Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[Southside]

Think about this. Nurses are being fired while 600,000 USPS employees are not subject to the jab mandate. All of Congress and their staff are not subject to to jab mandate. All of the Federal court system employees are not subject to the jab mandate.

At the same time nurses are being fired. This is not science based, it has nothing to do with best medical practices, it it 100% a campaign of tyranny to force an agenda. 

The time to stand up or lie down and submit is here.  I can assure you I know where I stand. 

[OlJarhead]

Think about this. Nurses are being fired while 600,000 USPS employees are not subject to the jab mandate. All of Congress and their staff are not subject to to jab mandate. All of the Federal court system employees are not subject to the jab mandate.

At the same time nurses are being fired. This is not science based, it has nothing to do with best medical practices, it it 100% a campaign of tyranny to force an agenda.

The time to stand up or lie down and submit is here.  I can assure you I know where I stand.

Exactly.
And I stand with you.
I am not antivax -- I have had all mine.  But I will NOT take this MRNA non-vax jab.  The Canadians recently released a study that 1 in 1000 jabs cause heart problems and more research has shown the vaers system is broken and deaths by this jab are not being reported.
Also, someone posted that over 600,000 deaths due to covid were reported......ya, not so fast.  We know, for a fact, that if you were shot in the face and died but you tested pos for covid you were listed as a covid death.  We also know, for a fact, that if you are within two weeks of receiving the jab and die of covid it's called 'unvaxxed'.....we also know the flu was not reported last year (only about 650ish deaths compared to the normal thousands) because the PCR test at 40x is faulty and the CDC had to make changes.  
Yes this is a deadly bug but I will wage it will prove no more deadly than influenza in the end (even the CDC released recently that twice as many have had it than previously thought putting that number closer to 80 million and cutting the death rate in half).  It's a new bug, and very contagious so people are getting it on a scale not seen since the last flu pandemic of the 50's but it will dwindle in time just like all the rest and the question is:  was it worth giving up your rights and freedoms for?

[Hilltop366]

I hear lots of talk about follow the money and for the profit of the big pharma companies and using it to discredit information, ask yourself the same questions about were you are getting the anti vax info ... from news outlets and websites that make money from your views and politicians that are trying to whip up fear and hysteria and then ask for a donation.

Thanks Docs for taking the time out of your busy lives to share your first hand experiences. 

[Hilltop366]

The latest Nova Scotia numbers  Updated Sept24:

Cases by Vaccination Status (since March 15)

Unvaccinated              4337     91%
Partially vaccinated     297     6.2%
Fully vaccinated          113       2.8%


Hospitalizations by Vaccination Status (since March 15)

Unvaccinated              237     87.5%
Partially vaccinated     28     10.3%
Fully vaccinated             6       2.3%


Deaths by Vaccination Status (since March 15)

Unvaccinated                24     82.8%
Partially vaccinated       3     10.3%
Fully vaccinated             2      6.9%

[HemlockKing]

The latest Nova Scotia numbers Updated Sept24:

Cases by Vaccination Status (since March 15)

Unvaccinated              4337     91%
Partially vaccinated     297     6.2%
Fully vaccinated          113       2.8%


Hospitalizations by Vaccination Status (since March 15)

Unvaccinated              237     87.5%
Partially vaccinated     28     10.3%
Fully vaccinated             6       2.3%


Deaths by Vaccination Status (since March 15)

Unvaccinated                24     82.8%
Partially vaccinated       3     10.3%
Fully vaccinated             2      6.9%

Those numbers would be skewed because it dates back to March, when nobody even had the vaccine yet(meaning 100% deaths and hospitalization would be non vax), I would look at the data from the last 6 weeks

[Hilltop366]

The Canadians recently released a study that 1 in 1000 jabs cause heart problems

FYI

Was shown to be incorrect and the study was retracted, the real numbers were more like this.

The adjusted incidence is about four per 100,000 doses, which is within the range of recent studies, and vastly lower than the initial estimate.

This will explain the numerical error that caused the false information, unfortunately the error gets quoted often. Study claiming 1 in 1,000 risk of heart inflammation after COVID vaccine got calculation wrong | National Post

[OlJarhead]

Not Making Headlines: Sen. Ron Johnson Just Exposed on Senate Floor that the COVID Vaccines Do Not Appear to Work as Advertised (VIDEO)

[OlJarhead]

The Canadians recently released a study that 1 in 1000 jabs cause heart problems

FYI

Was shown to be incorrect and the study was retracted, the real numbers were more like this.

