Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[Paul_H]

But still, you have to be fully vaccinated in order to travel in or out of the countries so there should be ample time for the protection and prevention?

[SwampDonkey]

Talking about incubation time of the infections, not vaccine. Vaccinated can get COVID and spread it, even if the % of cases is low, and testing over all has proved cases are much lower in vaccinated. Remember, no vaccine for COVID offers 100% protection. Most cases in vaccinated are mild.

[Paul_H]

I remember

What I'm wondering about is the science behind the lockdowns which I'm sure have many redundancies built in to prevent these outbreaks by completely restricting or preventing altogether the movement of unvaccinated citizens and allowing the limited movements of the fully vaccinated. I can see if there was a variant appearing here and there if a unvaccinated person slipped through the cracks but this has happened worldwide several times now.

What is going on?

[Mooseherder]

I'm shocked people are ignoring the cardiovascular system problems many are having around the world.  They don't want us to know what is in it and we should be protected from human experimentation.   Something is seriously wrong and their actions are crimes against humanity.  This is criminal.

[newoodguy78]

Not everyone is ignoring the cardiovascular problems going around. There's a few of us myself included that have been real close to very healthy people that suddenly suffered severe cardiovascular issues including death. Those people that have seen this type of thing unfold repeatedly are getting shushed, shunned and accused of wearing tinfoil hats but certainly aren't ignoring it. 

[doctorb]

Paul -

I tend to agree.  I do not see the science that supports lockdowns, as the virus (pick your variant) has already spread well before they are instituted.  This is such a mess.  I think it's pretty clear that lockdowns, in certain geographic and cultural circumstances, can dampen and sometimes significantly slow the spread.  But the timing and conditions and the citizens must be perfect, or close to it.  With global travel being what it is, I don't see untargeted lockdowns as the answer.

[Southside]

Those citizens, whom have done nothing wrong, committed no crime, then become subjects.  

[Gary_C]

My point is long before the book, he is listed as Left leaning antivax advocate.  Let me know if he changed his opinion.  but I have trouble trusting a comment coming from someone who made their mind up about the covid vaccine 20 years ago.  sorry.  and as you can see from my profile, i love and live by that EB quote.  

This book review just came to my attention. To respond to your request along with the doubts of doctorb, please consider the attached link. Book Review: The Real Anthony Fauci by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
From what little of what I've seen of the book, there is little antivax rhetoric but a whole bunch of discussion and quotes from some very well respected doctors in the front line of the fight against this pandemic over the almost total lack of guidance for early treatments for infected patients. Here is some of what's in the book review though I strongly urge you to read the entire review.

Never in a million years would I have thought to be on the same side of an issue as an environmental lawyer and Democratic icon, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
But after two years of America living under the biotech dictatorship of Dr. Anthony Fauci [Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID)]...here we are.
I didn't anticipate writing a review for Kennedy's latest book, The Real Anthony Fauci, either. However, when the publisher appeared on Tucker Carlson to describe how the publishing community was throttling publicity for this book, I sensed that the media was once again assuming the role of Fauci's guardian. So, I find myself reviewing a book the New York Times won't review....one more time.

Let me start by saying that Kennedy's book is exceedingly well written, especially on this highly scientific topic. He has managed to walk the fine line of explaining technical issues without dumbing it down to triviality. And his assessment of Fauci's work as NIAID director is detailed, gripping and quite disturbing.
The book is incredibly well-referenced, with quotes from Nobel Laureate-winning scientists, citations to a plethora of scientific studies, and references to government reports that have been suppressed. 
I have read few books that have affected me as much as The Real Anthony Fauci. My only quibbles with it are some tedious insults to President Donald Trump and distracting homages to green activist causes. And it is a bit hard to take glowing references to Senator Ted Kennedy (but that's family, so I will let that slide). However, those passages are few, and the writing is otherwise solid

Here is what one of the commenters had to say.

Everyone needs to read this book to get a better understanding of the forces that are distorting our lives. Whatever you think of RFK jr, you need to hear what he has to say about Fauci and the corruption of science and medicine.

