Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[petefrom bearswamp]

We finally got scheduled for March 15 and 16.
I keep seeing folks on FB that got in right away.
They must live in front of their computers.

[doc henderson]

It is interesting, and in a way sad that we have unlocked so many secrets about the body.  so just like kids do not look exactly like the parents, they do get the general outline, and some traits good or bad get passed on.  their is nothing useful about knowing every detail in each person, but maybe this will turn out to be an explanation of the long hauler syndrome.  Mutations occur in all things living ( and non living viruses).  out cells are constantly fixing mutations or eliminating abnormal cells via the immune system.  so finding dna that has mutated a bit in a long haul person is interesting.  the concern would be if it confers and advantage to the virus that makes it more contagious or deadly.  Most cancers are caused by a failure of the immune system to take out bad cells or to miss a mistake in dna that regulates growth and replication of cells.  this is why you get "tumors"  (that means a growing mass of cells).  as we get older our bodies systems slow down and we are more likely to get cancer.  if a mutation helps the virus evade the antibodies made in response to a vaccine, then we need a new vaccine every so often.  or find an antigen that is common to all the variants.  The ones with an advantage are the most likely to gain a foothold. 

[Chuck White]

I called the clinic and asked if there were any cancellations and got in a month earlier, done this past Saturday!

Next one due in 3 weeks!

[Texas Ranger]

Just a heads up for folks getting their shots.  Had no effect on either shot other than the standard vaccine arm.  Now, 5 days out from the 2nd shot there is a painless knot on my arm, sensitive, but no real pain.  We convinced my eldest daughter to get hers for a month, she finally signed up on Monday and received her first shot on Tuesday, this week.  Texas has been slow but seems to be speeding up, some areas more so than others.  Daughter is in Fort Worth.  Your mileage my vary.

From a laymen point of view, to ignore the science is to ignore facts, the "I caint sees it, it dont exist" is the mood in a lot of low income areas, state and cities in Texas have been slow to dead stop in those areas.  Communication is going to end up getting us open again, Texas seems to have come around and are pushing the media to "get er done".

Now the world seems to be tuning up there research and production of the vaccine, we were lucky, and may eventually claw our way out of this.

[JuanChair]

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/what-do-coronavirus-variants-mean-your-masks-n1255518
"A mask "is a physical covering to prevent droplets," Fauci said Monday on NBC's "TODAY" show. "So, if you have a physical covering with one layer, you put another layer on, it just makes common sense that it likely would be more effective.""

""If you put three or four masks on, it's going to filter better because it's more layers of cloth," said Dr. Scott Segal, chair of anesthesiology at Wake Forest Baptist Health in Winston-Salem, North Carolina."
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/what-do-coronavirus-variants-mean-your-masks-n1255518

I posted this, as I've seen a few folks talking about wearing 3 masks; one was on an evening news program.  Fauci is now stating that wearing 2 is smart.

Also, I'm reading that with the variants emerging, they're leaning towards continued vaccines regularly due to different strains.

No disrespect intended but your Dr Fauci guys has said so many different things its hard to know what the facts are with him.  He has said masks do not work, now he says masks do work, and now he says double masks work... tomorrow we will suffocate with 5 masks.   The only real fact with Fauci is he is one of the highest paid government workers and apparently will say anything that they need him to say for their agenda and all at your tax payers expense. 
I do agree wearing a mask in certain situations can be beneficial (Like when robbing a bank) but I don't wear a mask in my daily activities but thats because I'm out in the sticks.   Even when in town or the big city I often do not wear a mask.  I went into a pharmacy the other day and they prevented me from going in because I did not have a face mask, I walked across the street to another pharmacy, went in and spend my money there.  Their loss not mine.  

[btulloh]

JuanChair, I agree with what you said. I must caution you though about getting too political on here. I don't think you've crossed that line with your post, but it is headed in that direction. We try not to get too opinionated in this particular thread so it can remain as a place to share information. The admins keep a close eye on things here and make sure we all keep things in the good lane. It's one of the things that makes this forum so useful and enjoyable I think. 

After a certain amount of time, and a number of posts, there are other areas of the forum which will open up to you. Enjoy your time here and keep poking around. There is much to explore. 

[JuanChair]

they are billing insurance to get something to help pay for the staff that was "hired" to give it.  If your insurance does not cover, or you do not have insurance, I have been told it will be waived.  It may depend on where you get it.  Walmart, vs health department.  any agency that has non reimbursed expenses, can apply for money to help.  our hospital has kept track of all the additional stuff done in the name of covid, and can submit it.  it will not be dollar for dollar, but every bit helps.  