The adjusted incidence is about four per 100,000 doses, which is within the range of recent studies, and vastly lower than the initial estimate.

This will explain the numerical error that caused the false information, unfortunately the error gets quoted often. Study claiming 1 in 1,000 risk of heart inflammation after COVID vaccine got calculation wrong | National Post

This is good and the reason I think it's important to share what we are all reading.
There are definitely issues with the vax but it is good to see when a study is found to be wrong -- specially one as damming as this one.
Hopefully those on both sides of the issue feel the same way and recognize the info each other post when it is proven right, or wrong.....did you watch the Nurse testify?

[Hilltop366]

The latest Nova Scotia numbers Updated Sept24:

Cases by Vaccination Status (since March 15)

Unvaccinated              4337     91%
Partially vaccinated     297     6.2%
Fully vaccinated          113       2.8%


Hospitalizations by Vaccination Status (since March 15)

Unvaccinated              237     87.5%
Partially vaccinated     28     10.3%
Fully vaccinated             6       2.3%


Deaths by Vaccination Status (since March 15)

Unvaccinated                24     82.8%
Partially vaccinated       3     10.3%
Fully vaccinated             2      6.9%

Those numbers would be skewed because it dates back to March, when nobody even had the vaccine yet(meaning 100% deaths and hospitalization would be non vax), I would look at the data from the last 6 weeks

I see what you are saying but if you look at the current cases it is the same trend, most NS cases are in the 20-40 year old age group that has the lowest rate of vaccination (except children) and are more likely to precipitate in the higher risk activities like bars, restaurants and parties. (got to catch it from somewhere) Looking at that and what Doc Henderson is seeing first hand it seems to hold true.

[Hilltop366]

did you watch the Nurse testify?

I did not. 

[Magicman]

My understanding is/was that the vax does not prevent an individual from contacting Covid nor prevent an infected individual, vaxed or not, from passing it on. The vax benefit does seem to lessen the effects of the virus on a vaxed person. If this is true then why does it matter whether health car workers or anyone else chooses to vax or not?

Sooo, I suppose that the answer to my question is 'political' which is and should be off limits for this topic on this board.    I still would like to know the answer.  ???

[OlJarhead]

No sorry -- I only responded to the question if it does indeed help someone who gets covid -- there seems to be an issue with that.

Otherwise, I agree 100% with your statement and question.  What does it matter?

If in fact one believes it is a vax in the real sense and that it protects them then why should they care if someone isn't vaxxed?

The answer they give is that the unvaxxed are taking up all the hospital beds but that isn't really true.  After all, we were all unvaxxed a year ago and we didn't take up all the beds so what's so different today?  IN fact, since more than 70% of American adults are apparently vaxxed today than the virus shouldn't be spreading so easily now.......accept they also recently came out and said " vaxxed people are carrying as much viral load as the unvaxxed" and that is why they went back to masks (cloth masks do nothing).....

Sadly, it is all politics today or we'd be treating covid patients like we treat flu patients who get pneumonia....but we're not....instead we push a vax that isn't working (hence boosters now....in Israel they seem to going for booster number two now and you aint vaxxed unless you've had a triple....and soon a quad....when will it end?)

[Hilltop366]

My understanding is/was that the vax does not prevent an individual from contacting Covid nor prevent an infected individual, vaxed or not, from passing it on.  The vax benefit does seem to lessen the effects of the virus on a vaxed person.

If this is true then why does it matter whether health car workers or anyone else chooses to vax or not?  

Edit: I do realize that the severity of the virus in unvaxed folks seems to be causing the overload on our medical facilities and personnel.  This to me would be the only argument for the vax.  ??

so @magic man.  if I was unvaxed, and I saw 42 patients last night.  and some of them had cancer or were immunocompromised and at high risk of death from covid... i expose them all in the name of health care, and 1 of them dies of covid they got from me... i should feel bad.  i also want to live for my family, and not bring it home to my kids and wife even though I am exposed at the highest rate by profession.  the Hippocratic oath says 'fist do no harm".  but we have to sometimes choose what we think is the lessor evil.  I have a problem with people who refuse a vaccine and also refuse to mitigate in public, and punch a Walmart greeter in the face who offers them a mask.

Looks like a typo (space) notify the wrong person, or maybe it didn't answer your question.

