Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[kantuckid]

I certainly empathize with you about the frustration with convicts getting vaccine before everyone else.  It is not fair in any way, but with the cost of treating every inmate that gets sick, its in the best interest of taxpayers to keep them healthy.  I think Doc mentioned a while back that cases were starting to decline in prisons as the prison population got close to herd immunity.  

Think that over? 
In my area we have several prisons and everyone of the staff is in close contact with those inmates and they then go home with whatever they "got" from those folks. I have always felt that any person who works around corrections or juvy treatment should be a 1a and I stand by that feeling for vaccinations. Sa only one e.g., when I ran a juvy treatment program, I/we were often around tubercular kids and I got my chest x-rays as recommended and they were read by a doc with specialized training to look for the disease. There are many other health risks in those settings, covid is but the most recent. It's not about who you like the most for the early shots, it's about who is at what risk, not a cost analysis alone.
I find it interesting here in KY and nationally that much talk about opening nursing homes to visitation at a time when here in KY I read that vaccinations of staff are only ~ 45%. Many staff in all of those settings are of low educational level and may not understand a vaccination situ, plus the reality is they are not being forced to vaccinate in nursing homes here in KY. I lean toward forcing them, but not my decision. They are forced to meet many other health requirements why not covid? We make even food service workers meet health requirements, why not covid? I will now shut up. rant over... ;D 

[kantuckid]

seems counter intuitive.  I am not justifying it from a social or justice point of view.  anyone incarcerated becomes the responsibility of the state.  almost like foster care.  We have a local prison and the inmates range from young to old.  So it is like a big nursing home with many who cannot leave.  We made the number one position in the nation in terms of daily increase in cases because of our prison.  We had days in the ED that 4 prisoners were transported at a time and many took space in the ED and ICU.  Once it started there, it spread and by our peak in the community, over 80% of the prison had already had it.  It left there via the employees.  so it is basically a super spreader event, and seen as a public health issue.  As you know, some states opted to let prisoners out...  so prob. better that at least those folks "got" to stay in prison.  they were part of what nearly overwhelmed our local system.  again, I am not saying felons are more important than anyone else.  they ended up using up a lot of resources.  so this provides a look at the behind the scenes thought process.  We actually had the Kansas State Medical Director of Prisons on our weekly covid meetings.  She is also one of 5 Docs Deployable with KSAR and grew up 20 minutes from here.    @Tristan

Spot on.

[kantuckid]

I took the GED test into jails when it could be argued that their were "nicer folks" who I could have been serving? In fact my school boss felt that way and made me stop. 

[YellowHammer]

@kantuckid 
You are correct.  The symptoms of the vaccine mimic the disease, but on a lower scale.  It would be nice if there were no aftereffects of the vaccine, but a couple days of low grade symptoms aren't as bad as the disease symptoms we have been having for going on 10 days, but thankfully getting better every day.  If our case was a "mild to moderate" hit, then I'm glad I didn't get anything any worse, and understand how the people who have gotten really sick said they felt "fatigued for weeks, not wanting to do anything."

It seems to come in waves, I was feeling decent the day before yesterday, but yesterday I woke up and it felt like the truck had backed up and come back to hit me a second time.  Today, not so bad.  I don't think I can remember the last time I have been out of the shop and not working for this long.  

Meanwhile, while I've been typing this, I've already had two potential customer's phone calls roll over to our answering machine which says, "I'm sorry, we are closed and will remain so until it is safe to open."  So I'm sitting here in the chair, and losing money because of this DanG disease.  However, it could have been a lot worse.

If nothing else, use my screw up a lesson.  This is a classic case of "Take Steps to Save Steps."         

[doc henderson]

the vaccine is still voluntary in the military for now, as the vaccines are still considered a drug under investigation, and considered experimental in the eyes of the FDA and CDC.  when it is fully approved, that will prob. change.  In our hospital, you are either required to get the flu shot, or wear a mask the entire flu season.  that was pre-covid.  interestingly, we are seeing virtually no flu.  cases in the thousands, instead of millions.  flu shot and mitigation.

