Many thanks to FF members who helped me "identify" my new-to-me mill I bought from eBay.
I thought I was an educated (enough) miller when I bought this pile of steel for a chunk of change knowing I needed more from a mill than my Norwood Mark IV. I have a lot of lumber to cut for my project (http://tomboysawyer.com), and that 13hp Honda on the old Norwood was never going to get the job done in time.
So I bought this mill which came with a lot of hydraulics - turner, loader, clamping, drive (up/down, along rail). It was a monorail mill and I asked the eBay seller if it was a Woodmizer and he said "yes." Looks like a bit of steel in the rail and frame and some of the sawhead are Woodmizer parts. The rest was, well, homemade. The hydraulics on this machine rock. I love the fact I have a separate motor for the carriage hydraulics instead of electric pumps. I really like the length of the mill (17' 6" log length). There's a lot about the mill I think is better than a comparable size Woodmizer - its beefier. I don't have to have long lengths of stuff following my saw head.
But when I started to cut stuff, I realized what trouble I had. The monorail was pieced together and, not suprisingly, it was not straight.
A 1/8" difference (dive of the sawhead compared to the bunks) isn't much of deal, but rotate that around a cant and 1/4" throws my lumber out of tollerance for our structure designs. I could cut 10' lengths without trouble, but longer than that and I was getting skinny ends.
And so, Tom Boy Sawyer (that's me) and her hubby (MJ) decided to rebuild the mill. I've blogged about it, but I felt I owed it to the FF folks to record the work here. Don't see much about folks building monorail mills (and I now know why). I like the monorail. It is a fantastic system. But it ain't easy. Hopefully we now know enough about milling and building a mill that this information will be helpful.
We felt we had some good bones to start with. But we knew we needed to replace the monorail (something Woodmizer folks told us was not worth it) and since we were doing that, we wanted to make a couple other changes. Those changes involved a relocation of the axle (further forward to reduce tongue weight on the trailer and narrower to make the sawyer's path safer), additional cross bracing, and relocating the bunks so we had more support for a longer length. We also added more cant back stays and we will be upgrading the clamp.
In a previous thread I have full pictures of the mill with the saw head. The saw head is going to be on tomorrow and I'll try to get pictures posted of the completed mill.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/fullyequpped.jpg)
Here's the carriage sitting in our driveway. There's a 10hp Tecumseh near the tongue (forward) which runs the carriage hydraulics (clamp, loaders, turner, toe board). The toe board and the loaders are on the same valve circuit. It's interesting, but it works. We had to cut all the stuff that was welded to the monorail off the monorail. We also had to unbolt anything that had been bolted to it. All reattachments are by welding (I know folks here have advised against that - but we weren't building fresh).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/railmaterials.jpg)
The raw materials for our new monorail. The 1" cold rolled steel came in 20' lengths, so we decided to use that as our new stretch of steel. We cut off the section of the old monorail that mounted the hydraulic valve box and pintle hitch. That will be welded back on to the new monorail. We didn't want seams in our new monorail. We ordered a 4"x8"x20' length of stock for the new monorail. This is thicker stock than Woodmizers or the original mill we had. I think it is 3/8" stock. The 4x8 weighs 390 lbs. all by itself. The trucker who delivered it was smaller than me. He didn't seem too thrilled about carrying it off the truck by hand, but the two of us managed.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/railstrongback.jpg)
We bought pipe clamps (which we'll reuse later in installing our cherry flooring in the house. These were a northern tool
Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company purchase at about $11 a piece. They don't require threaded pipe. The clamps (for now) are on 2' lengths of 1" pipe. We have some smaller Pony clamps in this system too. This strongback elevated the new monorail and clamped the two 1" cold rolled lengths "parallel" to eachother.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/railsetup.jpg)
Another view of the strongback/monorail setup.
