Dedicated Slabber

Kevin · March 08, 2002, 10:22:31 AM

Hey Frank, here`s a link for you ...
http://www.fosterssales.com/AlaskaninAction/alaskan_n_action.htm

Tom · March 08, 2002, 01:13:43 PM

Neat link, kevin.

I'de be looking to build a sprocket with a handle or something that would crawll along the log rather than pull that saw. Doesn't that get Tedious?

Kevin · March 08, 2002, 02:52:12 PM

Tom, you can rig up a system to pull it along but I haven`t tackled anything that large and probably never will!
I would opt for two saws on one bar for something that large if I was milling a few of them.
The other thing I would do is square the log into a cant.

Don P · March 09, 2002, 05:56:03 AM

Could a hydraulic motor/pump spin the chain on a long bar attached to the MD rails?
So, if I put a sprocket on my mandrel, and an 8' bar upright... :D

Frank_Pender · March 09, 2002, 06:16:49 AM

Don P., I am thinking of a way to attatch to the drive shaft for the edger blades rather than the main drive shaft. I would remove the bottom edger blade, as it is designed to do so anyway for the larger edger blade. I would then attatch a chain sprocked system that would extend in a horizontal direction to a guide/support bar for the other end to ride on. With this idea in mind you would have power up and down as well as moving through the log. Of course, you would have to remove the main blade and shroud when slabbing. I think it could work quite easily. I will have to get some of my engineer students to try and help me out with the idea. Moblile Manufactureing seems interested in the idea of development. It would be a terrific add-on for the whole system. All ideas are welcome. :P

Tillaway · March 09, 2002, 06:07:09 PM

Frank,

How about the saw motor out of a processor head or stroke delimber. It would have all the chain adjustments and sprocket set up. You would need a custom made bar drilled for the processor. Hmm... actually a bar out of one of those package saws that cross cuts a whole unit of lumber.

This could be fun. Hmmm......

Frank_Pender · March 09, 2002, 09:16:36 PM

Tilaway, you and I could be dangerious to this industry if we live very close together. :D I have been thinking about the same kind of idea, of using the lumber cutter. I am going to look into that concept a bit deeper. :PThe length of the bars available as well as the power systems that run them. I am going to take some serious measurements tomorrow on my hydraulic mill, and begin designing a fact-similie to what I would like to have happen, using the Mobile Dimension power system I already have. I am not all that aware of how a processer head works, so I will check with one of my ex-students that has one to get a close-up view for adaptability. :P " The longest journey always begins with the first step, Grasshopper."

Tillaway · March 10, 2002, 01:13:03 PM

Frank,

Look at that processor, I think you will like what you see. The ones I have seen use hydraulic fluid for the bar oil. That will greatly simplify construction. 8)

L. Wakefield · March 10, 2002, 04:57:01 PM

Boys, I'm not the one to advise you, and it sounds like fun and I wouldn't slow you down- but- as you roll on think about patents and stuff. If you come up with a killer great design, be sure to get someone in the know to protect your work from any possible litigation. I don't know how it works- I just know people have been screwed before and will be again. :P lw

timberbeast · March 11, 2002, 01:07:37 PM

Hey, Frank, how about a second MD (edger) driveshaft assembly cantilevered to the carriage. It could run off of the regular edger shaft, possibly by belt. I think for a change-over to regular three blade, you could just remove the belt(s) and unbolt the extra carriage mount and set it aside. That way, your entire outboard mount would travel with the carriage controls?? Couldn't find that photo, oh well, sounds like a new adventure is embarking! (pun bad, and intended).

Frank_Pender · March 11, 2002, 02:03:54 PM

Timber Beast, The idea of a second shaft sounds interesting. I will put that into the stew, also. I have been toying with the idea of 1. using the same edger shaft and removing the bottome edger blade and replacing it with an adaptive unit that could handle a chainsaw sprocket system bolted on in the same manner, 2. having a collar similar to the third edger blade that can be attatched between the, alrady existing top and bottom edger blades. I would remove the botttom edger blade of course when sawing, 3, then there is you idea. In all three I would remove the botom edger blade and the main blade as well as the shroud. I am planning to contack som machinest to look at the mill for addition ideas and or modifications of what we have come up with so far. Thanks for the imput. I will keep all here, informed of the progressions down the forest trail.

fencerowphil (Phil L.) · March 11, 2002, 03:31:04 PM

Hey Guys,
Hey Frank,
So, I've been gone a while. Yep, I do have to make a living.