Doc a serious question for you,
Do you not see any red flags or gut feeling when they (the government or private business) wave any type of service fees while giving out free mandatory life altering (RNA / DNA changing) vaccinations for the "greater good".
I'm just one of those very skeptical types and apart from my forced vaccinations as a child which I had no say in, I have never had any yearly flu shots or other vaccines. 
Even down here we have heard what your government did with the infamous unethical and human rights violation Tuskegee Syphilis Study.  
I remember the old saying "nothing is free in life"

[JuanChair]

JuanChair, I agree with what you said. I must caution you though about getting too political on here. I don't think you've crossed that line with your post, but it is headed in that direction. We try not to get too opinionated in this particular thread so it can remain as a place to share information. The admins keep a close eye on things here and make sure we all keep things in the good lane. It's one of the things that makes this forum so useful and enjoyable I think.

After a certain amount of time, and a number of posts, there are other areas of the forum which will open up to you. Enjoy your time here and keep poking around. There is much to explore.

I apologize, I wasn't aware I had gotten political.  I can be very opinionated and I admit I am rough around the edges at times due to my personal life experiences.  Ill watch watch what I post but I have a lot of questions and I'm the type to challenge narratives.  
Ill walk on egg shells here in this thread if you're saying I cannot speak unpleasant facts or ask / challenge things from my personal perspective.  thank you for the warning.   

[doc henderson]

so the idea is that everyone is at some risk, so the government is making it happen.  the vaccine through the operation warp speed, we have already paid for the vaccine.  many public health issues are handles so that cost is not a factor in deciding.  if you do not want it, you do not have to take it.  the title is meant to protect this thread so it does not get sent to the woodshed.  We try to bring in politics, hearsay, alternative al natural, of conspiracy stuff.  There are not too many facts known, as that will take years.  It can be hard to tell the difference.  If you disagree with something posted, we ask that everyone be respectful.  It is not a sounding board for what you believe in your gut, or heart, but have no information about.  

[btulloh]

Well this is for facts and facts are facts (well maybe not so much any more  :D) but this thread is trying to be about facts. We've had facts change it seems during the course of this thing, which you were just pointing out. I'm sure there are others who could disagree though and, we just want to keep this thread from being a debate based on individual perspectives. It's a fine line, because things need to be challenged but we also aim to respect others point of view. In this particular thread.  Even though that goes against my personal nature.  :D

[doc henderson]

so the vaccine is not required.  the childhood ones are required to go to public school here.  it is how we got rid of small pox and polio for the most part.  the vaccine lets you body develop immunity in advance, so you are not as likely to be sick.  It should not be changing your DNA, although that has been studied to help cure cancer as an example.  ask any questions, you can make comments, but try not to argue for days about some out in the weeds theory, from an unknown source.  welcome.  

[firefighter ontheside]

We don't all have to have the same opinions, but I agree with following rules and the heeding the wishes of property owners.  I wear masks, because I believe in them and not solely because there is a mask mandate.  If there was an establishment that I tried to enter and they had a sign that said, no one allowed who IS wearing a mask, I would turn right around and not go in.  I wouldn't be mad about it.  

[JuanChair]

Well this is for facts and facts are facts (well maybe not so much any more  :D) but this thread is trying to be about facts. We've had facts change it seems during the course of this thing, which you were just pointing out. I'm sure there are others who could disagree though and, we just want to keep this thread from being a debate based on individual perspectives. It's a fine line, because things need to be challenged but we also aim to respect others point of view. In this particular thread.  Even though that goes against my personal nature.  :D

Yes I agree on the fluidity of the situation and "things" changing.   For example out here near me is a small pueblo and a few months ago they had a person test positive for the virus.  They closed the two roads into that pueblo and prevented anyone in or out.    If you needed propane you had to bring your tank to a designated area leave it and walk back 40 yards out of the exchange zone, then the gas guy would go in and fill the tank.  He would leave out and then you could go in and get your tank.  Same went with food water and other goods.

This was all supervised by the police and they were there to ensure everything stayed locked down for 30 days. It was a real mess.  They no longer lock down communities like they did that town but they did add restrictions on social events, closed all government buildings and services and schools..etc.  I understand all that and that type of fluidity I can accept. 

What I cannot understand or accept is a so called infectious disease expert who supposedly knows infections, transmissions, and viruses to waver so much on such important issues like a face mask.  To clearly say they do not work or are useless to then say they do work only to say 2 are better than one... is completely different.  That would be like an experienced firefighter saying water doesn't work on a fire then saying it does... and still wanting us to respect him.  Wouldn't you question his mental functions.

I'm not here to challenge or politicize the mask issue but rather when something so massive as the validity on that issue alone which does divide people, I cannot help question everything else.  This is why this thread is so very important for those who post firsthand information and facts as they develop.