[doc henderson]

@OlJarhead I have great respect for you and feel you call them like you see them.  no disrespect intended.  i know that what was stated is not what I see day to day, and hear from our own lab techs I have known and worked with for over 20 years.  other countries may have different results, but you have to knw the facts on the ground.  so this year covid may drop off, no one will wear a mask and social distance and wash there hand like crazy.  so expect lots of flu deaths this year.  if you are vaccinated you may be asymptomatic, but also have less viral load with premade antibodies, just like someone who has had covid, or got a dose of immune antibody infusion.  do you want a nurse working on a cancer unit with patients on chemo and no immune system, or in a transplant unit.   my partner of 21 years got the call last night that his son in Nashville has a matched donor heart.  he is currently as I type this getting a new heart.  his dad and mom have been caring for the 1 year old child the past 2 months so he can live and quarantine in the hospital  I have cleared and covered 2 weeks of schedule last night after seeing him and getting the news.  they fly this afternoon to be with their son who is 30.  his son has died 4 times (coded ) 4 timed in the past with numerous heart surgeries. in the next year, on transplant meds, covid will kill their son.   that is why they should get it, but it is political why they will be fired if they do not.  they would need to be moved off these units.  
I have been up over 26 hours so here is my analogy.  a guy buys a chain saw.  He is a responsible guy and has read about pollution, global warming, cancer, lung disease.  so he decides that he should not put all that oil in the gas and pollute the air and melt the ice caps.  the saw stops running in a week and he goes back to the saw store to get a new saw under warranty. no, He choose to not put oil in the gas, but wants the dealer to provide a new saw under warranty.  do any of the employees of the dealer believe and therefore not put oil in the gas... if they did this they would be fired, for ruining a saw.  i will read your comments later when I wake up.  

[doc henderson]

sorry guys I am tired and my answers are too long.  @magic man.  the vaccine helps but is not a cure all.  it makes you less likely to get it, or be really sick or die compared to unvaccinated people.  the benefits of health care people getting it is to keep the hospitals open, just like a supermarket or the energy company to get the power back on in a storm.  also the viral load is one component of infectivity, and the vaccine allows earlier decrease of the virus and decrease infectivity of others.  so it protects ill or immunocompromised people from infection from their caregivers to some degree.  since the hospital people are seeing it face to face all day long when they work, they would be the first to go down, and then who will take care of you.  this is part of search and rescue.  you can accept but not eat food gifts from residents you are helping.  if the power is out and you eat bad food, and you get sick, you cannot help anyone.  so vaxed you are less likely to get it, or spread it to others including pts and your family.  If you get is less likely to be sick or die.  It is new and lots of unknowns so I understand why people are fearful.  I felt I had to get it to protect me and my family and to be able to do my job.  good night.

[OlJarhead]

No offence taken, the respect is mutual.

But here's a question:  we need nurses and docs etc -- is it better to lay off the unvaxxed than to keep them?

And what if they had it already?  Shouldn't that be considered at least equal to vaxxed?

We can test for antibodies too -- shouldn't we do that as well?

They have been unvaxxed all this time and yet not been a problem.

We have rapid tests, can't we test the unvaxxed hospital staff before they see patience?

And finally.....if we treated the pneumonia instead of leaving patients laying in beds (as that pulmonary nurse said "a horse that lays down stays down") we'd save lives, a lot of lives so if it's about saving lives why aren't we doing that?  Why aren't we at least trying Ivermectin like the Indians and Japanese?  Why aren't we looking at other treatments?

Politics.

[Magicman]

Looks like a typo (space) notify the wrong person, or maybe it didn't answer your question.

Yes, I noticed the space and that doc was notifying the wrong person.  ;D

[doc henderson]

all good points.
we should not fire nurses or docs that do not get vaxed, but it is sad when they die or potentially infect someone else.  will a patient family sue the hospital for allowing a provider to work who is at higher risk now that there is a vaccine, (compared to last year) and causes harm to their family (who prob. also chose to not get the vaccine).

having had it is prob. better than the vaccine alone.

antibodies show you have had it or been vaccinated, but do not directly quantitativly correlate with immunity

It is normal to not be vaccinated when there is no vaccine.  i got mine the first day it was available, my choice.  we are not laying off our employees who choose not to get the vaccine, and anyone who test + is off work for 10 days with or without a vaccine.

the options after exposure is quarantine (off work) or daily testing,  we are exposed every hour of our shift so not practical or enjoyable.

so covid pneumonia is really a pneumonitis (inflammation destroying lung function spurred by non living viruses, and not infection by living organisms like strep causing lungs to be damaged by immune systems).  antibiotics increase the immune response by breaking up bacteria, so the immune system wins faster before we die).  we are still learning, but on the vent we do proning to keep everything from settling to the back and consolidating the lungs.  have to put the vented chemically paralyzed pt on their stomachs.  we everything for covid we do for pneumonia like pulmonary toilet, and often cover with antibiotics.  