[firefighter ontheside]

Almost a year ago we had my parents and inlaws over for my birthday.  That was the last time we felt safe doing so, and even then it seemed a little risky.  Fast forward a year and we all(except the kids) have both doses of vaccine.  We are going to go to inlaws house next weekend for my birthday.  We will try to spend most of the time outside or in their screen porch.  In doors the kids will wear masks.  Trying to get back to a little bit of normalcy, but knowing there are still risks.  

[Tristen]

seems counter intuitive.  I am not justifying it from a social or justice point of view.  anyone incarcerated becomes the responsibility of the state.  almost like foster care.  We have a local prison and the inmates range from young to old.  So it is like a big nursing home with many who cannot leave.  We made the number one position in the nation in terms of daily increase in cases because of our prison.  We had days in the ED that 4 prisoners were transported at a time and many took space in the ED and ICU.  Once it started there, it spread and by our peak in the community, over 80% of the prison had already had it.  It left there via the employees.  so it is basically a super spreader event, and seen as a public health issue.  As you know, some states opted to let prisoners out...  so prob. better that at least those folks "got" to stay in prison.  they were part of what nearly overwhelmed our local system.  again, I am not saying felons are more important than anyone else.  they ended up using up a lot of resources.  so this provides a look at the behind the scenes thought process.  We actually had the Kansas State Medical Director of Prisons on our weekly covid meetings.  She is also one of 5 Docs Deployable with KSAR and grew up 20 minutes from here.    @Tristan

I was a correction's officer with the supermax/death row inmates. I have swallowed my share of pills and eaten more than my share of EDITED BY ADMIN sandwiches,  So trust me when i say "i understand we need to take better care of the prison system and the whole community that revolves around it. "
BUT,  what do we tell the 64 year old small business owner who has been shut down for a whole year, had his car reposed, his house in foreclose, he electric shut off and his business in bankruptcy court ?
Do we tell him to just keep paying your taxes so we can buy a vaccine for just a few hundred more child molesters and murders, then after they are all vaccinated we will put you on a list and get to your family as soon as possible ?   That is a hard pill to swallow, or a big sandwich to eat by yourself.  But now i know why the marijuana stores are essential, because you have to roll that one up and smoke it, it is to big to swallow.  

[firefighter ontheside]

 @Tristen were you at the prison in Pontiac?  I have a friend who works there.  Lives just a few blocks from the prison and walks to work.  I don't think I could live that close.

[pineywoods]

We just lost a good friend to covid19. A classic example of just how nasty this stuff can be. mid 60's good health, infected from caring for her 88 year old dad who died from covid a month ago. Hospital intensive care unit, first on oxygen, then a ventilator for weeks. Kidneys shut down, mild heart attract, lungs trashed, blood oxygen levels down in the critical numbers. Lay in a coma for weeks before the family agreed to pull the plug on the ventilator. Brain dead within 15 minutes.  And there are folks who say this stuff is all fake :( nothing to worry about...

[Tristen]

@firefighter ontheside   Kansas Dept of corrections,  El Dorado.  Out by Real close to Doc.    I lived in the same community as the prison.   It was a great little town.  Everything in the whole community revolves around the prison in one way or another.   From health care to fire dept to street repair to the YMCA, the restaurants, the glass repair shop, the gas stations.  Everyone in some way deals with the prison, the people who work there or the inmates family's.    I agree it is a super spreader if covid gets in there then the whole community gets it.   But i would *DanG sure give the vaccine to every person in the Community before i gave it to the inmates ! 

[Runningalucas]

Fauci stated that those who have taken the vaccine will shed the virus to others; I've read for years that the flu vaccine does this, and apparently according to the main guy=Fauci, covid vacs are doing the same.  

So what of it?  My massage guy, he took it, and so far, three weeks later, and just before his second shot, my partner, and I both have 'symptoms', and he's literally the only person we've been around; the only one.  

I know this, as we're long time, and term germaphobes,  we had the clorox wipes, and a proverbial suitcase full of preventative measures lined up every year.  He's our point of contact; in an enclosed room alone, same air for an hour/twice weekly...  

[firefighter ontheside]

That is not what Fauci said.  The vaccine does not give you the virus.  What can happen is that someone who has been vaccinated can contract the virus and shed virus for a while until their antibodies get rid of the virus.  This vaccine and every other vaccine works to kill a virus once you get it.  The same thing happened with the vaccines that eradicated polio and smallpox.  Did you read what happened to @YellowHammer ?  He got vaccinated, but didn't know that he had already contracted the virus before vaccination.  If you indeed got the virus from your massage therapist.  One of these 2 things is likely how.