I'm not upset over the masks or the vaccines, I will do what I personally feel is in my best interest but I am super curious on the overall ramifications of the entire situation.   
 

[JuanChair]

so the idea is that everyone is at some risk, so the government is making it happen.  the vaccine through the operation warp speed, we have already paid for the vaccine.  many public health issues are handles so that cost is not a factor in deciding.  if you do not want it, you do not have to take it.  the title is meant to protect this thread so it does not get sent to the woodshed.  We try to bring in politics, hearsay, alternative al natural, of conspiracy stuff.  There are not too many facts known, as that will take years.  It can be hard to tell the difference.  If you disagree with something posted, we ask that everyone be respectful.  It is not a sounding board for what you believe in your gut, or heart, but have no information about.  

Ok I understand that now and agree with you... I will limit my posts here to avoid any conflict or challenges.   thank you Doc.

By the way are you an actual doctor in trade or is it just a title or nick name

[JuanChair]

I'm almost 2 weeks now since my second dose.  It feels good to be at that point.  I'm happy more and more are getting it, even if its slower than I would like.
We haven't ran calls at the nursing homes much during the last year.  They have not wanted any of us in there to risk brining the virus in.  Last week I went inside a nursing home for the first time in 9 months.  It was for a cardiac arrest of a 60something male who had recently "recovered" from Covid.  

I live in rural Mexico a 3rd world country so I'm sure we are on the bottom of the vaccine list and I doubt we get it offered for a long time.  I'm watching this thread so I can get as much firsthand honest information on the vaccine and any side effects that I can.  I appreciate all you and the others have posted and while I doubt I will get the vaccine once it arrives I do want to see whats happening to the first people who get it and what will happen to them weeks after their second injection.  

We don't have nursing homes (or hospitals) out here but thats strange they would not let you go inside to treat people for other things like cardiac arrest.   Its odd for us to see the USA news down here because I hear what you post about the nursing homes not wanting you in, yet in the same breath there is a lot of news on the scandal in New York where they apparently purposely packed the nursing homes with covid infected people. 

Did they say the guys cardiac arrest was related to the COVID or the vaccine or was it unrelated. 

[btulloh]

As are we all. There is a tendency for information to be used to support an agenda rather than inform and selective use of certain facts mixed with conjecture plus the many unknowns means that it ceases to be informative but merely persuasive. Couple that with the fact that so much is unknown and it's perplexing.  None of this should be political but merely a search for facts and understanding.  Sadly though, nothing seems to work that way any more. 

I think I'm getting close to the line.  I don't want to get this sent to the woodshed, so I'll just leave it at that. 

[doc henderson]

all of the above.  it has been a wild ride.  we have limited visitors to slow the transmission.  It had been sad because some parents and grandparents have dies alone in a hospital.  of family on the phone looking in through a window.  we do make end of life exception for the family to be together.  sounds like the arrest post was post covid recovery, and we are seeing a lot of that.  we had a period where no one came to the hospital afraid they would get covid.  I think in New York, they sent folks back to the NH without a good plan to quarantine them.  and then covered up the numbers.  but again that is getting close to politics.  i.e. "do you love or hate the NY governor".  good luck 

[JuanChair]

We don't all have to have the same opinions, but I agree with following rules and the heeding the wishes of property owners.  I wear masks, because I believe in them and not solely because there is a mask mandate.  If there was an establishment that I tried to enter and they had a sign that said, no one allowed who IS wearing a mask, I would turn right around and not go in.  I wouldn't be mad about it.  

I totally agree with you 100%.   I also respect the owner here (or any place) and respect the rules even I disagree. 

Surgical masks are worn in hospitals because they help. They do not protect from major viruses so I can see bot sides.  I do not get mad at all over face mask rules, I just quietly turn around and leave, life is too short to argue over stupid stuff.   Down here we have bigger issues than a face masks.  

[firefighter ontheside]

 @JuanChair Doc is a real Doctor of Medicine.  He doesn't just play one on this thread.

Nursing home patients have been so hard hit by the virus that they have gone to great lengths to keep most people out.  Only ones going in were workers and patients.  The infirmed aren't going out to parties and getting the virus.  The virus was being carried in by workers and visitors.  What they have been doing is bringing the patients to the doors and handing off to EMS at the door.

[JuanChair]

all of the above.  it has been a wild ride.  we have limited visitors to slow the transmission.  It had been sad because some parents and grandparents have dies alone in a hospital.  of family on the phone looking in through a window.  we do make end of life exception for the family to be together.  sounds like the arrest post was post covid recovery, and we are seeing a lot of that.  we had a period where no one came to the hospital afraid they would get covid.  I think in New York, they sent folks back to the NH without a good plan to quarantine them.  and then covered up the numbers.  but again that is getting close to politics.  i.e. "do you love or hate the NY governor".  good luck

Doc the other day Tuesday I was in the big city and stopped to see a friend who had been down with COVID two months ago or so. He shared how COVID had kicked his ass sideways and up and down like if he was a bad step child. 