MJ (aka "hubby") welds up the cold rolled stock to the 4x8. I had marked every 4" for him for his welds.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/newrail.jpg)
After the first side of both lengths were welded we flipped it over. We put the clamps back on to keep the 1" stock as close to true as possible. On a monorail, the 4x8 stock inbetween doesn't matter except that it keeps the two pieces of 1" rolled stock 8" apart.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/railwelds.jpg)
All the welding on 1/4 of the 4x8 stock caused it to bow. Frankly, the bowing doesn't affect the trueness of a cantilevered head. However, it does affect the width of the mill. The old monorail was also warped in the opposite direction (probably from bad welding) besides being off in other directions. We did an amount of cold pressing on the new monorail to try to straighten it with a floor jack and our house (the carrier beam in our garage), but we still had an inch of deflection in the new monorail.
So...
We used the old monorail as a spring with 2x4 spacers at either end and a chain fall in the middle, the new monorail is true in all three dimensions.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/stripped.jpg)
Here MJ is welding the main bunks and cross members to the new monorail, but you can see the length of new and old rails.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/springoff.jpg)
And a view to show just exactly how bowed the old monorail was. The previous mill builders had just built to the bow of the old monorail. It is difficult to see just how much off this rail is in other directions, but I'm sure the FF readers can imagine...
And, taking a step back:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/railoff.jpg)
Here's the mill with the old monorail off and pretty much completely stripped down - except we did take this old axle off and are going to install a new axle - smaller wheels, further forward.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/strippingrail.jpg)
A view of the mill with the pieces getting stripped.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/tbsgrinding.jpg)
I didn't know MJ was taking this picture, but this is me using the grinder to remove the engine mount for the carriage hydraulics.
You might notice MJ welding in earlier pictures in only shorts. DO NOT TRY THAT AT HOME! He got some really bad sunburn. So all he could really do was anything in a chair and take pictures for the next two weeks.
(As a note, this past weekend I caught my pants on fire using the grinder. My burn isn't as bad as his, but I'm really tired of working on this mill and want to get back to working with wood.)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/xbracing.jpg)
We've added a whole bunch of cross bracing to the mill. This is keeping the new monorail straight and true and increasing the working load of the mill.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/cuttingplate.jpg)
Our big purchase at the Northeast Forestry Products show was this metal cutting circular saw. I have found Tractor Supply carries blades for it. It cuts through 1/2" (technically it is supposed to only cut up to 1/4") metal with the cleanest of cuts. If you're installing standing seam roofing or - in the case of our barn - custom gusset plates, this puppy is an invaluable tool. I ruined our original blade trying to cut old welds too quickly.
The carriage is nearly complete. We've relocated a few bunks to distribute them more evenly and over a longer distance (we'll have nearly 13' of supported length) and to add backstops to cants (cut down to 1"). Then the saw head goes on and she gets all new "John Deere Green) paint.
Not sure why I just used "she". I'd been calling the mill "Woody" since I bought it on eBay, but the new mill is being christened "Buzz" (both from Toy Story). So a green/purple/white paint scheme is going on. The monorail is getting painted so I can quickly judge the size logs on the mill.
More story and pics to come.
Green, purple and white! You've made my day. :D
Actually, I've been trying to get someone to paint their mill chartreuse, lavender and green for years. 8) :D :D
The first thing I noticed was him welding in shorts!!! 'BET HE WON'T DO THAT AGAIN!!! (Nor me either)
Thought at first I was my eyes might be getting severe cataracts of a sudden. But, nope. Sure enough, welding in high-water britches. OUCH!! :D
Reminded me of why I quit welding barefooted.
Quite a project, indeed. 8)
Great project!
Thanks for taking time to post the pics of your progress also. Pictures do speak volumns and it looks like you have had your hands full with the retrofit of the monorail. I'm sure others that are contemplating extending their beds or replacing their rails will pay close attention too :)
Quote from: Tom on August 01, 2006, 12:37:19 PM
Green, purple and white! You've made my day. :D
Actually, I've been trying to get someone to paint their mill chartreuse, lavender and green for years. 8) :D :D
Chartreuse, eh?
The color is nearly as vile as the liquor it is named after.
