Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[Roxie]

No idea if it's related to omicron, but the number of spam calls I'm receiving has exploded since it was announced.

In today's press conference at the White House, Jen Psaki confirmed that robocalls are going out regarding where to get the vaccine and booster in your area. The reporter said that he has never had so many robocalls on his cellphone. She laughed and said that apparently CVS is getting aggressive. 
     

[Stephen1]

Cute but scarry (to me) TV news from AU showing the roadblocks from two covid quarantine camp escapees being sought after.
Report was followed by saying the Canadian regs saying the un-vaccinated can no longer board a plane or train. In the USA if that happens... 8)

It isn't cute at all.  This is  really really scary.  covid camps in AU and I am banned from travelling in Canada without a vaccine . It is a fact! Our Parliment has been shut down, they are using Zoom to debate. Yet they are all double vaccinated but Trudeau will not let them get together. 

[doc henderson]

the vaccine works to overall reduce the severity of disease.  I do not believe in making a law for people to have to get the vaccine. If you get it, it should be because you think your chances are better with it.  We see every day that the majority of the people testing positive and getting admitted to the hospital are unvaccinated.  90%.  The clog is not manufactured, but the result of the things we take care of year to year, plus add in a pandemic.  I said we do not yet know how the current vaccine will work with the newest variant.  It may be the new omicron will be so infectious and so benign, it could burn itself out.  We had a shortage before the mandate.  It is on hold now in Kansas at our hospital.  we put it off as long as we could, but if you accept Medicare, you have to do the mandate or not be paid.  So, no one wanted it (the mandate) at our hospital but had to if we wanted paid.  I am not a supporter of suicide or abortion, thanks.  What we see every day and what you are talking about do not match up.  Plenty of healthcare folks have dies from covid in the process of caring for all kinds of disease during this pandemic.  the control in this experiment is that half our community is vaccinated, and 90% of people testing positive and are being admitted are not vaccinated.  I was commenting on the video that seemed to imply that "we" have been disassembling our ICU capacity and shutting down hospitals over 20 years in anticipation of this pandemic?  whomever we is.  Hospitals do get donations, but if they close, it is because they cannot keep the doors open.  It is a business.  the first-year class in our nursing school is down numbers.  this will go on even if the pandemic ends.  please re-read what I wrote, and I am happy to address any concerns you have with it.

[Lostinmn]

  Mitigation and the vaccine are part of the big plan.  I do not agree with mandates, but I do agree with getting vaccinated.  It is like the guy that goes out driving around in a flood and now is stuck and needs rescued.  apologize all you want, but others have now put their lives at risk to save you.  We also try to save the life of the guy holding a family at gun point after they are taken down by police.  And the impossible meth addict that comes in for the 40th time threatening all the staff and disrupting the care of everyone else.  I do not know how the vaccine and the newest virus will pan out, but we keep showing up for work.

No it's not like that.

I think it is exactly like that.  My father had to have a heart value replaced recently, he is vaccinated and did all the docs asked to prep including extreme distancing so not even a breakthrough case would jeopardies his appointed surgery date and time.   Yet his procedure was delayed and risked getting cancelled and rescheduled due to staffing shortages related to the huge influx of COVID patients with a recent MN spike is hospitalization. Guess what, you can see the data yourself at COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Weekly Update - Minnesota Dept. of Health but there is a huge difference in the weekly rate in those being hospitalized.  Around 5 per 100,000 for vaccinated, around 80 per 100,000 for unvaccinated.    
How much lower would the hospital system strain be if it wasn't for unvaccinated taking up more resources because of their "choice".   So while you may make a choice, don't pretend it doesn't have consequence beyond yourself.

[Paul_H]

A guy I know well lost his nephew last friday ,29 years old to a brain bleed. Recently vaxxed. There is a lot of these happening in our area. Fact
I don't accept that the unvaccinated are the cause of your dad's or anyone's problems. Anybody now it seems can infect another.

And the beyond myself, read back and see,we showed up every single day on the job,never once did we hide away from our duty.We we concerned" Dang right we were.