What I took away from that visit was how different he looked.  His skin tone wast rather plastic looking, his eyes more intense and the coloring, his facial features (thinner).  He was himself but looked different to a degree.   He looked more intimidating. 

I'm concerned with the heart related issues so many are seeing after the fact of infection and recovery. I'm also trying to keep up with side affects after the 2nd shot many are also having a few weeks later.


on a side note and not to derail the thread, In regards to politics you mentioned, yes its a fine line and I try to stay out of the actual political individuals or political parties and politics (they are the same to me... not worth talking about) but its hard to avoid not talking about policies that directly affect your business regardless of your political affiliation or politics.  

For example although I live in Mexico your government policies do affect us and vice versa in terms of business.  Under the current new US administration we are expecting more people to enter the USA for work and also more money coming back to Mexico which will stimulate our economy which leads to new construction and need for more wood.  

So in that sense I don't see it as "politics" to talk about changing business related policies or in this thread case the COVID policies.    

[JuanChair]

@JuanChair Doc is a real Doctor of Medicine.  He doesn't just play one on this thread.

Nursing home patients have been so hard hit by the virus that they have gone to great lengths to keep most people out.  Only ones going in were workers and patients.  The infirmed aren't going out to parties and getting the virus.  The virus was being carried in by workers and visitors.  What they have been doing is bringing the patients to the doors and handing off to EMS at the door.

Thats great he is a real doctor, that gives this threat a real advantage for sure.   I only asked out of curiosity as I'm new here. 

Yes I understand the elderly are much more susceptible to disease due to their fragile immune systems but then the question arises is it not like AIDS patients.  They have a compromised immune system and yet they often die of pneumonia, or other factors all brought on by AIDS but their death certificate do not list AIDS as the cause of death.     With COVID they are listing everything as a COVID death and that to me seems odd, as if they are once again contradicting long standing medical practices. 

one thing for sure we can all agree on is we are leaning a great deal on how to deal with a pandemic and the next one that hits we will be a little more prepared

sounds like your local nursing home handles medial needs like that small pueblo near here that got put on lock down.   they just had a safe zone hand off location. 

[btulloh]

That makes sense.  The problem for us in the US is that everything has become political.  This wasn't always the case, but it is now and there's no escape.  Even entertainment and sports has become political.  It's a sad thing really.  A discussion about a viral disease should not be political, but that is the case here.  Even a discussion of the efficacy of masks (or two masks!) immediately takes on a political cast.  

Of course two-stroke oil and mix ratios are where things can get REALLY tense.  Just go to the Chainsaw forum and look for "oil wars" or "best two-stroke oil" or similar.  That subject can really cause a controversy!  

[firefighter ontheside]

While I'm sure there have been deaths that were incorrectly ruled as Covid.  I believe most deaths that you're referring to are ruled as complications of or from Covid.  That is to say that while they technically recovered from Covid, they died due to related health problems caused by Covid.  People end up with blood clots that cause strokes and embolism.  They don't die of Covid, but they die of complications from Covid.

[Ianab]

If anyone has an hour to spare this is a recent video where a couple of NZ scientists explain the local response to the virus. Timelines, measures taken etc. Its basically a Zoom type meeting with overseas colleagues.

New Zealand's COVID-19 Response - YouTube

Juan talks about isolating one village to help control the virus. That should have some local effect. NZ isolated and locked down the whole country, for 7 weeks, and borders are still very restricted. 

One thing they touch on was that there were a lot of unknowns, and to some extent that's still true. The dusty old "Pandemic Plan" wasn't really applicable to this new disease, so an evolving plan was formulated as the situation played out. These are some of the folks that were actually advising the Govt at the time. 

The masks question? Early on it wasn't known if they helped or not, conflicting evidence and all that. It was possible that wearing a mask could actually increase the chances of infection, because the wearer was more likely to touch their face when adjusting the masks. So in the initial outbreak they were not recommended here, but the virus was quickly controlled without them. Ongoing research now suggests they are of some use, so advice has been changed. This isn't that officials were lying early on, they simply didn't know. 

[Gary_C]

This isn't that officials were lying early on, they simply didn't know.

No, Dr. Fauci was lying thru his teeth when he initially said that. He knew that masks were of some benefit but lied because he did not want everyone to buy up all the supplies and short the healthcare workers. So we all now know that Fauci will lie when it's convenient and that's a known fact. Plus he has a recent history of moving the goal posts and putting out false information during the early days of the AIDS epidemic.  :