Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[Southside]

Guys, I have yet to post in this thread and that has been intentional, monitoring it yes, but keeping out of it.

Let's drop ALL of the opinion and political dancing right now and keep it factual.

Quoting something some public figure said, absolutely fine, please keep the opinion out.  

[WDH]

The Restricted Topics Board is where you can knock yourself out talking politics politely.  This thread is intended to share information about what we know about the virus without the political ramblings, opinions, and theories that heat up debate.  Therefore, this thread, "Just the Facts, the Crown Virus" is for those of us who eschew the political discussions and personal agendas that have characterized some of the threads in the Restricted Topics Board.

The Restricted Topics Board exists those who are not crazy from going crazy. You have a right to go in and a right to stay out. 

[Magicman]

I exercise my Restricted Board privilege by not engaging in any conversation.  I enter, read, and exit.  :P

[JuanChair]

The Restricted Topics Board is where you can knock yourself out talking politics politely.  This thread is intended to share information about what we know about the virus without the political ramblings, opinions, and theories that heat up debate.  Therefore, this thread, "Just the Facts, the Crown Virus" is for those of us who eschew the political discussions and personal agendas that have characterized some of the threads in the Restricted Topics Board.

The Restricted Topics Board exists those who are not crazy from going crazy. You have a right to go in and a right to stay out.

How does one access these restricted topic boards

[doc henderson]

LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN

[JuanChair]

LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN.

you have to request entrance.  click on the link above.

Clicked on the link but it would not allow me access.  There was also no place to request access or approval.  

[doc henderson]

go to the linked topic, hit reply, and in your reply state that you request entrance.  an admin will make that decision.  just like you make replies here.  good luck.  doc.

[btulloh]

You have to be a member for a while and make a certain number of posts before that "members only" area opens up to you. It's a right of passage. Patience!

[Jeff]

Yea, new members wanting to discuss politics. Not a thing here. In fact old members discussing politics is not a good thing either, but what became a limited nessesary evil.   Lets talk about where you are going to get your trees and wood from, not your politics.

[JuanChair]

Yea, new members wanting to discuss politics. Not a thing here. In fact old members discussing politics is not a good thing either, but what became a limited nessesary evil.   Lets talk about where you are going to get your trees and wood from, not your politics.

I was unaware of the restricted area until another member brought it up.  I'm not here to talk about politics and haven't done so other than to raise "On topic" policies regarding the Crown Virus here in this thread.  I am not here to discuss politics at all in any thread.   I would join a political forum if talking politics was my interest but its not. 

As for the trees and wood, that would be for another thread and I am currently writing up those threads.  One thread on my chair making business and the other on where and how I plan to get wood.  

[Runningalucas]

Guys, I have yet to post in this thread and that has been intentional, monitoring it yes, but keeping out of it.

Let's drop ALL of the opinion and political dancing right now and keep it factual.

Quoting something some public figure said, absolutely fine, please keep the opinion out.  