Green and lavendar. No problem. Just like Buzz Lightyear.
"To dimensional lumber and beyond."
I'll get pics of the color soon. I have some paint on it now, but I'm not happy. I've got huge chunks of green, white and "lavendar" along the top of the monorail so my "loader" can center logs for me. Figured painting could be practical as well as pretty.
Quote from: tomboysawyer on August 01, 2006, 12:11:45 PM
As a note, this past weekend I caught my pants on fire using the grinder.
I once caught my shirt on fire with sparks from an angle grinder. It was a hot day which suddenly felt hotter. I learned to wear my welding apron when grinding.
Looks like a great project. It's nice to have the tools and knowhow to work in both wood and steel.
JKJ
Quote from: jkj on August 01, 2006, 04:13:49 PM
I once caught my shirt on fire with sparks from an angle grinder. It was a hot day which suddenly felt hotter. I learned to wear my welding apron when grinding.
That's exactly how it happened! I was grinding a bunk bracket and my leg felt warm. Then it felt warmer. Then it started to be warm beyond bearable and I looked down to see flames. Then I used one hand to keep holding the grinder while I pressed the flames into my leg with my free hand to put out the fire. My welding friends tell me you learn to use the "shake" method to put things out since there's a good chance the hot piece of metal is still there to burn your hand too - but the flames were above my knee. That would have been some shakin'! Fortunately, my programming hands didn't get burnt.
Hubby says I could go buy some leather welding/chainsaw chaps. Yeah. It's in the 90's here. I can't see me wearing them faithfully. Apron sounds good... would probably be good for a chain chap on the mill too. Then I could keep light on the clothing when milling. Take it I could get that at my local welding supplier?
I say, if I have to do much more metal work this thing's hitting eBay and I'm buying a new mill. Me and my holey Carhartts just want to make lumber. I'll make payments if I have to.
Well, It looks like you got your work cut out for you. But it also looks like you know what you are doing. Good luck and thanks for keeping us posted.
You might of mentioned this before but why are you cutting lumber? For a building project or to sell?
Quote from: oakiemac on August 01, 2006, 04:54:02 PM
You might of mentioned this before but why are you cutting lumber? For a building project or to sell?
Cutting lumber for self - three structures on 10 acres.
30'x50' barn (nearly finished cutting on old Norwood) from larger timber EWP. I'm standing on one of my stacks of barn timbers in my picture there. About 11,000 bf of EWP - 8,000 of which is cut.
16'x20' Studio with basement
haven't made this lumber schedule yet
1.5 story house with walkout basement - can't remember dimensions.
13,000 bf of cherry and ash plus trim, siding...
House will be post and beam - mostly Ash with 1.5" T&G Black Cherry flooring, maple trim, oak stairs.
Studio will be whatevers left over. I've got some poplar to chew up, oak, maple...
I gotta lotta wood. 9 of the 10 acres - 8 of those hardwood. Wanted to mill it instead of sell and buy. Found I really liked doing the milling with the Norwood even though hubby grumbles about the timeframe. Stepped up to heftier mill...
And the rest is metal working history.
Sounds like a really neat project. My dream is to build a post and beam barn and house some day. I think they look better and are less maintenance then the log homes.
It is a real joy to use timber from your own land to build things out of. I havent built a house yet but I have made little things like shelves and book cases.
Great pictures/story line; I too immediately noticed the "welding in short pants". When I was farming.......and before going no-til..........there was always something to be welded. Kept a half-55 gallon drum of water near the welder to quench hot metal as needed. Had my foot/boot in there many-a-time because pants legs on fire or hot slag in my boot.
I learned to button the top button on my shirt while welding too. Too many times I've had splatter trying to cook my Adam's apple!
Looks like you're making great progress. Keep up the good work.
Thank-you for the pictures and the great story.Looks like a BIG project.Looking forward to seeing the first board come off Buzz.
Lessons learned....never weld while wearing shorts.....never fry bacon in the nude.....
