Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[doctorb]

 And I wonder why they would have even vaccinated one so close to the grave?

A fatalistic and potentially callous query, in my opinion.  His family might have a terse answer to your question.  The medical answer is that we protect those that are most vulnerable.  It's what we do.

[Walnut Beast]

Fact is like I said when this whole thing was heating up they will box you in eventually if your not getting vaccinated. We are definitely seeing that now. Insurance companies are starting to say you won't be covered if you don't get vaccinated. This is going to be a party for the insurance companies because they are going to tie it in to any and every ailment if you have have covid. The plans have been working well for the government. Beat the drum so anybody and everybody gets the jab. Then push hard everywhere to have requirements to have proof of being vaccinated before you can get in or go anywhere. What about all the people vaccinated that are getting covid??. Why is it a threat to anybody else if they are vaccinated??. Keep your mouth shut and conform!! NOT!! 😂

[Paul_H]

A fatalistic and potentially callous query, in my opinion.  His family might have a terse answer to your question.  The medical answer is that we protect those that are most vulnerable.  It's what we do.

I was hoping for that reply because it's the same one the unvaccinated have put forth for months now because there are many that wish us ill out loud almost daily. Thank you DrB from the bottom of my heart I've been waiting all day  

Back in June you promised me you would stand up for the unvaccinated if ever violence was done to them and I think people losing their jobs and homes through governmental coercion is getting mighty close to that. Maybe it's time.

[Southside]

5th Circuit court just stopped the jab mandate dead in it's tracks.  Just the Facts

[LeeB]

5th Circuit court just stopped the jab mandate dead in it's tracks.  Just the Facts

Got more info on that?

[Paul_H]

Federal Court Blocks Biden Administration?s Private Business COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate

[LeeB]

Thank you Paul.

[doctorb]

Paul -

I don't see how my reply changes anything I've said before.  As physicians we try and treat illness and protect from it.  I have never been for mandates, and I agree (and have stated here previously) that you have a choice.  I do understand the position of health care providers and their employers regarding mandates, as they are caught between a rock and a hard place.  I am against the feds telling private businesses what to do, yet, the reality is that they have been doing that for a long, long time.

I protested loudly a decade ago when my employer said that I must have a flu shot.  But I agree that nurses and physicians who work in areas with immune compromised patients, like cancer centers and ICU's, should have them. I feel the same about the Covid vaccine.

I am amused at the joy you expressed in reading my previous post.  The reality is that, the choice to not get vaccinated has an accompanying responsibility on the part of the individual.  Again, it is my opinion, but I believe a significant portion of those exercising that choice do not wear masks, do not distance, and do not refrain from indoor crowds.   I don't like government mandates and I feel you should have a choice whether to get vaccinated.  I do not feel that the unvaccinated should act as if life is back to 2019.  Choice has consequences.  So if one feels persecuted because one chooses not to get the vaccine, maybe the responsibility part of the equation has something to do with it.  Going out in public, there is little confidence that the behavior portion of the "choice" is being taken seriously.  My disappointment in this regard does not equate to wishing you, or anybody else, ill.

[Southside]

Per the CDC director herself, along with many other studies, the jab does not prevent transmission, nor does it prevent disease. Why do you feel someone who has not been jabbed should wear masks, distance, and otherwise alter their behavior via social isolation? They are not any more likely to pass on infection than someone who has been jabbed. 

The only potential argument one could make is that they are potentially endangering themselves, completely ignoring natural immunity in the conclusion. 

Following that logic, science would be able to dictate what one can eat, how long they are outside, what they can weigh, and how much they exercise, again completely ignoring natural genetics. 

[gspren]

Per the CDC director herself, along with many other studies, the jab does not prevent transmission, nor does it prevent disease. Why do you feel someone who has not been jabbed should wear masks, distance, and otherwise alter their behavior via social isolation? They are not any more likely to pass on infection than someone who has been jabbed.

From what I have read and heard it's not that it totally prevents it but the vax greatly reduces the chance of getting or transmitting so the un-vaxed pose a greater risk of getting or transmitting. It is a percentage thing, the vax has never been said to be 100% but it is quite a bit better than 0% protection.

[kantuckid]

The vaccine is the fence at the top of the cliff.
The Covid treatments are the ambulance at the bottom.

The cliff was formed by arrogant men that were playing god in a lab and they continue to do so and that was quickly excused and forgotten. Instead of a fence near a cliff I was asking about a path away from the bloody cliff because lemmings tend to spill over cliffs one after another.
What I was asking the Doctors was if there are other ways beside the vaccine and was it a good idea to only have a fence and the answer was no it isn't and yes we are working on other ways.