I would like to make a single post on 'the facts', for myself, and 'some' others.  I live with a debilitating muscular dystrophy.  My upper back, actually most of my back, as well as chest are dead.  I've got more chest muscle, which is how I can manipulate my arms to do what's necessary for short amounts of time, but in doing so, I get extreme rotater cuff pain, lower back pain from contorting, as well as naturally restricted breathing due to the tightness in my chest.  Usually by the time I'm done doing any sort of physical exertion, it's time for pain killers, a long nap, and often times a few to several days of recuperation.  Nights after these days of work are the worst, usually entailing a cocktail of pain killers, muscle relaxers, ibuprofin, and yes, often times mixed with alcohol to just get through the night.  
While I run a Stihl 461, I cannot start it properly, as I cannot raise my arms above my lower chest.  The only way I can get it going is a distorted drop start. I've got strong hands, so I can hold onto the saw, but starting it is always a challenge, and my chaps, and boots, while using the brake, show the whoopsies.  if I don't get the sucker started after just a few pulls, then I don't use it that day, as I'll be too worn out, and it'll cause extreme migraine like headaches from tension caused to my neck from repeated drop starts.  Likewise, do to this condition, I only run one tank of fuel in a day; as I'll go till I really hurt myself otherwise.
Usually I'm worn out, and in need of some serious rest, and perhaps for a couple days.  Other times, and unknown why I feel better, and can do more.  It's a maddening disease.  Why do I mention this?  Our local health dept doctor made a televised appearance, stating anyone not wearing a mask was a fraud, and that there's no disease that would limit wearing a mask.  He actually got on tv, the local news, and advocated for those people not wearing to be shunned, and harassed.
Well, I know for myself, not only due to fact it's difficult to reach my face, let alone my ears, as well as having documented breathing problems due to hardly any muscle being of use, and what is constricts my breath, well, I've got a serious issue with masking.  My point?  I'm affected, and other disabled folks are the same.  
Take deaf people, they read lips, they're now a 2nd class citizen like myself, along with all other people that are mobility impaired.  
Along this line, when the box stores were imposing their stupid enter this way, but not that way stuff, it made doing any sort of shopping almost impossible for me.   I walk, but for limited distances, and it better be for something 'worth it'.  The box stores corralling people into their stores, would leave the handicap spots at one end of the store, but the entrance at the complete opposite side of the store.  They never had any provisions set aside for handicap.  
Likewise, the folks in nursing homes are being treated like lab rats.  Both of my parents died in nursing homes in the last 8 years.  Each of my parents lived through at least 1 winter in the homes, my mom lived through 2.  Each winter, every winter the common cold, and common flu would ravage these places.  I'd ask the nurses about the flu, and pneumonia vaccines, and the efficacy as all would get vaccinated...  Well, probably due to myself, and open blunt honesty, they'd reciprocate.  Basically every winter was a nightmare of sick, and dying due to these common things.  My mom's last winter 7 years back, the pneumonia finished her off.  While it was painful to know it was coming, I was able to be there for her, with her.  Today? They're lab rats, and anyone who realizes how these facilities work, and the average stay is under 6 months(til death, or discharge), well, it's just wrong to isolate the terminally ill.  
My point on all of this?  The real facts are we're only as strong as our weakest link; it's a true statement, as we all know where 'the chain breaks' in all things.  
After seeing the local health dept doctor's news interview, and really 'feeling' his words, I called his office. They stuck by everything he said; yet failed to acknowledge their very own ADA guidelines regarding masking, and coronavirus in regards to disabled.  I filed a medical board complaint against the doctor for giving out not only misleading information, but actually false information that was sure to cause issue.  
It actually did too.  Not that long after that, a man who claimed a medical condition, walked into a grocery store without a mask, was assaulted for doing such.  There's a video online somewhere of the literal mob chasing, and harassing him.  But the Medical Board found no correlation between the two, and said the doctor was good to go.  Too bad it was discovered a little while later, that he was a 'touchy feely' sort of guy, and lost his job any ways; I guess Karma is a real -----.  I've had my own incidences of those 'virtous' folks who feel the need to say something.  Usually by the time I'm done talking to them, and mentioning their 'privilege', well, I don't think that those particular ones will ever say anything again to someone else; as they literally may not be able to 'comply'; that's what this is, compliance after all.  
I also turned in a DOJ complaint against the box stores as well for the parking arrangement, and how it literally didn't work for disabled.  All of it, was denied because of the 'pandemic'.  The medical board said the health dept doctor was in his rights, and the DOJ stated due to the pandemic, 'tough luck'.  
For myself?  I really don't care.  My disabilities have allowed me to see the world in a different way, a way in which, 'The Emporer's Clothes are laid Bare'.  My time will be shorter than most on this earth, it's already affecting my heart; in many ways, I'm more free than most.  So I'll never shut up till god takes my last breath.  

To be clear, nothing I wrote above is open for debate, or intended in any way to be taken as political in nature. It's an account of a disabled person living through the weirdest times in most people's lives.  We're proverbially pushed in cookie cutter fashion to fall in line of compliance; while the decades of pandering to the 'original protected class' of disabled folks, is cast to the curb, and down the gutter, into the storm drain, and down the sewer.  It sure is interesting to experience, and telling as far as where we go as a people from here.
On that note, rant off, if anything I wrote was unclear, feel free to ask me to clarify.

[JuanChair]

While I'm sure there have been deaths that were incorrectly ruled as Covid.  I believe most deaths that you're referring to are ruled as complications of or from Covid.  That is to say that while they technically recovered from Covid, they died due to related health problems caused by Covid.  People end up with blood clots that cause strokes and embolism.  They don't die of Covid, but they die of complications from Covid.

In your line of work I'm sure you have connections to medical examiners and such, if so what are they saying about death certificates and causes of deaths being written.  Are they adding "Complications due to COVID"

[doc henderson]

of course, we are seeing complications of covid.  some folks are admitted due to having covid, as they cannot go to another hospital or unit, such as a psych. unit.  lots of blood clots and secondary pneumonia.  If they did not have another problem, they would be sent home with covid.  it is not fraud, but a fact of covid.  I respect the fact that the elderly are cared for by family and not a nursing home.  what else can they do to protect the infirmed but block the entrance.  @Runningalucas sorry to hear of your diagnosis.  i hope you do well.  if you cannot wear a mask, get vaccinated, or send someone to the store for you.  I respect that you are independent, and take care of business.   If you can start a chainsaw, the you can prob. wear a mask.  If not, stay home.  I hope I have not missed something in your comments.  the mask is not the end all, but a courtesy to those around you.  it is only part of the mitigation and reduces risk by a percentage.  god bless.

[Tacotodd]

Yaknowwhat, in my great state, if you have a valid CCW and are carrying, you can't legally wear a mask. That's a strange turn, don't you think? The question has even been posed to the State Police HQ. That's where it was told!

The mask work for a number of reasons but only if worn properly. I still see an abnormal amount of people that just don't understand this basic little thing. Not covering the nose, I mean, wear it correctly or don't wear it at all. How do we educate the people that don't want to be educated about doing it correctly?