Another lesson, Never eat bacon fryed by jrokusek ;)
:D :D :D
One time last winter I was welding some busted up stuff for my brother (who can't weld). He was watching me via another helmet when all of a sudden he started hollering and jumping around like some mad man!!! He was screaming "I'm on fire, I'm on fire"!! Some of the slag had caught his pant leg on fire and he sure did some kind of jig!! Fortunately, we got his "fire" put out and had a tremendous laugh about it later! It was SO funny! It was exactly like the time when we were kids when a lizard ran up his pant leg. He swears to this day that that lizard had a "meal" while he was up there! Funny stuff!!!
Ever notice that most welders have high pain tolerances and loads of burn scars on the arms?
Still remember when I was a kid and my Dad was cutting a hole in a pickup bumper with an arc welder. He would get a spot liquified and then use the slag hammer to "splash" it out. Splashed a nice big chunk onto the back of his hand and it just kind of sat there and sizzled in. I welded a lot as a kid and still remember, even with gloves and long sleeves, all the little scabs up and down the arms.
Lots of things will burn while welding [don't ask how I know] A book of matches in your pocket, your skin from just a tee shirt, more skin from no shirt, the fuzzy places on Levis just before they rip, your foot after the Levis ripped and the slag went down into your boot, the paper towels on the bench, sleve on a field jacket that was all frayed -
hello my dad was awelder for 40 yrs finally retired he sad I always got burned but never a tan. He also has a beard about as long as welding face dont get burn as much and he also said never tuck your shirt in you cant get it untuck fast enough when a spark is going down all the way
Nice project you have going on you be milling soon
Tennis shoes burn just about as fast as you can get outta them. You can't see the interior carpet burning in a car through the helmet while welding the seat back, but it sure smells funky :D. Thanks for the pics, you sure got projects lined up!
Quote from: Don P on August 02, 2006, 10:02:43 PM
You can't see the interior carpet burning in a car through the helmet while welding the seat back, but it sure smells funky :D.
I worked in the automotive industry for 13 years - mostly dealerships, then a national auto glass company (before I build their web site in the 90's and the rest is history).
My years in the service deparments provide the most colorful stories - including the one where the tech had trouble removing a transmission mount, used torches, could smell the carpet burning and, while the car was still on the lift, opened the door to inspect and the thing just went right up in flames. Oxygen - fire - bad.
So, a couple years later, when I had my Jeep Wrangler (our second of three) in the shop for a catalytic converter replacement (because the old one kept plugging and it wasn't a faulty converter) and some diagnosis which went beyond our electronics and the service advisor said to me "I need to show you your car" when I showed up to check its status. Two things came to mind. I got it on the second:
"You dropped my Jeep off the lift?"
"No"
"You set my car on fire?"
"Uh, yeah. How'd you know?"
Duh. I know what my car looks like. You only need to show it to me if it looks different than the image I had of it when I left it.
Been round that block a few too many times. It really schtinks to have to tell a customer you made the automotive situation worse than when they brought you their car.
This is why I've learned to fix my own stuff. I'm always upset after paying my hard earned dollars to get a lower quality repair than I could do myself. Like the time I paid for an alignment and hubby went to check the torque on the ball joints only to find it had no cotter pins in the nuts. Called the owner of the shop - he's in my rotary club.
"Tech said he put them in. Someone must have stolen the cotter pins."
Common'. That's insulting. I leave the keys in the truck. Why would they take only the cotter pins?
Buzz's carraige is now completely green - except for some white and lavendar striping. Thunderstorms prevented getting the head back on the mill. I'll get to that tomorrow and some more pictures early next week.
Nice work on the mill. I can appreciate the homesteader attitude. -did the same thing. House is done. Barns are next.
I worked my way through college in a scrap yard. I've been burnt just about everywhere one could imagine. -The best thing was they had those cheap uniform pants that were some kind of synthetic material. Looked like blue jeans, but wore like cardboard. I think they were rated at 120 degree flash point.
