fuel mix for different name brand saws

[421Altered]

Hello everyone,  I have volunteered with a church chainsaw team.  All of my chain saw experience is with Stihl O series saws.  My question is do the Stihl MS series saws and/or the other name brand chain saws use the same ratio oil mix?  Will a orange machine run just as well on Stihl mix oil?  I don't know so I'm asking before I unintentionally do damage to someone else's saw.  Thanks.

[Pine Ridge]

Mix up a batch at 40:1 and it will be fine in all of them.

[Wood Shed]

I have been running saws since the mid seventies while living on a tree farm as a hobby and have worn out some good saws mostly Stihl.  Most modern saws are running a 50:1 ratio on the fuel.  Only my 031AV bought new in 1978 called for 40:1 as I remember.  Usually buy a manufacturers brand of two cycle oil and  buy alcohol free gas 90 or greater octane.  While your at it get yourself some vegetable oil (cheap) from SAM's or Cosco to use for bar oil.  Your wife will wonder why you do not smell like chain saw when you get home and the saws will like it too.  JMHO and  I am sure others will give you theirs.

 

[Rebarb]

I'm not aware of any newer brand name saw that doesn't call for 50:1 and yes you can use Sthil mix in an Husqvarna, Echo, makita Dolmar and so on.

I personally use a synthetic oil with non ethanol fuel at 40:1 but 50:1 won't kill a HO saw.

Can't find Octane values above 87 locally so throw in a bottle of true fuel to the mix.

[421Altered]

Rebarb, What is true fuel?  I can only get 87 octane ethanol free here, so, I need some of that.
Wood shed, Is that the same vegetable oil that one uses for cooking?  My wife really doesn't care for the chain saw cologne that I've been using for years, so, I need to change my cologne!!
Been There, I tried to reply to your pm, but, I'm so computer challenged, I couldn't figure out how.  Anyway, thanks for the insight on this subject, something to consider.

[421Altered]

Rebarb, I googled and found out what  true fuel is.

[lxskllr]

Yea, canola cooking oil. ~$4/g at walmart. I use it in the winter due to better flow. I've read you can get buildup with it, and should run petrol every so often. Dunno. I run petrol in the summer since it's thicker, and I guess that takes care of deposits? I don't have any anyway.

[Wood Shed]

421Altered,

lxskllr has it pretty well covered and yes you will see more build up in your saw especially in cold weather.  Started using it a couple years ago after reading some discussion here from guys who are loggers out west and do it for a living.  

[Al_Smith]

 :DBar and chain oil is  another can that's all dented up from being kicked down the road .I use peanut oil to fry hamburgers but I don't think it would be a  good chain oil .On the other hand it's doubtful high tack chain oil would be very tasty in a cast iron skillet frying up pork chops and nicely  browned fried potatoes  .What ever floats your boat,lays your ears back ,trips your trigger . 8)

[Old Greenhorn]

While your at it get yourself some vegetable oil (cheap) from SAM's or Cosco to use for bar oil.  Your wife will wonder why you do not smell like chain saw when you get home and the saws will like it too.  

Just a word of caution on the veggy oil. Around here it is part of logging contracts on watershed lands that they MUST use veggy oil in their saws (and the 'Fish cops' come and check). The mechanics in the local saw hops are telling me they make a lot of money fixing and cleaning the oiler circuits on these saws regularly because they clog up. So keep an eye on it when you use that stuff. If you want to do a little experiment to see what is happening, take a good clean sharpening stone and soak it with veggy oil then use it to hone some tools and leave it on the bench. After a time it will turn to a thick brown layer that clogs the pores of the stone and is very hard to clean out. I ruined a good stone that way many years ago.
 SO I am not saying 'don't do it', I am just suggesting you keep and eye on it when you do. ALso it's probably a good idea not to leave that stuff sitting in the saw too long. YMMV and to each his/her own.

