Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[Don P]

I think each has it's own risk factor of where we live . That helps me decide if I need a vaccine. Right now I see the risk factor of getting the MRNA vaccine and its side effects are a higher risk factor than me getting C19.  If I lived and worked in a higher risk area, my thoughts might be get the Vaccine.

That probably answers part of what was being asked above. A decision based on the actual risk factors at this point is pretty cut and dried, it's more dangerous to go out for ice cream. Among the unvaxxed these are decisions based on perceived risk factors, that's a tougher nut to crack.

[Paul_H]

That probably answers part of what was being asked above. A decision based on the actual risk factors at this point is pretty cut and dried, it's more dangerous to go out for ice cream. Among the unvaxxed these are decisions based on perceived risk factors, that's a tougher nut to crack.

Many would use this same statement for the risk of covid 19 virus. More dangerous going out for ice cream,perceived risks etc.
Some have told stories here of the unvaccinated pleading on their deathbeds for the vaccine which sounds like it was written by an out of work second rate penthouse writer. It would be easy to start posting vax injury videos of young people seizing and eyes rolled back in their heads while loved ones look on helplessly but it is not the place.
You want the vax,get it, don't want it, don't get it.

[SwampDonkey]

Some have told stories here of the unvaccinated pleading on their deathbeds for the vaccine which sounds like it was written by an out of work second rate penthouse writer.

That is not true. No video I saw where patients where begging for a vaccine as they were dying. The truth is, video was showing patients that wished they had been vaccinated before they got infected.  Some were not anti vaxxers, they just didn't perceive the risk of the disease or get around to getting the shots, others were antivax. A completely different message. There is also video by the NYT showing antivaxxers, change there minds on the death bed (not begging for a shot) as well as those that never changed their minds to the end. You can get it from all the angles. Here is an antivaxxer who admits to spreading misinformation on Facebook on the vaccine and then nearly dies from COVID, changes her tune about the vaccine. Once anti-vaxx, New Brunswick woman pleads to unvaccinated not to follow her lead | CBC News

Some polio vaccine facts.
Takes 4 shots, important that each vaccination is received as scheduled. Can be infected between shots.

the more serious side effects:
extreme drowsiness , seizures, high fever, severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis), trouble breathing, severe dizziness.

And here a study (links to others) on myocardial complications of vaccines including polio.

Myocardial complications of immunisations - PubMed

Take away? You can always find trouble if you want to go looking for it. Mostly rare events in millions of vaccinations.

[Southside]

That same NYT recently got busted for using mannequins in "mock up" ICU rooms and passing the photos off as genuine. 

Alterior motives. 

[kantuckid]

96 is quite the feat, imagine turning 66 and having another 30 years of life left

I will be reminded how nice the first 30 were, I'm sure, when ever I go to move. :D :D

There are several Life Expectancy Calculators online-if you get real concerned maybe try one out? ;D 
I was in a school library on a puter entertaining myself on a break after I'd retired from FT work. The young librarian walked by and she gave me one of those websites to try out-I was maybe 58 that day. No doubt she thought I was already old back then.
 FWIW, as I recall, I'd already be dead if it had been correct, knock on wood. 
Charts says I've got from 78 another 9.43 years left based on age alone. 
There's another one to measure your hand/eye coordination which I'm still good to go on. It's called the "ruler drop test" if your game to find out if you need to turn in yer keys, or not? :D 

[kantuckid]

That same NYT recently got busted for using mannequins in "mock up" ICU rooms and passing the photos off as genuine.

Alterior motives.

The NYT's info I posted was public information about covid for various health agencies, no mannequins?  :D FWIW, I read them for their version of not much that matches my own way of thinking, plus it's free (son subscribes and gives it too 5 people free), plus wife & I do their word games to maintain our senior sanities. 
I also read the WSJ (free as well) for another version of whatever's called information & opinion and it's mostly vastly different than the NYT's "stuff".
Rest easy... :D 

[Paul_H]

 There is also video by the NYT showing antivaxxers, change there minds on the death bed (not begging for a shot) as well as those that never changed their minds to the end. You can get it from all the angles. Here is an antivaxxer who admits to spreading misinformation on Facebook on the vaccine and then nearly dies from COVID, changes her tune about the vaccine. Once anti-vaxx, New Brunswick woman pleads to unvaccinated not to follow her lead | CBC News

Bill,
I could find plenty that show remorseful vaccine injured as well and it is not pretty so why don't we stay away from these type of posts (?)

