Anyone else have any trouble sawing ash? I went through two blades with about 4 cuts per blade and it was all over the place.
I sawn "fresh cut" Ash with no problems.
Really had to keep the water going in order to slow up the pitch build-up!
I would think that if the Ash has been cut long enough to start drying, it would be a little more difficult to saw.
What hook angle are you using? What brand bands?
Typically when sawing hardwoods, I use 4 degree bands and havent had to use much water. I mainly use the water to maintain band temperature so the band tension doesnt increase or decrease too much. Depending on the quality and size of the logs, 4 degree bands will produce about 500-800 bf of lumber per band.
if the logs have laid around for a while, I will use more water but then I also change the band more frequently.
Thanks!
NMFP 8)
Help me out! I've only been doing this for a couple of weeks and I'm not sure what the angle is. I bought my blades from Norwood when I bought the mill. What kind of blades do you use?
Lots of water and a 4* hook, I'd guess Norwood sent you 10* hook blades. Steve
I would guess that the blades they sent are 10 degree as well. 10 degree is pretty common industry wide and in general covers a wide range of applications but not all applications. For example, I buy my bands at 10 degree, run them sawing hemlock, poplar and spruce, then i sharpen them to 7 degree which is what i use as my general purpose band. I leave 4 degree for all hardwoods and frozen pine and hemlock. So yes, I have 3 options available to me. 10, 7 & 4 degree. All wood mizer bands. I have tried a few others over the years but nothing works Like WoodMizer bands.
What mill do you have and what size bands are you running? I would assume 1.25" wide by .042" or .045" thickness? Where are you located?
Thanks!
NMFP
I've been sawing ash logged in January. I'm running 10° WM bands. It does pitch up the blade pretty good, so I turn the lube up. When I run into trouble sawing the hard, hardwoods, like ash, white oak and locust, I'll switch to a 4° band.
NMFP, you are correct, I use 1.25"x.042" blade. I'm using a Norwood MX34. How do you change the angle of the tooth, by taking more off the face?
Quote from: tazz on May 19, 2010, 08:33:23 AM
Anyone else have any trouble sawing ash? I went through two blades with about 4 cuts per blade and it was all over the place.
I've sawed a lot of Ash in the last three years. I use 1.25" x 0.042" bands, sharpened at 10 degrees and set at 0.023". I do my own sharpening and setting. I've never had trouble with wavy cuts unless I'm at the end of a couple of hundred board feet on a band and the set has diminished.
Are your bands new? / resharpened? / properly set?
cheers
John
I don't usually saw much hardwood, just 3 or 4 in the pile of pine or hemlock.
I only have the 1¼-.045-10°, set at .025 Wood-Mizer brand bands!
I do have a larger order of hardwood coming up, so I'll have to talk to the guys in Hannibal about the best hook for hardwood.
How wide of a cut are you attempting? Presuming you mean that you are getting wavy cuts, not bowed boards. For me ash ranks near the top of the list of wood that can move the most as boards are taken off. Have seen a kerf open up over 3 inches only five feet behind the cut. I cut a lot of ash with Woodmizer 1.25 wide x 0.045 thick, 10 degree blades start to have trouble at an average feed rate when wood is more than about a foot wide. Switching to 9 degree blades and slowing down as necessary cut boards up to about 20 inch wide. Real problems with both when going over knotty areas too fast. Also to cut efficiently best to switch after blade is about a third dulled.
TAZZ, message me and we can discuss what the problem could be and how to remedy it. I have been through a lot of what you are experiencing and can tell you a lot from what I have learned over the years. Many times, its not the big things that cause the problem, its a few small things that get over looked.
Don't get discouraged and hang in there.
NMFP
I wouldn't think that there would be much difference in just 1°.
I don't really see where switching from a 10° to a 9° would be very beneficial.
I could more see a difference between 10° and 4°.