[Al_Smith]

I suppose I could fan the flames and say most likely 98 % of people on forums are not loggers .This oil thing has taken on the idea a tiny bit of oil is like the wreck of the Exon Valdez .Which it's not .Fact I doubt seriously if you look at 5-10 acre clear cuts on the western  slopes where it's done you see an oil slick running down the hill .
Exactly what is petroleum  oil ?They tell me it came from decaying plants that over time has turned into oil just like coal turns into coal which is just a different type of hydra carbon .
So in small doses it would make sense the oil in time especially small amounts would dissipate to the point eventually it would almost impossible to even detect .If you don't believe it find an old abandoned   well and see how oily the soil is .For the most part it won't be .Where did all the oil go ?

[lxskllr]

Yea, I'm dubious regarding the environmental effects of bar oil. A claim might be made if everyone was running used motor oil. That has extra toxins, and will kill plant life for a long time going forward, at least in ~1qt quantities at a time. New oil? I'd have to see some data...

[Al_Smith]

That old crankcase oil is another bone of contention .My word they try to use it for everything including bar oil .I save it ,store in a 50 gallon drum and when it's full my buddy gets it and drops off another drum .He has a black oil burner  heats a 60 by 95 foot shop with .Inside that shop BTW  are some of nicest Corvettes and Cameros in the country. Even a stingy old coot like myself has to draw the line on some things and  old black crankcase oil  is one of them .

[Jeff]

I came onto the logging scene in the late 70s. My first morning in the woods, the skidder operator dropped his blade and dozed a hole, then he drove over it and drained the oil out of the Detroit into it, changed the oil and fuel filters and threw them into the hole, buttoned things up on the skidder then back bladed the hole shut. Even as a wet behind the ears kid I found that just wrong, but learned it was pretty common place for the times. Things have changed greatly over the years

[Al_Smith]

Things like that were common practice some time ago .Guilty myself but have changed my thinking since .If you know better you should do better .

[Mad Professor]

To be on safe side I'd use a quality oil and non-E10 premium for mix.

40:1 actually will run leaner than 50:1 , so your call there. 

Concerning bio-oil for the chain. Greenhorn is spot on.

I used stihl bio-oil in my 066/CSM so I could use the sawdust as mulch in my orchard.  DO NOT, I REPEAT DON'T, leave it sitting in a saw and clean any debris in clutch area/bar ASAP.  Run some regular bar oil through the saw to flush it out.

The crap will polymerize into a hard to remove solid that even a screwdriver has a tough time with.  It takes the paint off with it!!!  It even froze up a chain.  Nothing would dissolve it: kerosene/diesel, acetone, gasoline, engine cleaner.........

[Al_Smith]

40:1 actually will run leaner than 50:1 , so your call there.  

.

That can has been kicked down the road also until there isn't much left of it .Some contend the oil higher  ratio will lean out the fuel mixture  while some say it's the ratio of fuel to air .
Using the former meaning 50 to 1 being a richer mixture then by sheer logic 80 to 1 would be better soon leading to 100 to 1.I won't even argue it just be content with my old timey 32 to 1 and cross my fingers I don't cook a cylinder .How have I been so lucky for so many years ?---the good old oil wars have once again risen out of the ashes much akin to the phoenix . :D

[ZeroJunk]

I don't see any thing wrong with doing what the engineers who design the saws tell you to do.

Caveat being that some of the old saws were built when plain motor oil was commonly used and even the chainsaw oil was poor by today's standards.

What I normally run in to is no oil, rather than 32, or 40, or 50 to 1 or whatever causing a problem.

I have been running 50 to 1 in my old Lawn Boy 2 cycle mowers forever that call for 32 to 1.   Pretty much everything on it has fallen apart except the engine.

[Pine Ridge]

My reply for 40:1 was to cover "everyones " chainsaw, it could be run in whatever brand of saw they have. I mix my own with 91 octane ethanol free gas. 

[sawguy21]

I run 50:1 in all my saws, even the old McCulloch and Homelites, but they see very little use. I know some manufacturers say 50:1 using their oil, 40:1 using the competitions brand x, then say see, we told you to use ours for best performance. 421Altered, you mention 87 octane ethanol free. Where do you get that? Here  it has the most ethanol, the 91 octane premium has the least.

