Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[Ianab]

While its true we can achieve herd immunity to this virus with 30% of folks not getting the vaccine thereby reducing it to less than a pandemic, we cannot achieve it if too many do not get it.  It can be said that those getting the virus and gaining immunity are contributing to the herd immunity, but at what cost to some of them.  Herd immunity is what eradicated polio.  I will be getting the vaccine as soon as it is offered to me.

And the better the herd immunity, the faster the virus will be suppressed, and we can all get back to a more normal life. At 60% the virus gradually dies out. At 80% (90% of people getting a 90% effective shot) the virus will be shut down much faster. 
It's also expected that even cases where the vaccine doesn't prevent the disease, it should make it "milder" as your immune system has "some" head start on fighting off the virus. None of the small number vaccine testers that did catch the virus  got it seriously, although the numbers aren't enough to confirm this. It may have just been chance at this point. 
Lastly there will be a % of people that can't get the shot for actual medical reasons. They are also the ones most likely to die. Best way to protect them is for everyone else to become immune, then they no longer get exposed to the virus. 
We are still planning on travelling to the Islands next year, and I expect being vaccinated will be a requirement of getting on the plane.  Cook Islands have had zero cases so far, and will want to keep it that way. 

[doc henderson]

we do not know.  I would say not, if the antigen used to make the vaccine is the same as the one the body reacts to.  a natural immunity to the virus may produce thousands of antibodies reacting to different components.  and just producing antibodies to and man made vaccine may not slow or stop the virus, unless it destroys the viral cell, or stops attachment to the host cells.  we have monoclonal antibodies that bypass natural immunity and stop the attachment of the virus to the host cell to insert genetic material to make new viruses.  we do not know that if you are positive and get the monoclonal antibody, then it may reduce natural immunity.  only time will tell.  they will need to test and see if the virus produces and long lasting immunity, then vaccine may not be needed, but then everyone may need tested prior to the vaccine.  and if the immunity only lasts 6 months. will it be boosted by the vaccine.  we need everyone to get it in the same time frame so the number of hosts can be reduced to nil. good question and one that will need to be decided on even if they do not have the full answer at the time.  

[Ianab]

Ok Doc so I have a question. If someone has had COVID-19 and recovered will they still get or need the vaccine? I have more questions but will wait until later.
Thanks,

Brent

Not the Doc, but I think that's "unclear". There have been cases of people getting re-infected, and there are also questions about how long the effect of the vaccine will last. 
But that also brings the herd immunity up. Once enough people have either had the shots (or recovered from the virus) then it shouldn't be actively circulating. So it's less important if your immunity does drop off over time. Same way as it only being 90% effective doesn't mean it wont work.
But of course no one has been able to study long term resistance yet because the virus has only  been a "thing" for ~12 months. It's possible people will need a booster shot, or a new vaccine will be needed for a different strain, or a whole new virus could jump out of the woodwork. 
So a lot of things aren't completely clear yet. 

[firefighter ontheside]

As few documented cases as there are, with considering the millions that have had it, the handfull of re-infections must be either false positives, folks who had a very mild case at first or even folks who were retested too soon after recovering.  Its a dog example, but it makes the point.  When a dog gets heartworm, it continues to test positive for heartworm for a long time after recovering.

[DbltreeBelgians]

Thank you gentlemen. I have other questions but I'll hold off for now. Just loaded my elderly handicapped father in a squad and transported him to the hospital. He's lived in my home since I flew to Florida during hurricane Irma and drove him and my mom to Ohio. He tested positive and pneumonia in both lungs. My wife is feeling rough and I have minor symptoms. Family doc ordered test for both of us after doing a Tele-med call with my dad and requesting he go to the ER. He has COPD and emphysema. Old school firefighter who had smoked since he was a teen and quit about 15 or 20 years ago but the damages were done. He had made several trips by public transport to doctors visits in the past few weeks so we're wondering if that's where all this may have started. 
Mom passed in June from COPD and emphysema. She tested negative. I held her hand and watched her labor to take he last breath. At least Hospice was here to make her comfortable.
Dad misses her terribly and has told me he's ready to cash in his chips.
Hard to hear him say that.
More later, I'm kinda bummed.

Brent

[doc henderson]

that is a lot of loss Brent.  sorry to hear.  hope for your dad.

[DbltreeBelgians]

Thank you sir.
I was going to pm you earlier when I saw you were online but opted not too. You have enough on your plate. I appreciate you answering everyone's questions on this thread. 
I'm pretty sure of the result of my test whenever they do it. Probably tomorrow. I have a slight headache, a little cough and in the last few hours I've noticed my taste is mostly gone. Guess I'm gonna lose a little weight. No fun eating when ya can't taste anything.

Brent

[doc henderson]

God bless.  please reach out if I can help in any way.  i think all the patients I have tested with loss of taste and smell, have tested +.

[firefighter ontheside]

I'm sorry to hear all of that Brent.  That's a lot for one guy to take.  Sorry for the loss of your mom and I hope your dad recovers.  Of course take care of yourself.  I have great hope that the coming vaccines will be the beginning of the end to all this.

[firefighter ontheside]

That's what I'm banking on, Doc.  I have had a couple periods of scratchy throat and chest congestion these past months, but I have never lost my sense of taste or smell.  Fever is the easiest sign to detect, but clearly its not always present.

[doc henderson]

fever is fairly non specific, but taste and smell...  I have had several symptoms off and on, and you lay awake at night wondering, but I am neg. for the antigen and antibodies.  so do not have it, and have not had it per se.

