. He inserts the rebar in the hole in the post and the end of the brace as a dowel which keeps the brace pole parallel to the deck. If both your posts are already set you'd have to drill completely through the line post and use a longer rod to get it in. This holds the pole up till tightened. He then wraps several loops of heavy wire (clothesline or barb wire if all you have) with one loop at the top of the corner/gate post and the other at the bottom of the line post. You may want to cut a shallow notch/groove on the back sides with a chainsaw so the wire doesn't slip. He then inserts a short length of wood (24-30 inches long) about 2-3 inches in diameter and centered between the loops and starts twisting till the wire in the loops is tight. When tight enough he makes sure the twist stick is tight against the brace pole to make sure it does not unwind. If you wanted to do the N brace this way you could put a second set of loops from the top of the line post to the bottom of the corner/gate post and do the same thing.

[Gary_C]

    He then wraps several loops of heavy wire (clothesline or barb wire if all you have) with one loop at the top of the corner/gate post and the other at the bottom of the line post. You may want to cut a shallow notch/groove on the back sides with a chainsaw so the wire doesn't slip. He then inserts a short length of wood (24-30 inches long) about 2-3 inches in diameter and centered between the loops and starts twisting till the wire in the loops is tight. When tight enough he makes sure the twist stick is tight against the brace pole to make sure it does not unwind.

Sorry but the wire put in that way will not help brace the top of the corner post, it will actually put more tension on the top of the corner post.

The N brace diagonal as you describe it which is the opposite diagonal is the correct way to add the twisted wire.

[mesquite buckeye]

I've seen H braces made with all wood, then the twist wire thing added to keep it from racking. I haven't seen one fail and I've seen a lot of fence. ;D

[chevytaHOE5674]

I probably have close to 100 H braces on the farm with railroad ties sunk at least 4' deep spaced 10' apart with a 4x6 between them for the horizontal brace. There are 5 strands of high tensile wire strung on them and haven't had any move or fail yet. The foundation of your fence is the corner, you wouldn't cheap out on the foundation of your house or barn would you?

[drobertson]

I agree with those that say brace,, either way,  "N" or "H" 

[SLawyer Dave]

I don't know if this is the "right" way, but my grandfather who put in probably hundreds of miles of fencing in his day, taught me a very simple and efficient way to brace corner posts.  I have 25 year old fences still standing with straight and true corners, so I also know it works.  Even better with this forum, it involves using a chain saw.  No deadmen, sleepers, or buried engine blocks necessary.   

This works for any "corner" wood post, no matter the angle of the change, or what type of fencing posts you use.  Take a 2x4 (preferably pressure treated), that is longer than the gap between the corner post and the next fence post.  Prop it against both posts at approximately a 45% angle, (with the high end going into the corner post), and mark both posts where you want the brace to attach.   

If the fence post is metal, (like a "T" post), then notch the end of the 2x4 so that the flange will side into it just at ground level.  If metal pipe, cut out a rough radius that will snug up against the post.  If using round wooden posts, then cut a shallow "notch" at that 45% angle so that the 2x4 can set into the notch just above ground level.

Then place the 2x4 into the 'notch' or flange as described above, and prop it against the corner post.  Whether a square post or round post, mark the corner post for where you need to attack the 2x4.  Then cut a shallow notch at that 45% angle into the corner post that the 2x4 can slide into.  Then put the 2x4 back in place to determine where to cut it at a 45% angle, so that it will slip into the notch on the corner post.  I always cut about a 1/4 inch longer than will fit.  Then I can slide, press or hammer it in place, and do the same on the other side which will give me the inherent tension to keep everything stuck in place.  Its quick, easy, and really after just a few, you won't even need to mark, you will just use the chain saw to mark, cut and adjust as you need.  Then when you string the wire, the tension will actually pull those joints together with tremendous force.  I don't bother nailing or screwing such braces, because the tension of the fence holds everything in place.

Last year, I volunteered to help put up some 4' high sheep fencing for a herding trial location.  I went out with my saw and lumber, and started doing the corner posts like this without thought.  Afterwards, people were saying they had never seen it done like that, and they couldn't believe how quickly I could set corner posts. 

This same system can be used for end posts, (like for gates). 

For a real high tension fence, you can also use 4x4s in place of the 2x4s.

 

[Fundyheather]

May want to compute winter shrinkage against the mid summer day install temperature.

[DDW_OR]

SLawyer Dave, do you have any photos?
I am putting in 2 fences, first is 3,000 feet the second is 14,000 feet, both in hilly wooded