Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[doctorb]

Maybe you're right!  It must be very hard to combine infection data from 68 countries, each with their own collection methods.  Makes for a real mix master of information, which is exactly what they got.

[Ianab]

One thing I noticed in the article was they used Israel as an example, and stated that with 60% of adults vaccinated, case numbers were still going up. That's actually to be expected, 1/2 the country still isn't protected. Children that aren't counted in that % can still catch and spread the virus, even if they usually have a mild case, and of course vaccinated folks can still catch the virus and pass it on, but at lower rates. So maybe that vaccination rate cuts the R number from 4 to 1.5, not good enough because cases still go up by 50% a week. 

So that was where NZ was when Delta got loose here. Vaccination rate was low, and cases built up really fast, prompting a lockdown to get things back under control. Numbers came down again, and  more people got vaccinated as the threat was now more immediate. There were more cases again as the lockdown was relaxed, but now Auckland region (which has seen most of the cases) is about 92% fully vaccinated. Most restrictions have been lifted, and the daily case numbers have still slowly been dropping. Transmission of the virus is still happening, but the R = less than one. 

What has changed between Delta variant first arriving and now? Vaccination rate increasing from ~60% to ~90% is really the only significant change. OK, you can also count going from Spring to Summer as a possible mitigating factor as well.  Fiji has done similar after being slammed with 1,000+ cases a day, they got 90%+ vaccinated, and cases have now fallen to 10 a day. 

Dr B is correct about directly comparing different countries, as we have all used different mitigation strategies, same as different States have done different things. So it gives a very large matrix of variables to try and analyse. But it's still worth looking at case / hospital and death numbers (or more importantly the changes) across different areas, and finding out what they are or are not doing.. 

Now of course Omicron is going to throw in a whole other variable, but at least it appears to be a more positive one. 

[kantuckid]

There was a proposed bill in Illinois to rescind health insurance and not insure folks who aren't jabbed.

You know, that insurance that is a "tax" so it's mandated you buy it.

No allowance for acquired immunity, medical or religious exemptions.  

What happens the day the definition of "fully vaccinated" changes? Keep rolling up your sleeve, no matter what.

Perfect example of the slippery slope.

Translate that thought to the several countries that have socialized medicine. 
Anytime we apply common sense to the subject of group insurance, there are many red flags that show up in the form of the multitudes who show little regard for their own well being. Here in the USA what with over 100,000 drug overdose deaths last year that easily comes to mind along with a large snack food aisles and several "isimims" that are popular. 
My 4th door question: Given how nasty a common cold can be, perhaps the covid vaccines will move us closer to a cure for the common cold?

[Southside]

There is a difference between having insurance, and having medical care. 

[peakbagger]

Got my booster today. New Hampshire is #1 for new cases in US and Hospitals are full. Eighty percent of folks in hospitals have not gotten a vaccine. The press is reporting that all the vaccine sites are booked up and the state is rushing to have big drive through events prior to the Christmas. There is a walk in clinic nearby, just show up and get the choice of shots. I am on crutches and I got ride to the walk in site.  When we got there, there were signs but just  a couple of cars in the parking lot. I headed inside and the place was empty except for a few workers. There is no line so I head to the sign in table and get my shot. Sure we are in a rural area but I was surprised. If my booster is like my first two I will feel crappy on Sunday and then hopefully I am good to go. Something wrong with this.

[Southside]

Heard on the radio this evening that a bunch of the local jab clinics will be closed before Christmas until after New Years. 

[Mooseherder]

There's a story over at Zerohedge about an innocent person locked up for 2 weeks if anyone is interested.

[mike_belben]

Yeah look realllll deep into zerohedge before you trust one word on it.  

"Colin lokey" should bring up some intetesting stuff. It is an influencer site. 

  

[Mooseherder]

Oh, quit it.

[doctorb]

Please discuss issues of personal freedom on the Restricted thread.  That is a political discussion.  Thank you.

[Mooseherder]

This is not political. 
It is a true story.  

[Peter Drouin]

In a paper in NH the hospitals are filling up un vax people. 6 a day [average] are dying. 140 last month. We have 35% un vax in NH.