[Old saw fixer]

     33 hours since our second dose of Moderna.  Other than a sore arm, my wife feels good.  I have a slight fever, 100° when normal is 97.9° on the same forehead thermometer.  Other than that just a little general malaise.  No problem with appetite, taste is okay.  We'll see what tomorrow brings.  

[firefighter ontheside]

I haven't heard loss of taste being a side effect of vaccine, only as a symptom of covid.  I hope you your side effects don't get any worse.

[Nebraska]

Most of this has been covered before. 

The basic jist of the vaccine is to give your body bits of foreign proteins that your immune system will recognize  as not supposed to be there.  Your body therefore  see's it and begins to make  immunity proteins  (antibodies) against these foreign bits, it sees as invaders.  Since it is foreign  the vaccine does cause a  physiological response and since we are vaccinating against a member of a very common virus family (common colds)  all of us have seen these (though somewhat different)  in one variety or another.  So your bodies immunity  reaction to the vaccine  causes some level of inflammation.   That can feel like actually  getting one of these bugs(viruses)....  The  signs vary greatly  by each person.  The vaccine isn't giving you Covid but your body is mildly imitating the symptoms as if you actually  had it or  a similar Corona cold  virus.  It took 3 days for me to be normal after dose number  2 as did one of the other docs,  doc number 3 ran a higher fever but was good in a day  or so, doctor 4 had a tiny bit of soreness in his arm and that was all.
If a properly vaccinated person is exposed to the virus several things can happen. The virus  can attach to cells in your body and fail to do anything  much if high levels  of immunity  are present.  It can grow a small amount and a little shedding can occur,  this can happen  in varying  amounts,  all the way up to individuals  that the vaccine doesn't  work in at all. According  to the numbers it's less than 2 in 20.  If enough people in a group are vaccinated or  had have the disease and survived  it(the virus) runs out of new victims  and dies out. Thus herd immunity.  I am a food animal practitioner not a RD(real  doctor )  ;)
but this is how I have answered folks when I have been asked.  If Doc Henderson or one of the other human physicians on the board has other opinions on my simple explanation listen to them! 

[doc henderson]

some of the older vaccines were an attenuated live virus.  so you actually got a version of the virus that was modified to not cause a bad disease, and yes it could spread to others, and get immunity for them even though they did not get a vaccine.  Most vaccines are not live virus, but as stated, enough foreign protein to prepare your body for battle with the real live virus.  the problems with live attenuated was if it mutated back to the real virus, and then you get an occasional kid who gets polio as an example.  the benefits of all of these vaccines, far outweighs the risks.  almost all of the viral and vaccine side effects, are collateral damage from you immune system waging war, so not from the virus but the inflammation from you own immune system.  so it is good to have side effects from the vaccine.  it means it worked.  

[YellowHammer]

Yes, I had been exposed to the virus earlier in the week, was feeling fine, went to get a vaccine and the day after, felt bad.  Arm swollen, muscles aches, and a cough.  Surely just side effect of the vaccine.  The next day, I get a call from my oldest daughter, she just tested positive.  So now, I decide maybe I need to get tested, but I'm certain the effects I have are from the vaccine.  Well, as I'm getting tested, I tell the guy how I had the vaccine the day before, and these are surely just symptoms of it.  He looked at me and said "......welll....coughing isn't a side effect of the vaccine....".   And 15 minutes later, "Mr. Milton, you are positive for Covid."  

So I drive home, tell my wife who also has a slight cough "from the vaccine, surely" and she gets an appointment, and and hour later we find she has Covid also.  

The next day, the it feels like a truck ran us over.  

With this scenario, it may have easily looked like we caught the covid from the vaccine, but we didn't, we know exactly who and when we caught it from.  

