Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[SwampDonkey]

Paul there is medication just hitting the market in the UK and soon here. Says close to 100% effective against severe illness and hospitalization, that's the claim. I think it's $700 a 'course', 5 or 6 days of pills. Merck is the maker. Pfizer has one waiting approval to.

Last 1/3rd of video mentions it.

Boosters and antivirals - YouTube

[SwampDonkey]

Released figures today for vaccination status pertaining to hospitalization and ICU since Aug 1, 2021, in New Brunswick. Rate per 100,000 people.

[SwampDonkey]

Deceased per 100,000 by vaccination status in NB.

[HemlockKing]

….with a average age of 83.8 at death, from “covid” in Canada, at that age there is a lot that could easily cause problems. That is just the average ,HALF of the deaths from Covid in Canada were over 83.8 years

[SwampDonkey]

Definitely old age and comorbidity factors in the elderly a big factor in deaths. Keep in mind to, we have a lot of older folks in the population. Compare those deaths with the demographic. ;)

[doctorb]

Deaths in the US stratified by age:  (#'s rounded off)

Total Covid deaths:  750,000
Age at death:

  < 50 yo:  50,000
  50- 85 yo:  500,000
  > 85 yo:  200,000

Average age 78

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/

[Ricker]

This did "covid" kill them or was it a underling issue debate has puzzled me. To me if you have "covid" and you die as a result of the havoc the illness causes your body then it a covid death.  The body may be weak to begin with but if you would still be alive if you didn't catch covid, then it's a covid death.  Otherwise if I have cancer but get hit and killed by a bus cause I was too ill to get across the road quick enough, the death certificate should say that cancer was the cause of death.

[Ianab]

This did "covid" kill them or was it a underling issue debate has puzzled me

That is a fair question. 

But US has recorded about 700,000 more deaths (From All causes) during the outbreak than would normally be expected, and over 2020 the average life expectancy in the US dropped by 18 months. Mostly due to Covid, plus some increase in drug deaths.  

So that suggests that many of the people that died weren't "One foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel", Some were living their last days in a rest home of course, and their death wasn't unexpected. If it wasn't that day it would be in the next 5 months etc. 

But there was a significant number that died prematurely. If they were due to die in 2020, then there wouldn't be excess deaths. Was that 5 years, 10 years, 20 years early? Simply being 80 years old doesn't mean you are likely to die tomorrow. Being diabetic or having high blood pressure doesn't mean you WILL die this year, or at least I sure hope it doesn't. 

I think if you averaged things out, Covid-19 has, on average, stolen 1 year of life for every person in the US. Most got lucky. But a significant number lost 10, 20 , 50 years. 

[Ianab]

So you have no other weapons in your arsenal to combat covid other than a vaccine? None?
Keeping all ones eggs in one basket is not a good plan.

The vaccine is the fence at the top of the cliff.
The Covid treatments are the ambulance at the bottom.

The fence at the top isn't perfect, but if it stops 9 out of 10 falling off the cliff, it's still worth having there. Maybe we need a better fence and some more warning signs? But you don't scrap the fence and rely on the ambulances.

Viral infections are historically hard to treat, because the virus is not technically alive. It's hard to "poison" it, like you can with bacteria. The only tricky part with bacteria is finding something that's more poison to the bacteria than it is to the patient. To fight a virus you need specific molecules that will attach to virus particles, bind them up, and stop them reproducing before your immune system cleans them up.

The vaccine basically trains your immune system to do this The Antibody treatments just inject the patient with the antibody molecules that their immune system would eventually produce anyway. Hopefully that slows the virus spread and gives the patient's own immune system more time to kick in. It's a useful treatment, because it puts a "handicap" on the virus, hopefully keeps the patient alive until they can fight off the virus themselves. Might be a 50/50 thing, but useful.
I think the new antivirals that are currently being released have a specific chemical molecule that binds with the Covid virus, and inhibits it ability to infect a new cell. But is that any safer than something that triggers your own immune system to do the same thing? That chemical interaction could interfere with some other important body function. So it's not safe to say these treatments have zero side effects, although it seems they are safer than untreated Covid. A bit like the vaccine is a LOT less risky than catching Covid.

I'm all for the Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff having the best treatment available for those unlucky enough to miss the fence (and the ones that ignored the warning signs). But it should be actual medicine, and it would still be better not to fall off the cliff in the first place.