[Ianab]

Bzzz Bzzz Bzzz.

All our cellphones  just lit up.  

Lil had earbuds in talking to her Sis.  :D

Anyway 3 un-tracked cases in Auckland today.  Auckland is back to Level 3 from midnight, and L2  for the rest of us. Reason is the cases were picked up with no obvious source of infection. If you find 3 cases, there is probably 3 more, and the original source of infection.  L2 just has some restrictions on large gatherings, and eating out etc. 

[doc henderson]

@Tacotodd maybe we can develop a bikini style mask that barely covers the mouth, and barely covers the nose (2 piece) and then (leaving very little too the imagination) you can protect those around you and still carry.    I know we have only had a handful of cases.  none of it is perfect, but we have only had a few thousand cases of flu.  also the southern hemisphere had a mild year preceding us and that is where ours comes from, and record numbers of people got the flu shot this year   almost 200 million.  the mitigation after the cat is out of the bag, is to slow the spread enough that hospital are not overwhelmed.  With only a few cases and folks spread out like @Ianab you can actually contain the virus.

[Claybraker]

  With only a few cases and folks spread out like @Ianab you can actually contain the virus.

Doc, isn't it true that test and trace is still an effective tool? Masks, social distancing, avoiding large crowds are also useful tools? Vaccines are also a tool. Early hominids used tools. or is it arrogance on our part to call ourselves  Sapiens?

[Ianab]

Doc, isn't it true that test and trace is still an effective tool?

It is, until the number of cases gets so high that it overwhelms the health authority's ability to carry out the work. 

Taiwan for example closed borders, implemented quarantine and track / trace really early on, and have done 10X better than NZ, without any hard lock down restrictions internally. But they had the resources in place to do this from day one, having learned from earlier virus outbreaks. 

The current restrictions here are hopefully short term, only 3 days currently. But that would change if the outbreak is found to be more widespread. It's just not known where this family picked up the virus from, which means there must be other cases wandering around, possibly asymptomatic. They should have the genetic testing completed today, which can help match up how they got infected. 

But that sort of tracing is only possible when there are only a few cases. Once there are thousands every day it's impractical. 

[21incher]

Doc up here in Rochester there is a company that makes masks with a clear area in front of the mouth. It's for families and people that deal with the deaf because many deaf rely on lip reading along with sign.
 
Our boy has Covid. Went to a company seminar where they served food and drink so the masks came off for a while  :'( . Luckily His wife and the 3 grandchildren have tested negative. He has not been hit bad so far and isolated in a spare room in their home.

Masks do work but at Walmart the other day I saw a woman with 2 masks. A cloth one with a paper one on top and it looked like they were both very loose and totally ineffective. I guess it made it hard to breathe so she loosened them so the air wouldn't go though them. Common sense may be a thing of the past.

[firefighter ontheside]

 @21incher my wife is an audiologist and uses the masks with the clear window.  I'll have to ask her where she got them.  She doesn't wear them all the time, but knows what patients to wear them for.  The rest of the time she wears N95 masks when patients are in the office.  A while after the pt. leaves she and her employee switch to wearing surgical masks.  They have both had both doses of vaccine.
Sorry to hear your son is sick.  I sure hope he gets well soon.

[doc henderson]

If everyone did it all right all the time, it would solve lots of problems!  

[LeeB]

OK, not sure if this is a good question in this post or not, but here goes. How effective do you feel the testing is with the high numbers of infection we are experiencing? Personally I feel it would be money better spent on vaccine, distribution, and personnel to administer it.

[Ianab]

Personally I feel it would be money better spent on vaccine, distribution, and personnel to administer it.

Fair point, but I think the holdup in the vaccination program isn't a lack of $$, it's a lack of manufacturing capacity to actually make enough vaccine. The drug companies have been expanding their production ability over the last few months, but you can't just magic up a new drug factory overnight, and then there is the supplies of the ingredients etc.  

No doubt there are inefficiencies in the over all vaccination project to fix, production is being increased and new vaccines are still being approved, which should increase the overall supply. But until the production increases, improving the distribution / manpower to administer the doses wont change much. 

First doses of Pfizer only arrived in NZ today, and border workers will start getting shots in the next few days. Getting them into folks arms isn't going to be a problem, it's just the supply is limited, so mass vaccinations probably wont begin until July

[doc henderson]

the testing is helping people to get routine stuff done like a gallbladder surgery.  It helps us know what floor to put someone covid + or - in the hospital.  also helps if you want to travel, and if a family member tests +, the family can do triple secret quarantine.  It would be great if we had all the vaccine on the first day,  you give me mine and I will give you yours ect. ect.  If it was easy, everyone would be a doc right.  good question, but I agree with a multi pronged approach, as that is all we have.  

[Magicman]

The State Health Dept. notified us that due to the road conditions and traveling curfew that has been imposed, our 2nd Moderna shots have been rescheduled from tomorrow 'till Sunday.

I am up from my normal one cup of coffee per day to three and the cookies are 'bout all gone.  :