Since Dec. 1 72% admitted patients with Covid-19 are un vax  86% of them are in intensive care.
They're taking up beds that other illnesses like heart attacks and strokes.
20% are under 40.
It's said un-vax is 14 times more likely to die
The heath system has halted. Like no hip replacement.
The docs are tided. Short on help too.

[Mooseherder]

Who controls that message.  Communists.
Wake Up!

[doctorb]

There is an active thread in the Restricted Section on this very topic at this very moment, and posters here are active participants of that thread.  The referenced Australian account is all about the government's actions toward a woman who was exposed to Covid, and has nothing to do with Health and Safety or Covid disease.  The infringement of personal freedoms that has occurred with the pandemic is a reasonable topic which deserves discussion, but it should not take place here.  Whether this incident is true as reported is not the litmus test as to whether a topic belongs here or in the Restricted Section.  This is most certainly a political issue, and, as requested previously, I would ask all to consider the nature of their post before deciding the appropriate place to post it.  

[doc henderson]

I DO NOT POST IN THE RESTRICTED SECTION.  lets talk about fact of this virus, and the health issues.  if someone talks about a Harvard study and or refers to an article about a Harvard study, those are two very different things.  Harvard does not need an intermediary. the purpose has been to twist the truth and stretch the meaning of the study.

[Southside]

INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY IS NOT A POLITICAL OR RESTRICTED THREAD MATTER.  THESE ARE FACTS AND THEY ARE RELATED TO COVID - AM I TYPING IN CAPS - YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT.  DOCTOR B YOU HAVE BEEN RESPECTED IN ALL OF THIS, RESPECT THE FACT THAT THERE ARE ABSOLUTE VIOLATIONS OF THE US CONSTITITION AND HUMAN RIGHTS AS A DIRECT RESULT OF GOVERNMENT REACTION TO THIS SITUATION.  YOU CAN CLOSE YOUR EYES ALL YOU WANT. 

AS I MENTIONED EARILER, RIGHT HERE IN VIRGINIA, IN MY COUNTY, WHERE WE ARE SOMETHING LIKE 30% BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE JAB RATE THE JAB CENTERS ARE CLOSING FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OVER THE HOLIDAYS - IF THIS IS SO CRITICAL, SO LIFE AND DEATH, THEN WHY WOULD THAT BE HAPPENING?  

THESE JAB FACILITIES WILL BE CLOSED FOR A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME THAT THE LOCAL DUMP.  THAT'S HOW CRITICAL THEY REALLY ARE. 

THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING, IT'S BEYOND TIME FOR FOLKS TO WAKE UP.  

[doctorb]

No need to shout.  I'm right here.  Your post is perfect example why these topics need to be separate.  It's not about me....or you.  It's not about suppressing information for the readership.  I'm not censoring anybody.  The Restricted Section was designed for such discussions.  It's the way the Forum has been run for years, and with good reason.  

[Paul_H]

It might be best to refrain from blame toward those that choose not to be vaccinated as being the problem in our countries,then we won't have to explain our reasons. The rest of the problems here will go away  

[Ricker]

So all this talk about individual rights but all would be fine here if some people didn't exercise their right to question what they see as a problem.  Mr. Pot meet Mrs. Kettle.  

At times in this thread the way some have spoken to Doc Henderson and DoctorB has been less than respectful.  But that's my opinion not a statistical fact, probably shouldn't have mentioned it.

[Gary_C]

Not only is this discussion misplaced as the doctors have said but also there is nothing to be gained from pointing the finger at each other over a less than effective vaccine.

[Peter Drouin]

Did I post in the wrong place?

[mike_belben]

gentleman, dont be divided. that is precisely the entire point of all these active measures. 

[mike_belben]

Did I post in the wrong place?

i just lost a big post too.  maybe we glitched each other out

[mike_belben]

or the google overlords are hard at work.   ;D

[Peter Drouin]

I just posted what I read in the paper is all. 
I don't care if some-one gets vax or not.
It's all in father's plain.