[doctorb]

....with a average age of 83.8 at death, from "covid" in Canada, at that age there is a lot that could easily cause problems. That is just the average ,HALF of the deaths from Covid in Canada were over 83.8 years

Small statistical point....
If you have an average age of death at 83.8 years, it does not mean that half of the people who died were older than 83.8 years and the other half was younger.  It means that, when averaging the AGE of all people who died, the average age was 83.8.  If you had a higher percentage of much older people who died, hypothetically, at age 95, the average age of death could still be 83.8, but the 50th percentile of people who died, called the MEDIAN, would be lower.  So the Median is the point at which 50% of a group falls below a data point, with 50% falling on the other side of that data point. Now, this statistics stuff doesn't take away from HemlockKing's point....which is that the deaths occur in older individuals.  My post is merely a statistical tweak to understand the difference between the average of something and the median of that same thing.  Bored yet?

Here's an extreme example:

Let's say you are looking at the lifespan of goldfish  You study 10 goldfish from birth until death.  They die at the following times in years:
1,1,1,1,2,3,9,9,9,10 years.  The average lifespan is 4.6 years (Add up the death years and divide by 10)  The MEDIAN duration of life is, however, smaller, at about 2.5 years, as 50% of the goldfish died prior to the 3rd year, and 50% died after that point.  Is this at all helpful?
In most large samples, the median and the average calculations are pretty close, but are usually not identical. I apologize for trying to be statistically correct.  Carry on!

[Ianab]

We had Covid picked up in the town wastewater this week, so chances are it's now here. No one has tested positive yet, but the drive up testing station at the the hall is open, and there is a vaccine van at the supermarket to catch up with the stragglers that haven't got the vaccine yet. 

We are in that messy time where most of the population is vaccinated, but the virus is still circulating. mostly in the vaccine holdouts. 

The local health board isn't as inventive as the Auckland ones. They  have painted up busses with "Shot Bro", and "Jabba Waka" in 10 ft tall street art.  We just get a small rental RV with a "Get your vaccine here" flag on a pole outside  :D They did have some customers though, just hope they haven't left it too late. 

[SwampDonkey]

Some more talk on injection along with some positive injection testimonials and countries who have been aspirating may possibly be using data to study the effects. Since no one has, just made assertions at this point. If so, hasn't been published.

Incorrect vaccination? - YouTube

[SwampDonkey]

I always like to look at the median, an actual number, that holds equal weight on either side. Especially with statistics that look at income. Averaging income is pretty useless with an up tick toward the higher incomes, since the upper class has few people and hold most the wealth. You'll find a median can be a heck of a lot different than an average on data that begins gradual with very slight increases until near the end where it jumps sharply. The shape of the line is more telling than an average figure to begin with. :

median red is 3, average blue is 50 with data sorted from lowest to highest income. X axis is nth person in the sorting.

[SwampDonkey]

The new medicine coming online, from what I here is only useful in the early stages when symptoms begin. Not when your in a very bad way, too late. And it affects the viral genetics, some doctors are concerned it may cause human cell mutations. How specific is it about just hitting the virus?

[HemlockKing]

This did "covid" kill them or was it a underling issue debate has puzzled me. To me if you have "covid" and you die as a result of the havoc the illness causes your body then it a covid death.  The body may be weak to begin with but if you would still be alive if you didn't catch covid, then it's a covid death.  Otherwise if I have cancer but get hit and killed by a bus cause I was too ill to get across the road quick enough, the death certificate should say that cancer was the cause of death.

So because a very small group of people(in the grand picture)who are already over the average life expectancy might i add happens to catch covid and it's all they needed to tip over the edge, we the MASSIVE majority should give up freedoms? Have vaccine mandates? All the damage from the responses themselves? "But you have a choice!" . Sure. Someone who has a family and kids to support has a "choice" to drop their income and therefore have support for their family crumble, obviously most people aren't going to do that, it is forced. 
I have elderly in my life I love dearly, and from now on will even avoid trying to pass a common sniffles cold onto them, mask etc, I would totally be getting a vaccine at any senior age. 
Losing our freedoms over this isn't justified, we're normalizing this kind of control, like we didn't have enough already. 

Kids aren't even at risk for covid and they have them all getting shots now, that one has me scratching my
Head, because what's it matter to them? They can spread it vaccinated or
Unvaccinated. Why take the risk
To make children guineas 

[kantuckid]

with all the hubub.  when non vaccinated folks get sick and come to the ED,  they are quite proud of themselves until they test positive.  Then they look down and apologize.  We are nice and say it is your decision.  Then when we tell them to go home and isolate themselves, they cannot believe we do not have a fix for them.  there are risks and benefits to all sides. each individual should be able to decide for themselves with out pressure from either pro or anti vax "extremes".  there are humans that would prob. agree to the vaccine, if they had not already been bullied and dug their heels in.