[SwampDonkey]

That same NYT recently got busted for using mannequins in "mock up" ICU rooms and passing the photos off as genuine.

Alterior motives.

Sounds like made up crock. Quite the feet to have them talking and breathing. :D

[Paul_H]

‘Error in judgement’: CBC Edmonton regrets mannequin’s use in COVID-19 news report | The Province

Originally reported as an actual hospital and later corrected. Lazy reporting or fake news? Is there much talking in ICU?

[SwampDonkey]

People will dwell on stuff like it's a mass extinction, when it's a rare event. The information or disinformation age sure doesn't bring society together too well. Evidence from studies showing a good many different vaccines have similar risks are simply ignored. So I see no point in talking about it further. I'll be increasing my chances of survival by numbers.

[Paul_H]

Sounds like you're all set

[BradMarks]

Today's numbers in the paper.  2/3 of local Covid hospitalizations - non vaccinated, 1/3 vaccinated.  The vaccinated percentage keeps trending up. Was hovering around 15%, then 20-22, now 33%, on a weekly basis. Just the facts.

[SwampDonkey]

Meanwhile Japan of 128 Million residents?, only 74 cases, one of the highest vaccination rates. They have a few hypothesis, 1)the delta variant has become mutated enough that a protein required to replicate has gone fowl, so it makes duds, 2) a protein common in the Japanese population is effective in fighting the virus ( no ethic studies about this in the USA), 3) Ivermectin is freely available over there since Oct 13th? 4)they practice social distancing, masking and hand washing more religiously over there. This was going on before COVID, during flu season for instance.

Of note, something like 1) happened with SARS1 and it is now extinct. It's gone.

A month or more ago their cases sky rocketed, now next to nothing.

[doc henderson]

Brad, when 100% of people are vaccinated, then all cases will be in vaccinated people.  as the rate of vaccination goes up, so does the percentage.  here it is less than 10% in the hospital are vaccinated breakthrough cases.  i guess your point is the vaccine is not worth it.  but most deaths in addition to age and co-morbidity are unvaccinated.  just the facts.  the vaccine does not prevent all disease.  but if your chance of survival is increased double, why not do it.. unless you are convinced it (the vaccine) will be more likely to kill you.  the misinformation.

[SwampDonkey]

In Canada, 98% of cases are mild, 2% severe. Cases have levelled off since Oct 18th, averaging ~2400 daily cases nation wide. There are some highs and lows, but the trend since then is steady. 82% of severe cases are unvaccinated. Only 5% are severe cases in fully vaccinated people, the remaining percentage are those not fully vaccinated including recommended time after both doses, which delays effectiveness. Over 60.1M doses administered to a population of 38M (2020 census data). Continue to believe vaccines aren't working and contributing to high numbers of negative outcomes, the evidence so far is overwhelmingly against that fairy tale.

[BradMarks]

Doc:  Your logic and mine are a little different OK.  I've seen you and others post that all people will either get Covid or the vaccine. I disagree with that statement. Are you talking 10 yrs down the road?  Again, I'll state that less than 10% of our county population has been inflicted.  Just my opinion, but the entire other 90% is going to get it?  I don't think so.  Have we forgotten the Amish population?, disdain for gov't., disdain for hospitals, disdain for public education, and Covid does not seem to be a problem for them.  Perhaps they all got it already.  Just saying.

[leeroyjd]

Interesting about the Amish. 
Must be the raw soy milk.

[SwampDonkey]

They have not been forgotten, the COVID has hit them hard in some communities. They are vaccinating but very few or 'secretively', can't say percentage wise, but some are or have been in the vaccination clinics.