most infectious disease docs say that ivermectin does not work, but it needs to be studied and decided one way or another.  

we do not practice euthanasia, but in the end we make sure that when there is no hope in our best judgement, we make the person as comfortable and dignified as we can.  

 the nurse and to a lessor extent the doc shortage, is all the above.  money, politics, burnout, most of the nurses we lost are working 45 minutes away with a sign on bonus and twice the pay.  we have hired many of the big city nurses as travelers and paid bonuses and twice the pay.  In the heat of battle admin *pithed a bunch of them off, and we swapped with Wichita, and we are all paying more.  many have returned after 13 weeks of traveling and are back.

and yes politics.  remember Biden and Harris both refused the vaccine when it was Trumps vaccine.

Best regards @OlJarhead @Southside and @Magicman and Godspeed to all my brothers and sisters.

[Claybraker]

Thanks Doc, I was wondering about regular testing of patient facing personnel.

It would be helpful if the individual states would back off on the mandates. Everyone wants to be seen as doing something, helpful or not. Standing between a politician and a TV camera is dangerous.  Most of these hospital systems are large private employers with locations in many states. They can establish BFOQ for themselves, I understand they've got plenty of HR personnel. Way too many in some cases.

Digging a little into the recent event in North Carolina at Novant Healthcare with 175 folks losing their job. I pulled out my sharpened Occam's razor. They completed a merger on July 1 with another system. My medical qualification consists of binge watching Scrubs. I know a little about mergers, from when I used to work at a really great company, BellSouth. When they merged with another company let's just say it wasn't a good experience. 

[doc henderson]

I just woke up and having my first cup of coffee.  yes we (my doc group/corporation) just merged with a bigger corporation. so we no longer feel like part of a family looking out for each other, and they mandated vaccine.  I think everyone should have a choice, but there may be consequences in the world.  this is a huge world wide pandemic, that could have been so much worse, and yes, if we knew then what we will know in ten years we could have avoided some mistakes.  I am happy to not find 25 replies to my analogy, that was far fetched and meant to be light.  there are a lot of ways to do this staffing, and for those who have worked there asses off and risked there own lived and wellbeing and that of their families..  it can be hard to get back out from under that bus.  now I have to be to work in 40 minutes after completing all my Ss.  my wife and son are working, I hugged my daughter, I will eat at work.  night 2 of 5 twelve hour shifts.  

[doctorb]

Just gotta say... God Bless You Doc Henderson, and all like you.

[Walnut Beast]

Maybe this has been discussed but many people that have been vaccinated are getting it. Then there is the boosters that you need to get. How many?  They say one now more. WOW. 

[Ianab]

Maybe this has been discussed but many people that have been vaccinated are getting it. Then there is the boosters that you need to get. How many?  They say one now more. WOW.

It has, the vaccines aren't 100% effective. That's been known ever since the initial testing. Some folks that got the first test shots did catch Covid during the study, but it was a much lower %, and they didn't get as sick. Effectiveness is a little worse against the Delta variant, because it's just more infectious. 
What we are seeing (here and in Aussie) is that you are much less likely to catch the virus after immunisation, and even if you do, you are about 10X LESS likely to need hospital level care. And if you do end up in hospital you are much less likely to die. So even partial protection is useful. In the current NZ outbreak only about 4% of the cases were vaccinated, and none of them ended up in hospital. 
Delta has messed with vaccination plans for sure. Against the original epidemic models suggested ~75% vaccination would be enough to suppress the virus, and it's spread would gradually stop. Against the Delta it's likely to need more like 90%, either vaccinated or with some natural immunity after recovering from an  infection. But even recovering from the virus doesn't make you immune to another infection. 
So immunity tends to decrease over time, both after the vaccine OR the disease. Hence the idea of booster shots, and shots for people that have had the infection. Might there be more boosters, or a new vaccine against a new variant in the future? Yes that's possible, but the more people that a resist getting the vaccine, the more likely that is to happen. 

[Claybraker]

Maybe this has been discussed but many people that have been vaccinated are getting it. Then there is the boosters that you need to get. How many?  They say one now more. WOW.

My cousin's wife had a breakthrough case and passed away. Cancer survivor.
I'm reminded of the story of 2 fisherman in Alaska being chased by a Coastal Brown. One grabs his buddy says help me change out of my waders.  His buddy says you can't outrun that bear.  I Don't need to out run the Bear, just you.

[Walnut Beast]

It's for sure some crazy and nasty stuff!!!