An extremely popular & successful (state champions x 2 etc,) teacher, football and wrestling coach died a few weeks back. He's from my wife's home county so we took note of his death. He was unvaccinated per his wife's post funeral comments. She also said he much regretted his choice to not vaccinate. 
People who work in close proximity to many others it would seem they'd have a different take on vaccination?
 Those few that I've heard their spiel said they figured the rest of us could vaccinate and be safe and OK while they did what they wanted to do by not being pressured to get the shot themselves. 
I wonder how many parents have done their kids regular vaccinations but abstained from their own covid shots? My nearest neighbor with 5 sons they object religiously to covid shots but he's a state cop and her a public grade school teacher. I'm friends with his Dad who has been very angry they don't vaccinate for covid so I hear about it still.  

[kantuckid]

@Paul_H I am typically answering questions.  so if you bring up vaccine, I try to address that question.  did that answer your question?

Doc here's a timely vaccine question:
 I always get the seasonal flu vaccination but have not as yet, nor have I had a covid-19 Moderna (probably) booster yet. Are there concerns for doing both shots near the same time, or not an issue for our immune systems?
Your correct that 61 doesn't "feel old" IMO either, but my current age does but it also isn't allowed to dominate my lifestyle-knock on wood. I just keep on getting repaired, lucky me...  8)
 

[samandothers]

Not the Doc but my wife and I did both 2 weeks ago and am still here to type this! ;D   We both had a sore arm a day or two and I had a slight headache at the base of my skull and temples for about a day.  That was handled with some over the counter meds.

[Paul_H]

The vaccine is the fence at the top of the cliff.
The Covid treatments are the ambulance at the bottom.

The cliff was formed by arrogant men that were playing god in a lab and they continue to do so and that was quickly excused and forgotten. Instead of a fence near a cliff I was asking about a path away from the bloody cliff because lemmings tend to spill over cliffs one after another.
What I was asking the Doctors was if there are other ways beside the vaccine and was it a good idea to only have a fence and the answer was no it isn't and yes we are working on other ways.

Remember Colin Powell and others broke through the fence and plummeted over the cliff. The fence is getting flimsy quickly

[Lostinmn]

In most large samples, the median and the average calculations are pretty close, but are usually not identical. I apologize for trying to be statistically correct.  Carry on!

So...
A physicist, a biologist and a statistician go hunting.
They are hiding together in the bushes and they see a deer 70ft ahead of them. The physicist makes some calculations, aims and fires at the deer. His shot ends up 5ft to the left of the deer. The biologist analyzes the deer's movement, aims and fires. His shot ends up 5ft to the right of the deer. The statistician drops his rifle and happily shouts, "WE GOT IT!!"
 :D ;D


A little levity for what has been a very tough topic, but so very informative.  A very big thanks to all the medical oriented folks who have helped out providing some context to much of the information floating around.  Your time and effort is very much appreciated!!

[SwampDonkey]

Canadian deaths from COVID 19 by age group, up to Oct 29, 2021.





Some countries under report deaths, even western countries including those in NA. Shocking? Not really.  :D

[Gary_C]

Remember Colin Powell and others broke through the fence and plummeted over the cliff. The fence is getting flimsy quickly

Colin Powell, who was 84 years old, had multiple myeloma, a rare blood cancer that weakens the immune system, increases the risk of severe COVID-19 and reduces vaccine effectiveness. 

He also had prostate cancer in 2003 and was being treated for early-stage Parkinson's disease, according to his longtime assistant Peggy Cifrino.

Many people online nevertheless jumped on the news, erroneously concluding that Powell's death was evidence that the COVID-19 vaccines don't work.

Colin Powell did not have the strength left to break thru any fences.

[Paul_H]

I think they would have counted it if he was unvaxxed. And I wonder why they would have even vaccinated one so close to the grave?

[Stephen1]

Canadian deaths from COVID 19 by age group, up to Oct 29, 2021.





Some countries under report deaths, even western countries including those in NA. Shocking? Not really.  :D

I believe what your graph shows us is that all the efforts should have and should still be focused on the 70+ age group. We should have sent food to thier door so they did not have to go out. We should not be locking down society as the reprocusions are huge in suicides, starvation ( way more still to come) drug and alchohol adictions, which lead to more suicides, child and domestic abuse, which will lead to more suicides.  The economic destruction is still to come, we are on the tip of the iceburg right now with our supply chains, crashing and driving up costs as we head to stagflatation. 

[Claybraker]

Okay here's a serious question, I got my 2nd Phizer April 7 then turned 65 in June. Should I get my booster, or wait until my next wellness check. Last time they gave me the flu vaccine and TDAP.  I know when I take my dog to the vet she gets a metal disc.