Doc,
are you saying that layoffs of healthcare workers has not had any effect on staff shortages?
It stands to reason that we see things differently because you are immersed in it in your work place and we see dozens of normal healthy people every day year round and those that have had covid have lived through it. The one person I know that died with covid he had other serious health issues and died just shy of 80. I know one man that died within hours of his first vax and two more within a week but that is taboo to explore or question.
I understand folks concerned for their family but it's hard to ignore the tyrannical methods used around the world in forcing something into a citizen's bloodstream without their consent and the tacit agreement of it.

[Paul_H]

It shouldn't take a lawyer to be able to take other treatments?

Dying COVID-19 Patient Recovers After Court Orders Hospital to Administer Ivermectin

The drug "most definitely" saved the elderly patient's life "because his condition changed right immediately after he took ivermectin," attorney for the family, Kirstin M. Erickson of Chicago-based Mauck and Baker

[Southside]

The medical staff mandate executive order has been shot down in all 50 states, it is no longer enforceable. 

[Lostinmn]

Paul,

With all do respect to everyone's right to opinions.  

How do you reconcile the fact that in state with over 70% vaccination rate, such a disproportionate amount of hospital resources is dedicated to unvaccinated people?  This is not my opinion, these are the figures easily available for review by anyone that wishes see them.  Even if you consider the potential statistical error factors in data collection and reporting, the overall magnitude of the differences is pretty overwhelming.

If your position is that an individuals right to choice to not be vaccinated outweighs that inequity in resource allocation and overall impact on others, that I can respect is at least a philosophical position that is very open to moral and ethical debates and discussion regarding individual vs collective societal rights.

If you are stating that one's choice doesn't impact others at least to some degree, I would suggest the premise for that position is fundamentally flawed and clearly negated by overwhelming evidence to the contrary in this case and many more of historical evidence.

I took your previous comments as indicating the latter, if that is not the case, it is my mistake in understanding your point and I apologize.

[Paul_H]

Have you read the constitution and what it has done for you and why people flee from communist countries and tyranny and risk life and limb to get here to Canada and the USA?  Blood has been shed and lives have been lost, King George didn't hand out those freedoms they were taken. Don't cheapen it for a temporary feeling of safety.

We've been exposed and have felt ill in 2020,maybe we had it maybe not.Getting to a clinic was like trying to break in to Ft Knox. We avoid the elderly and the weak but we all have jobs to do as part of society. The jabs are not a prevention like they were first touted to be they are now another form of help with a hint of tyranny behind it. Those vaccinated two and three times can still spread the virus,can still get sick and even die.

[Hilltop366]

Curious..... I have never heard or read that the vaccine was 100% effective but have heard and read opinions that it does not work, who is it that proved that the vaccine has not prevented someone from getting covid?

I'm speculating that there may be millions of people who have been vaccinated that have not caught covid, could it be the vaccine?

[Paul_H]

Look back a few pages where it showed CNN's changing reports from last Spring to Sept. Have there been more cases in 2021 than 2020? The vaccines started in Dec 2020 so there should be a real marked decline in infections. I don't know if that is right or wrong

[Tristen]

I try not to post in this group, i don't think anything i say is going to change anyone's perception of Covid.  But how about 4 easy facts i think we can all agree with.  

Fact 1.   The covid19 shot is not a vaccine any more than the flu shot is.  

Fact 2  If every single human on he planet gets the Covid shot and all the booster shots, Covid 19 would not go away.  It would still exist and still be carried and transmitted by humans.

Fact 3  Covid 19 is not like Measles, Polio, (with current medical technology) humans can not be made immune to it.  

Fact 4 We do not currently know the long term effects from the Covid 19 shots, positive or negative effects

Four simple FACTS i would hope we could all agree on.  Correct ?  

[firefighter ontheside]

The flu shot and covid vaccines are in fact by definition vaccines.  You're mistaken about your first fact.

[Hilltop366]

I will add one:

We do not currently know the long term effects from having Covid 19.