[DbltreeBelgians]

Kinda the reason for my question on post 1174 in regards to the vaccine.
I had a slight scratchy throat a couple days ago but blamed it on dryness in the house. Wishful thinking. Lol. I've had no fever. Actually been low at around 96.8 to 97.1
Now my bride, that's a different story. She was at 101.1, same as my dad.
We'll just ride out the storm and see how things go.
Thanks for the kind words. You all are great.

Brent 

[Old Greenhorn]

Brent, I am sorry you have to walk the path you are on. I walked a similar path just a few years ago and it took everything I had and all the love I could muster. It was worth the effort, but it was very difficult at the time though and no regrets, but I admit it took a lot more out of me than I realized at the time and I neglected my own well being more that I should have. I tell you this because you need to take care of yourself first so that you can take care of the ones you love in the best way you can. I held my Dad when he took his last breath. It was a long road, and like your Dad, he said he was ready (I was not 'ready', but I was prepared, I miss him every day).
 I truly wish you all the strength you require and a little extra. I cannot imagine going through the road we traveled with a pandemic thrown on top. I don't know if I could have handled that. My heart goes out to you. You have a place here to unload anytime you need it.

[firefighter ontheside]

Well, this morning we had our first documented case of one of our ff's testing positive.  He had just a little throat tickle, but got tested because of family exposures.  Now 2/3 of his shift has to quarantine for minimum of 5 days.  After 5 days they can get a test and return to work if negative.  I have to fill lots of OT until then.  There is the possibility we will have to close a firehouse due to staffing if I can't fill the time.  We already have 3 guys out on disability, so its gonna be difficult.  We only have 30 shift guys and this will mean that a total of 11 out of 30 are unable to work.

[alan gage]

I have had several symptoms off and on, and you lay awake at night wondering, 

It's hard to know what the right thing is to do. My symptoms are very light. So much so that I don't really notice unless I think about it. Started 4 days ago on saturday. Don't exactly match up with covid symptoms. Do you just carry on or get tested? 
Knowing we were very slow at work and that there would be no pressure for me to come in I got tested Monday and am quaranteening until I see a negative test. I see enough people during the course of a work day, many of them older, that I didn't want to chance passing it along.
Would of been a tougher decision if I couldn't afford to take time off work, whether because of finances or work pressure. 
In the mean time I'm enjoying my quarantine. Splitting lots of wood and this afternoon will rent a boom lift and spend Thanksgiving doing tree work. Thankful to have good weather and a good boss.
Alan

[DbltreeBelgians]

Well we got swabbed in the back of throat today at our hospital. Said it'll be 3-5 days for the test results. I don't have much doubt what the results will be. My wife is feeling pretty rough but I feel no worse than a common cold at least for now. I have lost taste though.Time will tell.
Dad called me from his isolation room (negative pressure) at the hospital last night and sounded so much better. He does have pneumonia in both lungs and they are treating him aggressively. His SATS were in the upper 90's so that was great to hear.
He just called me again just to fill me in. Didn't sound as good as last night. My surgeon friend text and said he checked on him today. He had the "Rona" 2 weeks ago and is just now getting back to work. 
Told me they had 29 dedicated isolation rooms and working to get more available but had 61 patients waiting for a room. They are starting to transfer patients to other hospitals that have beds available. The hospital is short staffed with members in quarantine and overflowing with patients.
My daughter is an ER nurse at St. Rita's in Lima Ohio and said they are getting slammed right now. 

Well, this morning we had our first documented case of one of our ff's testing positive.  He had just a little throat tickle, but got tested because of family exposures.  Now 2/3 of his shift has to quarantine for minimum of 5 days.  After 5 days they can get a test and return to work if negative.  I have to fill lots of OT until then.  There is the possibility we will have to close a firehouse due to staffing if I can't fill the time.  We already have 3 guys out on disability, so its gonna be difficult.  We only have 30 shift guys and this will mean that a total of 11 out of 30 are unable to work.

I understand what you're saying FFots. I'm not liking sitting at home when the tones drop for a medical, mva or fire. We're a rural fire district with 3 stations, 1 district chief and 3 station/ bc's of which I am one. Most have day jobs so I run out of all 3 stations. The district board and district chief like that I retired a year ago so the know I'm usually available. Guess I threw a wrench into the works on that.
I figure it'll all come out in the wash so to speak. 
Everyone stay safe.

Brent

[firefighter ontheside]

That sounds like good news on your dad, Brent.  Good O2 sat!

Your FD sounds about the size of ours.  We are mostly fulltime, but we do have about 6 volunteers still.
I am one of the BC's and the other 2 are on quarantine.  Hopefully my test comes back negative.  I'm needed to help fill spots on other days.  GEtting rapid test, so I will know tonight.

[Walnut Beast]

The Pfzier vaccine is genetic one and needs to be stored at -80 🤫

[doc henderson]

If enough docs get hit with a + test, we will have to work if we physically can, otherwise there are no docs.  it has been discussed as a contingent.

[alan gage]

Well shucks. My test came back negative. Guess I better get all my projects done this weekend because I'll be going back to work next week.

Alan

[WDH]

Hang in there, Brent.

[Don P]

My job is about peoples wants, my wife's is about their needs. A couple of hundred people will have a Thanksgiving meal in part because of her work tomorrow. I had to let someone follow his own path for awhile today because it ultimately puts her in jeopardy. Chances are he will be able to get vaccinated before I will. Which leads to my question. I'm thinking that even if he is exposed he will no longer be a potential vector once vaccinated?

[firefighter ontheside]

Good news for me is that my test also came back negative.

I read that vaccinated folks may still be a carrier/spreader for a short time til the antibodies do their thing.  I also read that is likely to be a small chance that they will actually spread it.

[doc henderson]

My test was confirmed as negative by the state health dept.  just got the call.

[Roxie]

All this negativity is making me cautiously optimistic.  :D