Remember Colin Powell and others broke through the fence and plummeted over the cliff. The fence is getting flimsy quickly

??? Colin Powell had multiple contributing medical health factors far beyond a simple e.g..

[SwampDonkey]

Protects against serious disease and hospitalization percentage wise, not so great with age or other health issues. 100% protection against infection? Nope, at best they said 94% just as the vaccines rolled out. And soon found out within months it goes down hill from there. They had no idea at that stage how long your best chances were sustained (level protection). You're still focused on infections, which the numbers indicate over and over better than 95% of infections recover and mostly unvaccinated and older folks (regardless of vax status) are in hospital by the numbers, and most recover. Here in NB, not 2% have died. If you have 2000 patients in hospitals and only 20 die, that's still 2000 patients. But might be 20,000 infections found through testing and many others not found, those 18,000 are not hospital patients but still patients being tested, but not taking a bed. ;)

[Gary_C]

The only potential argument one could make is that they are potentially endangering themselves, completely ignoring natural immunity in the conclusion.

Following that logic, science would be able to dictate what one can eat, how long they are outside, what they can weigh, and how much they exercise, again completely ignoring natural genetics.

I am having difficulty following that logic. First there are potentially more than your "only argument" and I don't see how as you seem to imply the unvaxed suddenly gained natural immunity?

[Paul_H]

.

I am amused at the joy you expressed in reading my previous post.  The reality is that, the choice to not get vaccinated has an accompanying responsibility on the part of the individual.  Again, it is my opinion, but I believe a significant portion of those exercising that choice do not wear masks, do not distance, and do not refrain from indoor crowds.  

I don't have the same observations as you on the pro choice crowd in fact I posted awhile back that I noticed at work that I could tell who had been vaxxed recently because they would get far too close for my liking ,almost an new found courage. I never did enjoy up close encounters with strangers.
To quote Southside

Per the CDC director herself, along with many other studies, the jab does not prevent transmission, nor does it prevent disease. Why do you feel someone who has not been jabbed should wear masks, distance, and otherwise alter their behavior via social isolation? They are not any more likely to pass on infection than someone who has been jabbed

I've heard that we are to avoid the vaxxed because they shed spike proteins- whether that is true or not I don't know but made a personal decision months ago not to avoid or revile another human based on their vax status.

[Southside]

Gary, my point was that the argument for expecting those who refuse the jab modify their behavior of masking, distancing, etc (all of which by the way the CDC director has said will have to continue post jab but that is a different discussion) does not consider and incorporate those who already have natural immunity as a result of having defeated Covid and therefore are not at any increased risk, over those who have taken the jab, of contracting it.  I did not mean to imply that just being un jabbed granted immunity.  

Since the jab does not prevent transmission, nor does it prevent disease, the risk of more serious disease (presuming that is accurate for this discussion) is an individual risk, not a society risk.  If one wishes to claim that risk causes a burden on society with increased hospital care etc., then the argument goes right to my last line about then allowing the government to dicate food, weight, exercise, etc as science has determined which allowaces of these prevent more serious illness such as heart disease, cancer, etc.   

[Gary_C]

Southside I completely agree that public policy has been deeply flawed in this pandemic and shows no sign of improving. But in the end, anger does not make for good decisions either. At some point we all have to throw out emotions, re-evaluate the situation and make decisions in our own best interests.

I had dinner one night this past week with my granddaughter that just delivered our sixth great grandchild about a month ago and while she is not vaccinated because of the pregnancy she asked me if she should now get vaccinated. She is young and extremely healthy (she is a runner) but as I told her the way things are going everyone is going to eventually get the virus anyway so it would be best to have some protection against severe infection since I have heard many times it very rough to get infection without being vaccinated (or previously being infected.) It's just not worth gambling with poor odds that you will not be severely affected.

Also last night I talked to my brother in Arizona on his 82nd birthday and he told me that his wife had gone alone to a family get together in California and one unvaccinated attendee thought she just had the beginnings of head cold and did not tell anyone. My sister in law came home, came down with symptoms, got tested and was positive. But by that time she had passed it to my brother who also then tested positive and then together they spent two weeks or rather lost two weeks as he described it fighting the infection. Both brother and wife are vaccinated but with both having comorbidities along with their age, the outcome may have been far worse without the vaccine.

I don't like being told I have to wear a seatbelt either but now I don't feel comfortable without it.  

[Southside]

One can avoid the use of a seatbelt by not using an automobile. This is more along the lines of just how far will we allow the government to go.

I completely support anyone who wishes to take the jab and hope it helps them, but don't tell me my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are dependent upon an unproven, very controversial, very profitable substance being injected into me. 