[SwampDonkey]

Every vaccine has had some risk. With the small pox vaccine there have been ischemic cardiac events (reduces the heart muscle's ability to pump blood). No one remembers back in the 70's it was a heated debate over needing a small pox vaccine shot since there was no cases of small pox. In fact the WHO offered anyone $1000 reward to report a single case anywhere. No one collected. We are still vaccinating for small pox in preschoolers.

The polio vaccine has been associated with cases of peripheral nerve demyelinating disorder, but no causation shown since many cases had multiple vaccinations. Thrombocytopenia has been associated with the polio vaccine, a decrease in the number Of platelets that are involved in blood clotting. SID in infants was reported as well. No clinical trials conducted. These were rare events without enough evidence to find causation.

You could go on and on looking at vaccine side effects for many vaccines. You can find studies on them all. Adverse effects happen, are rare, while the vaccine improves your odds over the disease. There will likely be another vaccine for another bug down the line and we'll be vilifying it to. Personally, I have not seen anyone suffering from the current vaccines. I've got family in their 90's, and have only seen one death. He had serious health problems for years and contacted COVID in a senior's home in Massachusetts. I've got family who are teachers, nurses and those working with folks in crisis. They've all got the shot, even my 96 year old cousin in a nursing home, who will outlive us all. :D

I'm no party to making a vaccine a villain. I've seen this many times, drumming up fear and beating the drums. Some people have short memories. ;D

[Ricker]

Criminal? Matter of perspective.
Does the vaccine have some side effects?  Sure it does, it's on the CDC website.
Are unvaccinated people taking up hospital beds and using medical resources for weeks at a time denying those beds to folks who have uncovid related health issues. There are, the statistics don't lie.

I guess it's all in ones opinion what constitutes a crime against humanity.

[newoodguy78]

There's multiple crimes against humanity that have taken place.
Gain of function research that lead to this starting in the first place. 
Absolutely zero accountability or repercussions for those involved in it. 
Just a couple that sure seem to be facts. 

[Roxie]

Regarding the RFK Jr book, what I find alarming is the belief that you need to agree with an author's lifestyle and political stance in order to simply listen to another person's thoughts and how they formed their opinions. Being left or right isn't contagious. 

[melezefarmer]

Criminal? Matter of perspective.
Does the vaccine have some side effects?  Sure it does, it's on the CDC website.
Are unvaccinated people taking up hospital beds and using medical resources for weeks at a time denying those beds to folks who have uncovid related health issues. There are, the statistics don't lie.

I guess it's all in ones opinion what constitutes a crime against humanity.

If you refuse the vaccine but get sick for whatever reason (covid or non-covid related), can you still trust the judgement of the same doctors who are pushing for you to get the vaccine?

[Stephen1]

Criminal? Matter of perspective.
Does the vaccine have some side effects?  Sure it does, it's on the CDC website.
Are unvaccinated people taking up hospital beds and using medical resources for weeks at a time denying those beds to folks who have uncovid related health issues. There are, the statistics don't lie.

I guess it's all in ones opinion what constitutes a crime against humanity.

If you refuse the vaccine but get sick for whatever reason (covid or non-covid related), can you still trust the judgement of the same doctors who are pushing for you to get the vaccine?

Always a matter of perspective. Are there vaccinated people with Covid, in the hospital taking up medical resources and beds? Yes.
I am my own advocate for my own health. A DR has his opinion and the Dr down the road has his opinion, that is why for serious health problems a second and 3rd opinion are reccomended. That is why Dr.'s practise. As they get older and more experienced they have different thoughts on how to deal with different problems.
I am not to sure I trust the judgement of a person who is paid by the people I do not put a lot of faith into. 
Example - They had just started suspending the Astra zenaca vaccine in Europe. I listened to the morning news about that, then I hear an radio ad from Ontario Government telling me 'Any Vaccine is better than no Vaccine' , Then I get a phone call from my new Dr asking me to come in for the AZ Vaccine, I start asking some questions, her reply 'Any Vaccine is better than no Vaccine' no replys to my questions just that government mandate.
All that put my guard up and I started listening and researching what was really happening with Covid in this world problem.  Making my own decisions. 