[SwampDonkey]

To me what matters most is if the infection causes serious illness after I've been exposed and being vaccinated fully. If I catch it and I have mild symptoms it has worked, if I never get it it has worked. All this you 'got it despite being vaccinated' doesn't matter until you become seriously ill. Pretty much anyone can spread it, not everyone. So far, the odds are in my favour, the numbers show most of the serious cases are in unvaccinated. The percentage daily positive results in Canada found from testing is 3%, over a 7 day average.

When you compare with 1 year ago infections right now are 1/3 or less of the same time last year. When you look at us on Canada's east coast, we don't even register on the scale of things. We have cases for sure, but it's not gotten out of hand. Look at the data, we hover pretty close to the y axis in a fairly straight path, which is a good thing. We get little bumps, but never thousands of people in new cases.

COVID-19 daily epidemiology update - Canada.ca

[Lostinmn]

I will add one:

We do not currently know the long term effects from having Covid 19.

Yes, we don't know as we'll need time and study.  
However, there are already people looking at and working on starting studies and the the the overall early trend indications for long term cognitive, heart, lung and other longer impacts which will be more fully reveled with time are disconcerting.   
Hope for patients with post-COVID syndrome - Mayo Clinic News Network
Beyond Brain Fog: Neurologist Details Long-Lasting Symptoms Post-COVID ? NBC Chicago 
COVID ?Long Haulers?: Long-Term Effects of COVID-19 | Johns Hopkins Medicine
While I haven't seen much for peer reviewed data as the process is only getting going, most suggest that there is or suspect a correlation noted between reduction of covid illness via vaccination with reduction in likely hood of long covid and the level of severity of long covid symptoms.  

[Paul_H]

The flu shot and covid vaccines are in fact by definition vaccines.  You're mistaken about your first fact.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article254111268.html

Before the change, the definition for "vaccination" read, "the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease." Now, the word "immunity" has been switched to "protection."

Some verbal gymnastics to fit though the hoop

Now while we're at it can someone point me to a study of long term effects of the vaccine?

[Lostinmn]

Now while we're at it can someone point me to a study of long term effects of the vaccine?

Now that is a great question and I've been trying to find good data to compare to risk from covid.  Its quite hard to find a balanced report that clearly shows the risks of each and lays them out for easy comparative analysis.

Most of what I found shows the risk from vaccine is a magnitude lower then risk from covid with no immunity (natural or vaccine induced).  However, most information is piecemeal, I've love to read a well research paper laying out the statistics side by side.

Anyone sourced anything close?

I have recently just read, The Benefits of Vaccinating Kids against COVID Far Outweigh the Risks of Myocarditis - Scientific American

which models the question for kids on vaccine risk vs risk from covid.  Course the trouble with models is multitude, but interesting nonetheless.

[Paul_H]

 If you had the disease covid 19, you may have thousands of antibodies. to many parts of the virus.  I would think (based on my understanding of virology and the immune system) you would be better equipped to fight the disease from the variant, better than just vexed.  It sounds like a different configuration to the spike protein that the monoclonal and immunization are directed to.

This was from a few days ago and it is what I've heard from other sources. Our immune system is a miracle

[Lostinmn]

some lite reading for those that can't sleep tonight   ;D

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00224-3/fulltext
 
This is a nice overview of current vaccines
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison
 
Myocarditis after mRNA study in Israel
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109730
 
Myocarditis risk
https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/comment/myocarditis-risks-covid-19-vaccines/
 
meta-analysis study
https://idpjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40249-021-00915-3
 
Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee Meeting

https://www.fda.gov/media/153514/download

[Lostinmn]

 If you had the disease covid 19, you may have thousands of antibodies. to many parts of the virus.  I would think (based on my understanding of virology and the immune system) you would be better equipped to fight the disease from the variant, better than just vexed.  It sounds like a different configuration to the spike protein that the monoclonal and immunization are directed to.

This was from a few days ago and it is what I've heard from other sources. Our immune system is a miracle

Yes it is, but some context is necessary.  