Been burnt by the welder a time or two, but smarter with age. Worse one was my retinas, and woke up at 2 a.m., and thought a hot log chain was in the back of my head.
Let us know when it's sawin'.
Joe
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/tirebrake.jpg)
I took a bunch more pictures of the construction process and will probably blog about it eventually.
Relocated support posts, modified a couple things. I had bought some leather from my local shoe manufacturer, but it stretched too much. We had a couple tires kicking around and this is my new band brake. It works awesome.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/completebuzz1.jpg)
This is me (Tom Boy Sawyer) cutting a 4x4x14 piece of Ash. It was really nice to have the mill cut straight for the full length. Small board, but sweet cutting.
Made me wonder how swingers deal with tension in hardwoods...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13708/completebuzz.jpg)
And me cutting up a 15" diameter (about 12' long) EWP.
I should probably get a picture showing my lavendar stripes. I painted the rail so that you could quickly read the length of a log with white a purple stripes.
Anyway, I'm happy now. Making lumber and sawdust.
That looks really great. I'll be happy if my mill turns out to be somewhere even close to that good.
:)
Quote from: JimY on August 05, 2006, 03:29:38 PM
That looks really great. I'll be happy if my mill turns out to be somewhere even close to that good.
:)
Whatchya building for a mill?
Wow tbs! That's pretty cool.............da green machine - kinda does lool like Frankenmizer- careful not to loose it in the woods!
The mill is looking greatt!!
I look forward to the reports of it's production abilities.
MJ must've done a good job on the welding to get it back together so quickly.
The tire for a brake is a good Idea. I never had thought of doing that. I did think of using a piece of flat-belt. It worked good too, but, it's a lot harder to get hold of than an old tire. :D
Quote from: Tom on August 06, 2006, 04:03:01 PM
The tire for a brake is a good Idea. I never had thought of doing that. I did think of using a piece of flat-belt. It worked good too, but, it's a lot harder to get hold of than an old tire. :D
I think its the redneck in us - when you need something, you look around to see what you can canabalize from the trash heap. Since we had just taken that old axle, tires, and wheels off the machine, I looked at the tires and thought... hmmm... sawzall... tire... sticky rubber stuff... metal reinforcement. That'd make a good band brake. I had saved some tires from my truck for the same purpose (popped one on a small stump and the brand has changed styles), but this one was worn good.
I was gonna go to WalMart and buy a weight lifting belt as someone had recommended. But I have lots of spares should this ever go. Stops that bad instantly. Holds good. I did have to scrounge for longer bolts to clamp the bottom in.
Quote from: Tom on August 06, 2006, 04:03:01 PM
I look forward to the reports of it's production abilities.
In four hours I did 300 bf of EWP cut from a variety of small stuff. A lot of 2/4 x 4" siding, 3/4 x 6", 2"x4", 2"x6" and a few 4x6.
For me, that was my third best day of milling ever. The two best days were many more hours on the Norwood with hubby tailing.
I know that's not smokin' production numbers, but since I can do it alone, it is very convenient. Cuts are great - no waves, no discrepancies. Not breaking my back turning and clamping. So I have to tail and move my slabwood about 25' from the mill. I have a trailer for my ATV for making offloading faster now, but I'm coming to the end of my pine for a while.
Never could figure how people could to advertised numbers. But then I've got muddy stuff averaging 9" in diameter for that work.
Quantity of production means nothing if the lumber is trash. That you have good lumber is the sign of a good job. 300 feet of miscellaneous sizes from small logs is nothing to be concerned about either. I've had days with a bigger mill when I didn't do that good.
Your priorities are in order. Make good product first. Brag about how much, later. :D
If it is cutting straight andd true, y'all must have done a good job putting her together.
I'll second the miscellaneous sizes bit. I have cut 1600bf in a day by myself when I had a pile of good sized straight logs and an order for as many 2x6 as I could cut, but when I have a list of 20 different sizes of boards to get out of a bunch of odd sized logs, the production rate goes down drastically. Gets more interesting, though. :D