[Southside]

My fully jabbed mother in law has been in the hospital, two actually, for a week now with sudden cardiac issues.  

New Brunswick has now made it legal for grocery store keepers to exclude those who don't have the jab.  

Australia has been forcefully taking people to "camps" after they test negative for the virus, just because they were "close to" someone who did test positive.  Google Darwin, Australia for videos.

Oregon has now made their mask mandates permanent, but tried to explain that the word permanent does not mean permanent.  

Oh - and Ole Joe got slapped upside the head again yesterday when his government contractor mandate was shot down in court.  

Two years ago anyone reading the above sentences would claim they were fiction, that's how far and fast we have fallen. 

[Mooseherder]

Please explain why the FDA asked a Judge to Grant it until the Year 2076 to fully release Vaccine Data? 
If that doesn't make you question what is happening you may want to circle back and look into that.

Then explain what is happening in Australia to me.  I just spent a few months in Maine where American Radio Station ads were blasting circuit breaker covid propaganda to New Brunswick residents.  The ads were paid for by the United Nations.  The radio spots were eerily similar messaging to 1940 Germany.  They softened the tone down some as the months went by but still held a firm grip on people's activities including a closed border.   While that was happening our southern border was well...

The treatment is worse than the Disease.

[HemlockKing]

"This work was strictly voluntary, but any animal who absented himself from it would have his rations reduced by half."
― George Orwell, Animal Farm

[SwampDonkey]

New Brunswick has now made it legal for grocery store keepers to exclude those who don't have the jab.  

Proof of vaccination can be required if a store has not space for the 2 meter distance spacing. Store owners and staff have a right to a safe work environment. Government staff do, and they've closed the doors to the public before. That being said, stores deliver and they also have folks that do up your groceries on site and you pick up at the curb.

[JJ]

This thread is off the hook.  was a good place for information, but now I wonder..
say_what

A question about these boosters.  The advice on local news is with J&J vaccination a booster is needed after 2 months.   They now say Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vacs can be mixed, but what about switching from J&J to mRNA?
My wife had the J&J last spring (~7 months ago), can/should she switch to Pfizer or Moderna?  Would this be one shot (booster) or would she need to reset with 2 shots, 2 weeks apart?

          JJ

[Paul_H]

JJ,
the thread is just fine, you are old enough to retain what you want and decide for yourself.

[Mooseherder]

There is no end to it.

"There’s not going to be an endpoint to this vaccination program..." â€" New Zealand PM Jacinda Ardern - YouTube

[SwampDonkey]

I do believe one shot boosters. We've always been able to mix vaccines here. I know some folks who got Astrazeneca first followed by Moderna and they are considered fully vaccinated. In Canada *they* are recommending a mRNA vaccine as a booster even if you had a 1 or 2 dose series vaccine initially. Might be different in the USA.

*they* = National Advisory Committee on Immunization

[Mooseherder]

The people who created this mess are also the ones telling you how to treat it.

[Southside]

Ask Gavin Newsome, Governor of California, nephew of Nancy Pelosi how mixing jabs worked out for him. 

The media dropped it like a hot potato but it put him out of commission for two weeks. 

[kantuckid]

Regarding the RFK Jr book, what I find alarming is the belief that you need to agree with an author's lifestyle and political stance in order to simply listen to another person's thoughts and how they formed their opinions. Being left or right isn't contagious.

I certainly don't need to read his/RFK jr's book. I've already (quite easily) developed my own bent toward (actually against!) Dr Fauci. Same for much else that's in the daily news. To become an informed person it's imperative to read various viewpoints, not necessarily all that effort requires a book, thank goodness!
No doubt I'm more "comfy" reading some stuff vs. others but my brains likes to learn.