My daughter works at a Covid test lab, she told a story today that may enlighten how erratically people are behaving.  Three people drive up in a pickup truck, two guys and young girl, one of their daughters.  No masks, no nothing, yet they drove up thinking at least one person in the truck had Covid.  One of the guys had a runny nose, and the girl had a runny nose.  The guy driving had no symptoms, and was acting as a chauffeur. They did a test on the guy with a runny nose and he was negative.  So they asked if the guy driving wanted a test and he said, no, he hasn't been exposed.  However, after thinking about it, he asked if he could get a test for his daughter, who had the runny nose.  They did, and she was positive.  So then the guy driving gets worried, and takes a test and he is also positive, but with no symptoms, or they haven't developed yet.  The only guy who was negative was the fellow who they had brought in to get tested in the first place, the one with the runny nose.  How much do you want to bet he will be positive in a couple days?  That will be a three for three scenario.  

[thecfarm]

My FIL is getting a shot today. He's 86.

[kantuckid]

@firefighter ontheside   Kansas Dept of corrections,  El Dorado.  Out by Real close to Doc.    I lived in the same community as the prison.   It was a great little town.  Everything in the whole community revolves around the prison in one way or another.   From health care to fire dept to street repair to the YMCA, the restaurants, the glass repair shop, the gas stations.  Everyone in some way deals with the prison, the people who work there or the inmates family's.    I agree it is a super spreader if covid gets in there then the whole community gets it.   But i would *DanG sure give the vaccine to every person in the Community before i gave it to the inmates !

Based on your current location in IL I thought you were going to say Marion, IL which I toured in the late 1970's while attending a corrections educational conference nearby. Marion then was the super max of the fed inmates and a real zoo of humanities best we have types. 
The mix of people that choose not to get the vaccine is interesting for me. Not something I'll ever really understand though. News stories are prolific now of the people who travel around trying to catch a leftover dose when the line gets dosed. While I was sure glad to have the vaccine I was never going to travel the country in search of the dose someone didn't show up for? That's truly weird IMO. 
The two state prisons near me are both in extremely small counties that are rural with zero factories and not much coal in either one. Both locations were heavily influenced by politicians who lived there who also controlled EVERY job that came up in either one of them, period. From my experience there I respect the corrections process done correctly but was glad to be working among regular folks when I left it all behind. Between the cons and the politicians in control it was far from my favorite type of work.
El Dorado named by Cortez? before the prison and town there now... :D 
  

[Chuck White]

I going in for my 2nd injection of Pfizer at 3:15 this afternoon!

My brother and his wife both had theirs yesterday and day-before, no side effects other than tender at the injection site!

[Magicman]

That's how traditional vaccines work. The mRNA vaccine (which Pfizer and Moderna are) work differently:

I ain't a doctor but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn too.  

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/how-do-mrna-vaccines-work

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is a traditional vaccine and is refrigerator stable for several months, and only requires one injection.  It may not be as effective as the mRNA's.

[Old saw fixer]

     Before I went to bed last night my temp was back to my normal and the malaise was gone.  This morning I am fine.  Wife is fine. 

[firefighter ontheside]

That's great @Old saw fixer that's what we like to hear.

[Chuck White]

Got up this morning, only side effect to the shot is the injection site is tender to the touch!   8)

If I don't touch it, there is no discomfort at all!  

I know........ Don't touch!   ;D

Glad it's all done!

[Lostinmn]

I've googled quite a bit and can't find a clear answer, maybe Doc or someone can provide a medical background answer for this.  

What about taking both a Johnson & Johnson vaccine and one of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine or Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine?

I'm way down on the list, so it could be I end up being offered the J&J now that it is approved, which has lower efficacy.  I'm fortunate I work from home as does my wife, and have very little exposure risk and I could just wait.  I'd rather have the Pfizer or Moderna, but if J&J was offered sooner, could I take it and then also get one of the other mRNA options also when available?  Or do I just wait for my chance to get Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine or Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine?

I found some discussion of mixing the mRNA vaccines taking 1st shot of one and 2nd shot of another as reasonable.

But what about taking the J&J adenovirus type, then when available taking both shots of one of the two mRNA vaccines later?

Any potential issues?  Will that still get my system boosted up to the higher Pfizer or Moderna efficacy?  Is there any benefit from immunity response via the slightly different methods or perhaps a loss?

Any help is appreciated, as I ain't a doctor and I haven't recently stayed at a Holiday Inn like Magicman  :D