I worked a few hours the other day to slab up a 28" by 9' Red Oak. It was more work to move and sticker than to cut. Free wood, left behind by the big loggers.

You have probably seen posts of mine from a few weeks ago about the set-up, namely a Stihl 090 with an Alaskan mill. I rigged up a set of accessories straight out of Will Malloff's book Chainsaw Lumbermaking: The angle-steel-edged guide plank, the winch system, the yoke system, using kerf wedges, etc. (Kevin needs the winch and yoke.) To make a long story short, if you take Malloof's ideas and add a plastic bottle for a water drip at the far end of the bar and adapt to modern times with rechargable drills and big deck screws (instead of a hand brace and lag bolts), you can sho' nuff cut some big stuff.

Frank Pender, the cost for my rig ran me about $1,600, plus my time to produce the accessories mentioned above. The dedicated slabbers by Peterson and Lucas run five to eight times as much money.
Phil L.
Gotta go play with my tax work. Bye!

Kevin · March 11, 2002, 03:38:52 PM

Phil, where`s the pictures?

Yokeless maybe but I got a wench.

Kevin · March 12, 2002, 04:22:37 AM

Here`s Ralphs story that goes with that link, he`s using low profile chain on his milling saw.
Maybe someone has an idea what species of tree this is?

An a quaintance stopped by and gave me a piece of this beautiful medium red
wood and said he knew where a 5 year old log
was I and I could have it. So I gaithered up my mill my 088 and and
accessories and whent out to bring home the prize.

   Now in general I'm pretty happy with my mill, it's performance and it's
ability to get the job done.
This log was so hard I could feel every cutter bouncing. I cranked up the
auxiliary oilier and smoke billowed
from around the bar as it inched it's way through. 90% of the saw dust
looked like sifted wheat, make that red wheat.
As I passed through the crotch small curls did appear. My milling partner,
Mark, and I could not believe how tough this 20" log was. Our first cut was
near the center of the log and lasted about 15 minutes, this log was only 6
feet long.
We stopped twice to readjust the chain. It was stretched considerably.
After the first cut I would of called it quits but the wood was, well it was
beautiful.
The section away from the crotch was straight and tight grained, and the way
it was milled it ended up being quarter sawn.
We cut right through the center of the limb that formed the crotch.
The part of the log that was on the limb side was nicely figured, a
woodworkers dream.

My question is what kind of wood is this stuff? We have a cherry tree in
the back yard and it's not cherry
the bark is different. It's not Redwood, I've milled a lot of that.

So what tree has red wood, is super hard when dried, grows on the west
coast.
The log came from a local creek next to a farmers field about a mile from
the nearest house so it may be a native tree.

There are 2 more logs where this came from if I want them. perhaps I can
get them resawn for a reasonable fee.

   Thanks All

   Ralph

Tom · March 12, 2002, 06:03:47 AM

I am confused by the red color but if he were here in N. Florida I would say that he had gotten a piece of Live Oak.

You don't suppose being submerged could have anything to do with the color, do you? I hear that California has a version of Live Oak.

Live Oak has highly ornamental figure in quartering, Crotch wood is unbelievable. Medullary rays are large and produce a quantity of "Tiger" wood. The grain is convaluted and tied together tighter than a gordian knot.

Want to smoke a blade? Cut Live Oak.

NaW....I know better than that. That is some kind of cedar. The grain and knots just look like it. the Eastern Red down here looks just like that but it is a Juniper. It will smoke a blade too. It's not really hard but it will dull a blade quickly and I expect to see smoke when I mill it.

ARKANSAWYER · March 12, 2002, 06:20:45 AM

Gordon,
With an Alaskan mill you have to put a 2x6 or so on top to start till you get a flat top. Then you remove it and the top of each slab is your guide. With a "slabber" like a Peterson it is suspended from the rails and it can cut down to is max setting in the first cut. Really twisted logs with lots of crotch are hard to get an Alaskan started in. Swingers are better for that. Like Frank I have been looking hard at one and just the other day bought a 52" 12' black walnut that is all crotches and twisted and useless for lumber but would make 10 great slabs worth a little coin.
ARKANSAWYER

Tom · March 12, 2002, 06:51:26 AM

Wecome to the Forestry Forum ARKANSAWYER. Glad to see you posting.