You need to get and survive the initial virial infection with the least negative impact, I would suggest the vaccine gives you the greatest chance of encountering a covid variant and have a milder result. You will have with additional opportunities to increase your immune system beyond that base level of projection to developed with additional encounters which at this point, is pretty much a when, not if scenario.

We are using the miracle of our immune system to fight with a little help.  This is the very principle of modern vaccine medicine.  Just look at the history of polio, measles, small pox, chicken pox, rabies and many others.

I'm not saying medicine is perfect.  Notice it is practiced, which is always been a interesting term to me.  However, anyone that doubts the overall effect of modern gains in medicine should spend a little time with long range life expectancy charts and the changes over time.

Alright, enough from me for a while. Time for dinner, have a great night all!

[Walnut Beast]

Now while we're at it can someone point me to a study of long term effects of the vaccine?

Now that is a great question and I've been trying to find good data to compare to risk from covid.  Its quite hard to find a balanced report that clearly shows the risks of each and lays them out for easy comparative analysis.

Most of what I found shows the risk from vaccine is a magnitude lower then risk from covid with no immunity (natural or vaccine induced).  However, most information is piecemeal, I've love to read a well research paper laying out the statistics side by side.

Anyone sourced anything close?

I have recently just read, The Benefits of Vaccinating Kids against COVID Far Outweigh the Risks of Myocarditis - Scientific American

which models the question for kids on vaccine risk vs risk from covid.  Course the trouble with models is multitude, but interesting nonetheless.

That is totally backwards of a talk show I listened to by a expert that was on. He and several others said the kids should absolutely not be or have been vaccinated. The risks and after affects are more than the benefits. Also in the general population that they  are finding out many complications in cardiovascular problems from the vaccines

[Runningalucas]

 If you had the disease covid 19, you may have thousands of antibodies. to many parts of the virus.  I would think (based on my understanding of virology and the immune system) you would be better equipped to fight the disease from the variant, better than just vexed.  It sounds like a different configuration to the spike protein that the monoclonal and immunization are directed to.

This was from a few days ago and it is what I've heard from other sources. Our immune system is a miracle

Yes it is, but some context is necessary.  

You need to get and survive the initial virial infection with the least negative impact, I would suggest the vaccine gives you the greatest chance of encountering a covid variant and have a milder result. You will have with additional opportunities to increase your immune system beyond that base level of projection to developed with additional encounters which at this point, is pretty much a when, not if scenario.

We are using the miracle of our immune system to fight with a little help.  This is the very principle of modern vaccine medicine.

My partner's cousin(50 years old, was healthy) listened to some folks with similar opinions, and her PCP.  She wanted natural immunity; so tested many times for covid, but all were negative.  She got vaccinated 6 months ago since not being able to catch it for a natural immunity.  for the last 4, and half months, she's suffered from kidney infections that won't go away.  She's been hospitalized twice for Sepsis.  Due to the length of time her PCP, and hospitalists have had her on antibiotics, she's now suffering from C.diff. 

While she's undergone every test I think there is, the docs throw up their hands, and say they don't know.  What they've been open with her about, is that effectively she has no immune system at this point. Of course, never stating the obvious, the big change was the Pfizer shot(s). 

The cousin gave us her shot(s) batch numbers today, and we looked them up.  Both sets were in batches with numerous adverse reactions.   (Why wasn't this done at the hospital?; where's the public protection against toxic batches?)

What's her recourse?  None, all EUA, and while drug companies stocks soar,  she gets to report to VAERS, and if she's lucky get a few hundred bucks for her troubles, and bloody diarrhea.  What a deal!

On that note, VAERS is highly inaccurate, due to lack of reporting, yet they're nearing 20k deaths attributed directly to these different injections?   The vaccine is labeled 'safe, and effective', yet it doesn't stop spread, sickness, or even death from Covid.  

And before anyone wants to argue that last sentence above, they say sickness is more mild, and death, they know is somehow less painful???, but that's the clincher, still sick, and still dead.

[doc henderson]

@Tristen we will never knw about fact two untill everyone is vaccinated.  we will not know all the long-term issues with covid or the shot for many years.

[Paul_H]

Until or unless?