Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[kantuckid]

not available everywhere, but interesting, they are monitoring viral load in the sewer systems to access the amount in a community.  so if you think this is a bunch of crap... :D

They've been monitoring the U of KY dorm sewers since school started back. 

[doc henderson]

I know the general concept is to protect front line workers and the vulnerable.  i do not know, or know who, knows the details.  I can tell you the monoclonal antibody came out, we got it over the weekend, and on Monday I had given 2 doses.  sometimes things are great.  availability is the issue like everything else regarding a brand new virus.  

[Sedgehammer]

Here are some covid-19 vaccine questions:

It's in todays news that of the number of Pfizer vaccinations available by end of year 2020 @ 50 million, they say half don't go to the USA (where we paid in advance for a vaccine).
We are told they go, as they logically should to front line healthcare workers and seniors.
Google tells me that there were ~ 40 million seniors in USA 2010 (would be more now) and ~ 18 million healthcare workers.
Obvious question is- Who gets the free shots first?  
Where do the other half of the Pfizer shots go that my younger family members won't get?
Who's in line for the Moderna shots?
Does Moderna have the same deal set up with the USA gvnmt?
I have some other questions in my mind but they (very heavily indeed) enter the realm of politics.

First to get that want it. 

Look at age and comorbidity group that's most effected. Start there and work backwards. 

Those under 65 without comorbidities, don't really need it anyways, but of course, should be offered if available. 

My mother in law might get it (65), but the rest of us as of right now, will not. 

[doc henderson]

If it turns out the immunity from the virus only lasts 3 or 4 months, then even people who had it, may need/want the vaccine.  Remember we may still be immune, even if the antibody levels drop.  If someone gets it, but gets an infusion of antibody, they may not have a good natural immune response.  saves them from the infection, but makes them vulnerable for the next time.  lots to learn.  The vaccine amounts are estimates, so there may be more or less.

[doc henderson]

the only reason to give it most everyone, is to shut down the spread.  if the vaccine works, then it will be the unvaccinated that will be able to be a host and spread it.  that would be the reason to give it to the less vulnerable.  kids getting really sick is rare compared to the older folks.  the rare major complication is of course a big deal if it is your kid.  If we in theory (and I do not think so) can get it every 4 month over and over, then it will never go away without the vaccine.  it (vaccine) will be to keep immunity until there is no host for the virus.  

[Claybraker]

Here are some covid-19 vaccine questions:

It's in todays news that of the number of Pfizer vaccinations available by end of year 2020 @ 50 million, they say half don't go to the USA (where we paid in advance for a vaccine).
We are told they go, as they logically should to front line healthcare workers and seniors.
Google tells me that there were ~ 40 million seniors in USA 2010 (would be more now) and ~ 18 million healthcare workers.
Obvious question is- Who gets the free shots first?  
Where do the other half of the Pfizer shots go that my younger family members won't get?
Who's in line for the Moderna shots?
Does Moderna have the same deal set up with the USA gvnmt?
I have some other questions in my mind but they (very heavily indeed) enter the realm of politics.

here's an excerpt from a recent 11/16 interview with Dr Fauci and Bill Gates
. 
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI (GUEST): Yeah. It hasn't been officially determined yet. Usually health care providers, those who put themselves in harm's way of taking care of people. Then there are those who have underlying conditions, the elderly with underlying conditions particularly, that we know lead to an adverse outcome. Then, people who are essential workers in society, to make society work well. And then you have older people who may not have underlying conditions but just are risky because they're elderly. Then you get students. And then you get everybody else. There's five layers. That isn't the definitive one yet. They haven't fully decided. But if they do it the way they've done it in the past, that's the way it'll be.