fencerowphil (Phil L.) · March 12, 2002, 10:11:27 AM

John's idea about adapting the Mobile D. for slabbing is a thought.
Peterson sells a slabbing attachment (not the dedicated slabber) to go right on their swing blade unit. The disadvantage of this "attachment", as opposed to the real McCoy, is a lack of chain speed, from what I understand. It must not provide a "gear box" to provide a better cutting speed for it. Of course, they provide that add-on attachment as a means for someone who already owns their swing blade to economically (albeit very slowly) cut some slabs. We have to keep in mind that the dedicated slabber, in contrast, has a twenty h.p. motor, geared to run the chain at an optimum speed for that monster 60" cut capacity. That's 2.5 times the power of my big Stihl 090 engine!

Using the same line of thinking, maybe you could watch a few extra runs of "Junk Yard Wars" on the learning channel and get it done!
Phil L.
P.S. During the experimentation, may I suggest a suit of medieval body armor, lined with Kevlar, as a protective measure. There is no doubt that the h.p. of a Mobile D. could break some chains!

Tillaway · March 12, 2002, 05:53:34 PM

QuoteMy question is what kind of wood is this stuff? We have a cherry tree in
the back yard and it's not cherry
the bark is different. It's not Redwood, I've milled a lot of that.

So what tree has red wood, is super hard when dried, grows on the west
coast.
The log came from a local creek next to a farmers field about a mile from
the nearest house so it may be a native tree.

Just what part of the state? My first guess is Pacific Madrone. With more info I could be pretty sure that it is.

Frank_Pender · March 12, 2002, 07:31:44 PM

Phil, that is an excellent idea on having some protective devices available when I start this experiment for the first time. Each of my mills is a 67 horse power VW engine. so, the sprocket off of the edger blade is the key if I decide to go in that direction. I have yet to get to the saw shop and discuss this with them as well as with the Mobile Dimension people. I also need the have a very stable gear box for the opposite end, as well as the support system to hold it in place. Ideas are always easy to talk about, but challenging to implement, be they concrete or abstract concepts.

Frank_Pender · March 13, 2002, 08:51:02 PM

Well, folks, I am going for the concept of attatching a chain sprocket to the bottom of the edger shaft. The Mobile people are helping some in this venture. My saw shop people are pretty sharp people also, and are working with me on the bar attatching and the non drive end of the bar. Hang in there with me, if you have any additional ideas or thoughts, please let me know. Thank you all so far for you sharing of ideas. :P :P 8) 8) 8)

Frank_Pender · March 14, 2002, 07:50:33 PM

I Ordered the sprocket system today for Bailey's that fits on the slabbing unit for the Lucas mill. They have beefed up the main sprocket as some of the earlier ones were not designed strong enough. I will be deciding tomorrow what length bar to get. I am looking at something over 60" as this size would limit me to something in the neighborhood of close to 50". :P

Don P · March 14, 2002, 08:10:52 PM

50" sure seems like enough, we use sawhorses and plywood tabletops for impromptu meals in houses while building and a 48" wide table is too wide for comfortable passing. Have you looked into PEG-olating the slabs? Does the sprocket get the feet per minute of the chain into chainsaw range?
I've had dogwood and alder both get a pink enzyme color after cutting...but I sure wouldn't call it red.

fencerowphil (Phil L.) · March 16, 2002, 03:19:16 PM

When Don P mentioned PEG, it reminded me of a problem I recently had, namely, finding PEG . I came out fine buying Borax and Boric Acid and Ethylene Glycol from an industrial chemical supply company (cuts the middle men and the small quantity price gouging).
They have had trouble finding the PEG. I think I asked for them to find it in "flake" form. Did I send them on a wild goose chase? Somewhere I had gotten the impression that this was the form it came in for bulk use/ industrial use.
I guess the suitability of PEG use might depend upon the type finish the end-user of a slab might plan to use, but I have been looking into the costs involved for a "hot PEG tank" to treat slabs. Not finding a bulk supplier of PEG has temporarily short-circuited the research.
Phil L.

Frank_Pender · March 16, 2002, 05:43:19 PM

Don P. and Phil L., please help me learn what you are speaking of, when you mention PEG. I do not recall what that acronim is all about. :P I must me having one of those senior moments. :'( I will try the internet system to learn also. However, please do let me know what that material is all about. Thank You. ;)