COVID-19 Has Hit The Amish Community Hard. Still, Vaccines Are A Tough Sell

Fact Check-Amish communities have been affected by the COVID-19 pandemic | Reuters

Lots of Facebook and Istagram false information. My brother saw some "Irish Dr" on Facebook the other day that claims COVID isn't a real virus. Or at least that is what my brother now believes. Saw it on there. I know my brother well, and he has always fallen for stuff easily over his whole life. What my brother was trying to say was completely non sequitur as usual. :D

[doctorb]

Brad-

It's not quite that rosey with the Amish.

https://wvutoday.wvu.edu/stories/2021/06/22/death-and-religion-excess-deaths-sweep-through-amish-and-mennonite-communities-during-covid-19-pandemic

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/04/28/990986056/covid-19-has-hit-the-amish-community-hard-still-vaccines-are-a-hard-sell

Recent posts regarding herd immunity amongst the Amish are worthy of analysis.  I'm fine with the idea that staying away from government is good for you, but it is incorrect to think they haven't suffered.  As a population, they may have less obesity and comorbidities, which potentially could lower their mortality risk with Covid. The perception that they have avoided Covid ("not a problem for them") may not be exactly accurate.  If they have had Covid, their immunity will fade and they may get it again.  There is no silver bullet.

[Ianab]

The "excess deaths" is the tell tale. They may have less cases reported if they aren't going to get testing / treatment. Most survive and recover, but aren't counted. Some could die at home without being diagnosed?  But like the general population, excess deaths shows "something" is going on.

Church groups are a common factor in local outbreaks, not because they are doing anything "wrong", just that large gatherings in enclosed spaces is the perfect place for the virus to spread.

[thecfarm]

Not going to be a great Thanksgiving here. Stepson family all have it. He is finally able to walk more than 20 feet. DIL is back working.    He got hit the hardest, hospital for a week. 
Turkey is getting ready now. Looks like a stay at home holiday.

[gspren]

I have not been posting much on here but as to the Amish we live in a heavy Amish area and for the past 8+ years my nearest neighbors are a young Amish family. The father is about 29 years old and he had covid as did some of his family but not overly bad. I talk to him fairly often since he pumps water out of my creek for his greenhouse, when asked he just says some of their community got vaccinated and some didn't, just as some got fairly sick and some didn't. They won't get very specific about their health care and I don't blame them.

[doc henderson]

the majority of Amish here have great respect for Dr.s and our hospital.  but they feel if it is their time to go, then so be it.  I guess the ones that do not like us, stay home.  when the elderly get sick at the end of life, they take them home and care for them.  they prefer to not stay in the hospital, because they are not babies and can care for themselves at home.  they also do not want to be in, just because the doc is worried about a lawsuit.  I now think you will get both the vaccine and disease, or at least the disease if you do not get the vaccine.  I am vaccinated, and to my knowledge have not had the disease.  I no longer think that me getting the vaccine saved the rest of the world, and that is why I do not approve of the mandates.  the vaccine mostly protects the individual. an individual should decide for themselves.  We originally thought we could snuff it out.  no.  Brad it is ok for us to disagree.

[SwampDonkey]

I have had the same feeling for some time now when seeing the data and also we have had quite a few doctors telling us that the virus still has a good chance of being spread by the vaccinated, which evidence is quite telling as it turns out. The best part, if there is one, is low cases of severity in the vaccinated. Look at the UK and even worst the rest of Europe, even though most cases are not severe over there in the vaccinated, it's still spreading and cases rising a lot in smaller countries, hitting the unvaccinated worst by the severity numbers. Going to find more severity with a larger group of infections to begin with because not everyone is in the best of health. I am strongly against some sort of passport or cutting off someones means of support. That's just craziness. But at the same time look after yourself and be sensible in these times. There are many simple ways to improve your chances.

[doctorb]

Here's some good news.  Reinfection with Covid is less severe!

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2108120

"Reinfections had 90% lower odds of resulting in hospitalization or death than primary infections. Four reinfections were severe enough to lead to acute care hospitalization. None led to hospitalization in an ICU, and none ended in death. Reinfections were rare and were generally mild, perhaps because of the primed immune system after primary infection."