[Sedgehammer]

the only reason to give it most everyone, is to shut down the spread.  if the vaccine works, then it will be the unvaccinated that will be able to be a host and spread it.  that would be the reason to give it to the less vulnerable.  kids getting really sick is rare compared to the older folks.  the rare major complication is of course a big deal if it is your kid.  If we in theory (and I do not think so) can get it every 4 month over and over, then it will never go away without the vaccine.  it (vaccine) will be to keep immunity until there is no host for the virus.  

Yes, agreed. I am not an anti vaccination person what so ever. Thought here is this is a very new vaccine and even though tested, any long term issues have not presented themselves. Those that are elderly and risk death, any long term possible negative effect is weighed against immediate benefit, vaccine wins every time.  

[kantuckid]

I've wondered about the vaccine for certain, close to the end seniors such as my MIL, age 96 and been in last stage of alzheimers for several years. She and everyone who provides the in-home 24/7 care she requires is a senior themselves and IMO far more the important recipient of a covid vaccine. 
Our local nursing home has zero cases in staff or residents. Seems like the staff there would be a more important vaccine recipient than the old folks?
I heard a doc on TV last night telling about how the way these new vaccines work is novel in itself and might hold promise for cancer and other maladies. 

[doc henderson]

I agree.  we will know a lot more in 10 years!  When my docs ask what is the plan?  after I answer several time I finally remind them "it is a world wide pandemic"  and we are doing the best we can with what we have.  we are kinda on our own, there is no one to call for help.  everyone is in the same boat.  it is a modern day disaster.  We will survive.

[kantuckid]

Not to open a can of worms but during WWII the determinations of who's essential became a point of angry discussion. My best friends Dad, a really great guy and firefighter all his adult life, got a deferment cause he drove a hogs to market truck. 
So the mechanic who keeps a nurse or doctors car in service gets the vaccine? Stuff like that will come up me thinks. 
When I was in counselor training we used senarios such as who gets the lifeboat, who gets the heart transplant, etc. to supposedly learn to deal with life affecting stuff our clients might be dealing with. I remember some participants getting emotionally charged with make believe settings that I could detach myself from w/o being cold hearted either.
 Covid-19 does conjure up some of that sort of emotion. 
I think there some friction between our twin sons as ones family plans to visit us for Thanksgiving while the other does not. Both have a full set of grandparents involved. The ones coming from AL, he works at home totally as a CEO above his garage in an office, his wife is a stay at home Mom and one child is in pre-school the other a toddler. The ones not coming from TN are an elementary teacher and engineer office/construction project manager who's in and out lately was at home mostly until lately and 3 elementary kids. Our oldest is single now and will stay in TX for holidays. 

[doc henderson]

there are the theoretical 2 code blue patients at the same time.  without mitigation, this could have been worse.  At FEMA with a theoretical dirty bomb,  the hospital doors are locked and 50 people screaming and pounding on the doors to get in,  It is really pitiful with their southern accents and all-ya-all's and all.  If we let them in before de-con, we all get sick and loose the war in the long run.  Some tough decisions, do you amputate the child's leg to get them out of the rubble.  do you turn away anyone over 65, 75, 55... years old cause we need the medicine/beds/treatment for future generations to come and save the young people.  it is the stuff that movies are made of.  In stark triage you have an area for the walking wounded that will survive their injuries but are screaming in a panic for help.  you also move on when you find a terribly injured person, that in a perfect setting might survive, but consume so much time and (limited) supplies that you move on to someone who will survive with your limited resources, who otherwise would not.  If medical/first responders/military ever seem odd in their responses/demeanor it is because of training and education of all the possibilities.  I would look at mitigating the same as rationing food and fuel around WW2.  A pharmacist my wife works with, who hosted the WM Christmas party last year, at age 65 has now been on a ventilator for a week.  otherwise healthy.  I get inches from known + patients every day I work.  I sat in the chair, and used the computer that my + doc partner used.  I still have not had it to my knowledge.  and I cannot socially distance and care for someone who needs a tube in their airway.  so mask/papr and sanitize in and out or each room.  knock on wood.  if you work alone in the woods, you are good.  If not, maybe we could still come in second for the greatest generation.  God bless

[doc henderson]

as an aside, I did get to deliver a baby while I was at Anniston.  dad about 18, mom in her sixties.  BOOM! out popped a baby.  I even got a special sticker.     .  I was laughing so hard, I almost (did to be honest) cried.  

