Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[Gary_C]

Interesting article about how long it actually took to develop the Moderna vaccine.


The interesting bit is that the research on the vaccine method had already been completed. It was basically a template for a vaccine, that just needed to be encoded with the right proteins and it was ready to go. Sort of like a cure waiting for a disease?

That claim is somewhat misleading, is completely arrogant and somewhat dangerous. With todays DNA/RNA sequencing abilities, developing a drug or vaccine is not usually a problem. That is especially true with the already developed knowledge of the family of coronavirus, where the attack point was already known as stopping the spike protein from attaching. The real time consuming problem is first the animal studies and then the efficacy studies in humans and determining if the drug or vaccine does not kill the patient nor make him grow webbed feet. It's all about avoiding the law of unintended consequences. Plus claiming to having a template is ignoring the fact that viruses mutate.
 

 The real "Warp Speed" has been since then to get the testing and approval done quickly, compared to the usual years. 

The real "Warp Speed" was created by first hiring a drug industry expert to point out unnecessary steps in the FDA approval process and eliminating paperwork steps that were unnecessary and time consuming. Then the most beneficial step was to eliminate all of the risk for the drug industry by pre buying product which also eliminated the normal wait time between approval and product delivery. That was the "genius" part of the process that few will give Trump credit for achieving. 
Recent news stories have arisen that the administration refused to pre buy additional doses from Pfizer but if they had accepted then the EU and UK would have been shut out for a long time. The US has already hedged it's bets with Pfizer by pre buying from Moderna I believe and we should have enough doses to vaccinate everyone by June.  

[Roxie]

While I enjoy the input and the discussion, let's keep that for another thread and get back to "just the facts."

[Ianab]

Gary, just to clarify, I'm not knocking operation warp speed. It's done a great thing by speeding up the testing, approval and pre-production of the vaccines. 

I just found it interesting that the development of the vaccine had been completed so early, and basically before the program started. I didn't know that before today. I did know that the testing and approval of a new drug or vaccine is expensive, and time consuming.

Warp speed has provided the funding and cut the red tape so the vaccines got tested, produced, approved and ready to go in less than a year, rather than 5 or so years. That makes it a success. 

The fact that viruses mutate is one of the strengths of this style of vaccine. The template can be programmed with a different sequence to respond to a new virus or variant. That's why it only took a couple of days to design the current one, once they had the gene sequence of the virus. They weren't working from a blank page, 99% of the lab research had already been done. The BIG job was testing to ensure it was safe, actually worked, got approved, and then manufacture and distribute it. 

Top marks for getting that done in 20% of the usual time.

[SwampDonkey]

We are going to be getting vaccines shipped here to New Brunswick as early as next week, so vaccines before Christmas looks likely. Nursing homes first.

N.B. to get first shipment of COVID-19 vaccine doses next week | CBC News

[doc henderson]

yes, 70 years of making vaccines had us primed and ready.  we make a new flu vaccine each year.  this will take us to the next level, and those technologies may cure the common cold and or cancer.  many cancers start with either mutations and or damage to our dna by viruses inserting stuff into our cells.  Human Papilloma virus as an example.  and we have a vaccine for that now.

[nativewolf]

well it is good to see vaccines going somewhere fast, not sure we're going to be fully vaccinated by June but we'll have a good start and should be done by next years cold weather/holiday season.  Something that we can all be grateful.  Very important that as we discuss this that we are grateful and supportive of all efforts to eliminate the risks, loss of life and increased poverty are terrible.  Surely we can all agree on that.

RE operation warp speed.  Well it surely does speed things up in the US but the US is not an isolated angel leading the world but a very interested party with good resources.  Of course someone in China had a vaccine ready..the *DanG thing surely originated at the virus research lab in wuhan that had crappy control procedures.  It's been out a while and now the blood tests are showing it has been out of China for months before China officially recognized the issue.  But I rant.  China did not even have enough sick people to do human test, thus the outreach to Brazil and the testing in Brazil.  There will be lots of global competition to sell vaccines.  

Doc has it right I think, we'll come out of this a bit more prepared for future issues and hopefully look at cancer and other issues in a new light.  

[SwampDonkey]

we'll come out of this a bit more prepared for future issues and hopefully look at cancer and other issues in a new light.  

Until we do what we always do, become complacent and lax and cut funding as time passes and we dwell in good times until we get stung again. Highly predictable bunch we are. :D

[SwampDonkey]

Vaccination has begun across the UK today.

Coronavirus: UK's first COVID-19 vaccine recipients excited to get their shots - YouTube

[DbltreeBelgians]

I'm back!!  8)  I finally turned the corner today. What a nasty trip it was.
Everyone in this house had different symptoms. Dad had breathing issues and fever. My wife had fever, cough, nausea and severe body aches. She spent days on end in bed. I had no fever, I lost all taste and smell, headache, severe coughing and extreme breathing difficulties. I also had effects mentally. I didn't know that could happen. Hallucinations, wild dreams, waking in the middle of the night in a dark void full of blocks I couldn't get out of, and just being in a fog. I didn't want to go to sleep anymore. I became irritated at tv. Can't stand seeing the news talk about COVID and close my eyes when I see someone getting an injection. I feel that comes from the colon cancer I dealt with years ago. I really hate needles now. Maybe it's a form of PTSD? Who knows. It was a long dark time in my life and I don't wanna play that game again.
Anyhow like I said I woke this morning and said to myself,"Hey I feel better". To make the day better I had a Tele-med call with my pulmonary doc who had COVID 6 weeks ago and she said she had symptoms similar to mine. And she said it can definitely effect you mentally. So I told her I'm in day 16 of this mess, how long do I have to stay in the house?
She told me I'm free to roam and out of quarantine and isolation. 
Shortly after my call with her I got a call from Santa at my Stihl dealer. 
My Christmas present had arrived. Here it is



 

Fresh from Germany shiny new MS 461 w/ 32" bar.
My wonderful 056 super av finally bit the dust. 
Did I mention it was a good day?
Everyone please stay safe. It's real. I had my doubts early on but can testify it ain't no fun and I don't wish this on anyone.
Take care,

Brent 

[doc henderson]

looking good Brent, and that is a fact!   8)  

[Magicman]

Fresh from Germany shiny new MS 461 w/ 32" bar.