[SwampDonkey]

Pfizer's new antiviral sounds very promising and in the same class of drugs known for 25 years. Not yet peer reviewed.

Highly effective new antiviral - YouTube

[pineywoods]

I discovered John Campbel's daily blog quite some time ago, and I follow his posts on youtube. Lots of useful information without all the political bs. Just the facts, just what I need to make rational decisions.
affecting my family, 85 years old, defective heart, brain damage from a stroke, thyroid problems, and a few others.

[SwampDonkey]

He's well known to, and not one of the web quack sites that appear because of the internet. He's made videos since the VHS era, teaches and lectures and has been to the far corners of the globe. He's a true scientist without assertions, a skeptic, and knows science shifts with more data or better data. 8)

[kantuckid]

.

I am amused at the joy you expressed in reading my previous post.  The reality is that, the choice to not get vaccinated has an accompanying responsibility on the part of the individual.  Again, it is my opinion, but I believe a significant portion of those exercising that choice do not wear masks, do not distance, and do not refrain from indoor crowds.  

I don't have the same observations as you on the pro choice crowd in fact I posted awhile back that I noticed at work that I could tell who had been vaxxed recently because they would get far too close for my liking ,almost an new found courage. I never did enjoy up close encounters with strangers.
To quote Southside

Per the CDC director herself, along with many other studies, the jab does not prevent transmission, nor does it prevent disease. Why do you feel someone who has not been jabbed should wear masks, distance, and otherwise alter their behavior via social isolation? They are not any more likely to pass on infection than someone who has been jabbed

I've heard that we are to avoid the vaxxed because they shed spike proteins- whether that is true or not I don't know but made a personal decision months ago not to avoid or revile another human based on their vax status.

I used to work with a guy, a fellow vet who I often wondered how he made it living in close proximity forced on you in military (he was artillery/US Army) and things they do. He's from the same county as Keith Whitley if you know that name in music?
 "James" was a custodian and well known for being a school hallway conversationalist as he was quite friendly and did like to talk but in a comical manner he'd dance away from anyone who violated his space.
 As a counselor I was trained to recognize and respect the "psychological distance" of others. It varies considerably too. With James some would sort of "push him away" by there hidden agenda to get a laugh from him dancing away as they moved in. It's a human thing.

Another human social "thing" is those who are crowd seekers such as found attending fairs, festivals, music events, so on. My psychological distance gets closer when she's cute FWIW. My need to seek crowds is basically non-existent-maybe why we live back in the woods?  :D 
I did people fore a living for years so now I (sort of) go the other direction.  

[wisconsitom]

Some in this thread may have made inferences that once you are "old",  it is ok to die of covid.  I remember someone once asked something like "who would want to live to that age", regarding someone that was 91 years old.  I said I know who wants to live to be 91.....someone who is 90.

Insert your own age into that equation, and oh, by the way, be sure to get back to us when you're ready to be put away for good! :D

[Paul_H]

If you are refering to me you are off half a bubble. When Colin Powell died it was reported as a covid death where I saw it. Another member said he was very ill and I questioned why they would give him the shot. It's a good question but one I knew was going to outrage those that love to be outraged.

When my own Mum was dying of alzhiemers a nurse wanted to restrain her because she wandered around the facility at night and he was concerned she would fall and break her hip. We refused the restraint which would have been torture for her and my sister who was a 30+ year RN said if she falls she breaks her hip she will be cared for with no surgery. Mum passed away not long after this peacefully and we knew that would have been her wish as we saw her give the same care to her Aunt that suffered the same disease.
Both of my wife's parent wanted no heroics at the end and would have declined the vaccination. Her mother simply stopped eating and her dad had a series of strokes but was ready to go.
We respected our parents wishes and although we would have loved to have them around longer,know that their wishes are more important.
I've seen a couple on here many months ago allude to the unvaccinated dying is ok and let nature(karma) take it's course.

So if you are saying I think it's ok for the old to perish of covid because they are old you are misguided or.... 

[HemlockKing]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QabAtYBnqro

No cuts, no edits, just a senator pressing for answers and getting baloney in response

[Southside]

The Department of Labor, OSHA, has now exempted truck drivers from the jab mandate. So the list of exempted employees per the Federal mandate is Congress and all staff, Federal Judicial System in it's entirety, USPS in it's entirety, State and Municipal employees or other entities that fund via tax monies, companies with under 100 employees, and most every truck driver. 

Additionally, the mandate is claiming it's authority under emergency powers so by definition it would expire, if it is able to be revived at all. 

Draw your own conclusions as to how this mandate is "based on science".