[Sedgehammer]

as an aside, I did get to deliver a baby while I was at Aniston.  dad about 18, mom in her sixties.  BOOM! out popped a baby.  I even got a special sticker.     .  I was laughing so hard, I almost (did to be honest) cried.  

I just want to make sure there is no typo. Can you say that again. Dad was 18, mom was in her sixties..... Boom. 

[doc henderson]

true.  (scenario)  it is the south!   :D :D :D

[barbender]

I don't know if I should be more surprised at the age gap, or that the mom was still able to get pregnant in her 60's!? My Mom had her last at 47, I was her first at 19. So there's 28 years between me and my baby sister😮 She seems more like a niece to me than a sister, she's younger than 2 of my kids😊 I'm closer in age to my Dad and Mom, than I am to two of my sisters. Dad was only 17 when I was born. Looking back, I can't imagine all the things I put the guy through when he was still a kid himself🤷🏽‍♂️

[red]

Just the Facts ?  Next we will be talking about Chickens 

[Sedgehammer]

Here's some facts, no chickens. 

We're cookin pretty good here. Last few weeks were 1.5%+ dod except 2 or 3 days. 



 

[Raider Bill]

I like chicken. :D

[alan gage]

Took off from work for an hour this morning and just got back to find our lead tech gone. He got a call from his mother saying she was in the hospital and that she wanted to see him. He said she sounded very confused. He took off to go see her and got a call from the hospital enroute saying that she'd tested positive for Covid so no point in coming since he can't see her anyway. He eats lunch with her every day so he'll be away from work for a couple weeks.

Not quite sure what he'll do about his wife, as far as distancing, who has COPD and is regularly in and out of the emergency room with respiratory problems.

Alan

[Ianab]

Our local nursing home has zero cases in staff or residents. Seems like the staff there would be a more important vaccine recipient than the old folks?

That would make sense as vaccinating the staff first would also protect the old folks. So yes, start there. 

But then the oldies need the vaccine eventually so they can open up the rest homes and have visitors again. (Normal life) 

Here in NZ I can see it going first to the border workers. Aircrew / Port Workers / Isolation Hotel staff etc as those are the folks that are occasionally getting infected here. I can also see that Vaccination will be a requirement to travel internationally for some time. The Govt can't really force vaccination on people, But they sure as heck can make it a health requirement for anyone entering the country. It's kind of a small distinction, they aren't saying you HAVE to get vaccinated, but if you don't then you wont get into the country. 

The vaccine(s) being released wont instantly end the pandemic though, because it's going to take months to produce and distribute enough doses to be effective. The vaccine's release is just the light at the end of the tunnel. 

[gspren]

At our local hospital and their outlying clinics Flu shots are mandatory every year if you want to keep your job, I think the covid vaccine will be the same.

[Old Greenhorn]

as an aside, I did get to deliver a baby while I was at Aniston.  dad about 18, mom in her sixties.  BOOM! out popped a baby.  I even got a special sticker.     .  I was laughing so hard, I almost (did to be honest) cried.  

Doc, just to be clear, this was at the training center in Anniston, correct? It was a scenario, right? I sometimes regret that I did not accept the invitation to go down there for COBRA training. I was pretty pleased that I got invited. But frankly the idea of taking your final evaluation evolution with live biological agents that could mess you up, put me off just a tad. Plus my life was pretty busy at that time and I did have to wash my hair that week, so I let it go by.
 I did spend 3 days with a bunch of the trainers that came up to NYS DHS with their trailers with all their toys and went thru the Mass Casualty evolution, Bomb Ident, the full boat decon evolution, and a bunch of others. Long days 8am-10pm everyday with a great bunch of instructors. SO can I assume that is where you were with this 'birth'? or did I just run headlong down the wrong road. I am pretty sure the other readers may have missed that detail either way. Frankly other than a scenario, I am having some trouble with the 60 year old mom and the 18 Y/O Dad. Help me (us) out here.