[K-Guy]

@sawguy21 

Here in Maine and some other states you can get gas that isn't diluted with ethanol at some gas stations.

[421Altered]

Sawguy,  We have a new walmart gas station that sells 87 octane ethanol free gas.  They also sell 87 octane non etanol free, along with the other gas and diesel. Good thing about it is it actually has it's own hose and nozzle.

[trapper]

That is why I buy at kwik trip here ethanol free premium and a separate  hose for each grade.

[scsmith42]

@sawguy21

Here in Maine and some other states you can get gas that isn't diluted with ethanol at some gas stations.

You can almost always find ethanol free gas at a marina or near a large lake.

[Fishnuts2]

I've run 100-1 all the way to 32-1 in my equipment over the years, but I'd never use someone else's mix when I'm at a church cutting event.  I bring my own, and say No Thanks to the rest.  Most of my friends aren't that fussy when mixing fuel.

[Thomas Lilli]

I'm running 50:1 on everything two stroke. The highest octane I can find and add octane boost. For mix oil I run Motul 800 2T factory line. Also put engine stabilizer for the ethanol. No problems. My builder swears by that mix and he's got millions of board feet behind him. 

[Al_Smith]

There's been a lot of conversation regarding octane ratings of gasoline .Which BTW is only a rating because actual isooctane has not been part of gasoline in decades .
Some think you have to use higher octane ratings in chainsaws which in fact it really doesn't make that much difference .Regular gasoline at 87 O-rating is good enough and if you read the manuals is actually recommended .However like most things whatever is used it's just a preference more than anything .

Having a bit of an ornery streak in me I like to flame the flames on oil ratios and gasoline requirements .On the other hand they don't run at all on kerosene and 90Wt gear oil .However  that mixture might not be a bad combination for chain oil .Probably a better option than Rachel Rays' extra virgin olive oil < that would open up another bone of contention . 8)

[SteveBody]

I run 50:1 in all my saws, even the old McCulloch and Homelites, but they see very little use. I know some manufacturers say 50:1 using their oil, 40:1 using the competitions brand x, then say see, we told you to use ours for best performance. 421Altered, you mention 87 octane ethanol free. Where do you get that? Here  it has the most ethanol, the 91 octane premium has the least.

I do a lot of reading and not much posting here.  In fact this is my first post.  I can tell that you know a lot about engines but my question is has there ever been a chainsaw engine that was harmed by using 40:1 mix instead of the recommended 50:1?  I am an old refrigeration mechanic with over 40 years experience rebuilding compressors up to 50 tons and trying to learn more about 2 cycle engines.  IMHO that 50:1 mix was to appease the environmental regulators for emissions standards.  So in short, can you harm a small engine by using 40:1 mix with a high grade oil like Stihl synthetic?

[sawguy21]

Welcome to the FF, grab a coffee and pull up a chair. You won't hurt a thing going to 40:1, many operators do it. If you feel better it's fine but keep an eye on the spark arrestor screen, it may plug up sooner. I saw that happen with a Stihl many years ago, at the time the factory recommended 24:1. The saw came in with hard starting issues and would not rev up. I pulled it over once and knew what the problem was. The fallers boss was supplying the fuel and mixing heavy to accomodate the Macs and Homelites some were still using. Told you it was a long time ago.

[SteveBody]

Welcome to the FF, grab a coffee and pull up a chair. You won't hurt a thing going to 40:1, many operators do it. If you feel better it's fine but keep an eye on the spark arrestor screen, it may plug up sooner. I saw that happen with a Stihl many years ago, at the time the factory recommended 24:1. The saw came in with hard starting issues and would not rev up. I pulled it over once and knew what the problem was. The fallers boss was supplying the fuel and mixing heavy to accomodate the Macs and Homelites some were still using. Told you it was a long time ago.

Thanks for the info.  IMHO, oil is cheap compared to engines and down time.