Brent, you ain't right!!  Nothing wrong nor wrong with you, but you just ain't right!!  :D

[DbltreeBelgians]

Fresh from Germany shiny new MS 461 w/ 32" bar.

Brent, you ain't right!!  Nothing wrong nor wrong with you, but you just ain't right!!  :D

Yeah I never said I was right, just said "I'm back" and boy is it ever good to be back.
And thanks doc. Thank you for what you do.
Y'all be safe now ya hear?

Brent

[Tacotodd]

Brent, you ain't right!

You ain't wrong, but you ain't right! 

I'm glad you're back. Keep on plugging away, day by day.

[Walnut Beast]

Brent I'm glad you guys are doing good. Now be careful with your new toy 👍

[Ianab]

So I told her I'm in day 16 of this mess, how long do I have to stay in the house? She told me I'm free to roam and out of quarantine and isolation. 

14 days is the accepted quarantine time. Some folks take longer to shake the after effects, like fatigue and "brain fog", but at 14 days and feeling better, you shouldn't be spreading the virus. 

Glad you are feeling better. 

[WDH]

Brent, so glad to hear that you are still kicking and are on the right side of the root zone.



 

Hopefully, you will be able to taste the ice cream soon. 

[firefighter ontheside]

Thats great news @DbltreeBelgians I'm glad you're feeling better.  I wish more people could learn from your experience and believe just how real it can be.  Experiences like yours tell me that some side effects from the vaccine for a few days are worth it to prevent something much worse.

I'm very excited about the vaccine coming out.  I have a feeling things won't go as fast as I'd like, as I know a lot of folks won't get it.  At least I know my family will get the vaccine when we can and we will be protected.  

[Tacotodd]

As far as the vaccine goes, I'm still on the fence about it. I still want to know personally what the long term effects are going to be vs. what else it's possibly going to do, like DDT was the miracle pesticide until the other the other unforeseen consequences that it had.

My oldest sister works for the state health department and my niece is a nurse somewhere. I'm just not sure of the information/hype that they've been given. Don't get me wrong, something somewhere has to have happened, but I personally have not seen anything other than news.....

[BradMarks]

Just going to throw this out there with respect to numbers, since I'm sort of a numbers guy ;).  Oregon, this year to date has had 5 cases of the "regular" flu reported statewide. 5, as on one hand.  Last year we had thousands.  Hmmm.  Cooking the books comes to mind.

[doc henderson]

we have only seen sporadic cases of the flu.  poss. due to all the mitigation for covid

[firefighter ontheside]

I believe there are a few things going on.  It stands to reason that in a time where we are dealing with a very contagious virus, that a less contagious one will not be as prevalent as in the past.  People are washing their hands better than they used to.  They are social distancing, wearing masks etc.  The flu should be less prevalent this year.  As far as confirmed cases of the flu go, we are not doing a lot of testing for it.  Somebody feels bad, so they go get tested for Covid.  If negative, they go about their business or stay home until they feel better.  There is not much reason to then go get tested for flu.  I have never been tested for flu in my life.  I just didn't see the point.  I have been tested for covid twice.

I have to reject the idea of cooking the books.  I have many friends who are nurses, doctors and even one who is the head of our county health department.  My friends are not a part of a government conspiracy.  They are honest folks trying to help mitigate a public health crisis.

[gspren]

A friend was taken to the hospital today, he tested positive last Thursday but was "getting by", mid 60s with lungs damaged in a serious farm tractor accident a few years ago. This morning his wife called the ambulance because of his difficulty breathing, so far she isn't showing symptoms and hasn't been tested. The wife is also mid 60s and has Parkinson's, would that be considered much of an extra problem?

[kantuckid]

DDT wasn't injected in peoples arms? 
I'm of the mindset that there are certain times when we are well advised to trust a medical service provider unless theres some obvious, common sensical red flag waving? Where's the red flags on covid vaccines? They will have gone through human trials before anyone in main population gets the shot. 

I have better things to worry about-meaning lifes activities are more fun and no lost sleep either- such as my logs waiting to be sawed, trees to be cut and shop project now in progress. 
Bring on the vaccine and worry not in my own case. 8)

[Andries]

Australia and New Zealand reported an almost complete lack of 'regular flu' in their winter a few months ago.
The medical community there chalked it up to all the precautions that were being taken against the new Corona virus. 
.
"Last year we had thousands.  Hmmm.  Cooking the books comes to mind."
.
Most levels of government don't have the smarts or organization to put together a conspiracy.

[Don P]

With the above, less contact, better distancing, washing, and masking in at least some people plus less travel between northern and southern hemispheres was predicted to give us a lighter flu season some months ago. Getting the flu vaccine is not a bad idea as having both at the same time would suck.