[kantuckid]

One of my DIL's is from N AL. Anniston, AL has two "n's" in the name but google says thats docs spot? 
I suppose it's interesting that someone 18 was attracted to a 60 year old but truth be known it's no doubt "happened" in a bar near you, north or south? But the baby aspect is a stretch for sure.
I am 20 years older than my youngest KS brother. My wife is 20 years older than her youngest KY sister. 
The best man in my wedding had a younger KS brothe, I graduated with, who worked his way through college @ Washburn in Topeka, KS after they had three kids starting in HS (this was back when girls got kicked out of school if you had a baby) and then the very month he finally got his degree and a new job with Coleman in Wichita she ran off and left him for a guy nearly 60 years old. Weird stuff happens. 

For those who don't know, northern AL is the southern terminus of the Appalachian mtns.. read into that what hasn't been suggested already on docs multi generational baby.
While you hold that thought about Burt Reynolds ala Deliverance movies types of people, consider that Texans such as gritty Don Imus in the Morning TV guy fathered kids late in life to a younger mother as did New Yorker Larry King at an advanced age to a much younger Mom. 
I cannot think of a young guy who hooked up with a senior mother though?

Why would law enforcement or military not be among the first recipients of a new corona virus vaccine? 

[doc henderson]

In the old world before corona, many new vaccines were tested on new recruits.  law enforcement folks are considered first responders.
OK.  so remember, I was in Anniston, AL at FEMA training.  each day we got an email telling us the breakfast would be at 06:37 and the bus would leave at 07:14 to transport to the hospital. This was an re-purposed army base with a bar, cafeteria, and dorms.  We were moved in big white buses with no graphics on the outside.  The dorm area had 10 foot fence and strands of barbed wire.  needed your picture FEMA ID everywhere you go.  the manikins could speak via microphone, and you could ask them questions, with answers coming from the control room.  they breath (or stop breathing) blink their eyes ect.  The folks in the scenarios were actors paid by the US government.  Instructors came from all over the country.  I was asked to be an instructor at the end of training.  All the control room folks and actors that worked there tended to have a southern accent.  We took over 40 people from Wesley and a few hospitals nearby.  The training and scenarios are in the old base hospital.  We also donned full PPE and Papr Ebola style, and walked around for 15 minutes outside.  vitals checked before and after.  They try to get you excited and throw you off your game just like a disaster.  people screaming, missing legs (special cart, real person) makeup and blood.  So in the middle of overwhelming casualties, and more on the way, and the power goes out, down the hallway comes a very pregnant lady on a cart with her young partner holding her hand, they roll up to me yelling about a baby.  I get ready to check her, she parts her leg and a bay (doll) flies out and I catch it!  BOOM.  and one of the instructor comes over with a pink stork sticker and puts it on my badge.  so it appears to be a recurring miracle of life.  BOOM!  I have attended thousands of deliveries, and this one made me tearful.  good training.  i thought only @Old Greenhorn would go down the "really" road.  The guy was over 6 feet tall and 18 looking.  the mom was my age and had a blond wig, and bright red lipstick.  They knew what they were doing and had a good time with it.  The only docs in the group were me and a trauma surgeon.  I think they enjoy trying to get the doc.  I do not remember the sex of the child, but i am sure (they said) they would name the baby after me!  

[Sedgehammer]

Why would law enforcement or military not be among the first recipients of a new corona virus vaccine?

From what I know of my time in the army and elsewhere (gov) I suspect they have their own separate  'vat' being cooked up, but 'we' won't be told about it until maybe later.