I've sawn quite a bit of White Ash over the years with the 10° blades and the only problem was tooth marks going across the boards. I always sawed them at 5/4 or thicker, that way they could be planed
Haveing tried 10* 7* and 4* 4* works by far the best in white or green ash, black ash is no problem. With a 4* blade I can feed a lot faster and cut straight than with any other hook angle. Steve
With WM blades, the hook angle is only half the story. The gullet shapes vary a lot, 4 being much deeper than 10, and I guess the 7s are even more dramatic.
I quarter saw all my ash with 7 degree blades Saws much better with the grain ;D
Quote from: Chuck White on May 20, 2010, 08:47:06 PM
I wouldn't think that there would be much difference in just 1°.
I don't really see where switching from a 10° to a 9° would be very beneficial.
I could more see a difference between 10° and 4°.
So far I've used only 10's and 9's. I find a significant difference in the ability to cut flat wide hard wood faster with the 9. Don't know why but that's what I've got. From your comment I should be very pleased with either 7's or 4's (going to buy 3 of each and take it from there). I see each new profile costing $200 for the wheel so don't just want to go all out without understanding the advantages. I have plenty of power (42 hp) and still wish I could go faster but don't want to turn out wavy lumber or beams.
I use mostly 10* on my lt40shdd51 hp wm mill and the only problem is the one terrifictimbers says about bowing. sometimes when unclamping the cant it springs substantially either up or down.
I then rotate 180*, make a sacrificial cut to true the cant and rotate 180* then keep clamped the rest of the way.
Works for me. (most of the time)
Also will bow side to side and I then try to correct also.
The ash I saw is mostly for farm gates and hay wagons so perfectly true boards are not a requisite.
Judging by the responses here I will try some 4* blades next purchase.
Quote from: petefrombearswamp on July 10, 2010, 10:48:04 AM
the only problem is the one terrifictimbers says about bowing.
Just to be clear in this thread I'm talking not about bowing, but about reducing the unevenness (dips, waviness, ups and downs, whatever it is called) produced in sawn lumber when a bandmill is cutting too fast. Finding 9's can go faster than 10's in wider hard wood and even in knotty softwood not so wide, and hoping that when I try 7's or 4's I'll be pleasantly surprised. Feeling more often now that feed rate is limiting output and would like to optimize this.
Some logs have a lot of stress ,some don't but wer're talking about sawing straight in ash at a GOOD feed rate. If one saws slow enough it most likely it will saw straight but pushing to the edge of a 30 or 4o hp diesel and still sawing straight is where the lesser hook angle blade wiil work where a 10* blade wont. With my 30 hp diesel and a 4* blade using all the power the moter has it will get some real small waves (nothing a planer won't take out on the first pass) when the blade starts to get dull. With a 10* blade it will wave 1/4 up and down when sharp. Steve
I'm almost certain there is a difference in density between green and white ash, white being harder. I wouldn't hazard a guess , but I know some trees that I cut into with a brush saw with light colored bark, more greenish brown and smoother, are softer than ones with purplish black mixed in brown in the bark along with white blotches like hard maple. Those dark ones are hard like beech. I'm talking saplings here, as the trees age I don't see that black, but a brown color in the trunk and the dark in the tops with the white blotches.
The white ash group has a density of 0.5-0.56 green and 0.58-0.64 oven dried. I believe the true white ash is the denser, just by experience with a brush saw.
Quote from: ladylake on July 10, 2010, 04:39:17 PM
Some logs have a lot of stress ,some don't but wer're talking about sawing straight in ash at a GOOD feed rate. If one saws slow enough it most likely it will saw straight but pushing to the edge of a 30 or 4o hp diesel and still sawing straight is where the lesser hook angle blade wiil work where a 10* blade wont. With my 30 hp diesel and a 4* blade using all the power the moter has it will get some real small waves (nothing a planer won't take out on the first pass) when the blade starts to get dull. With a 10* blade it will wave 1/4 up and down when sharp. Steve
Thanks very much you got it, that's what I'm doing (42hp) and have better results with 9 than 10, but feeling I could do better so going to try several 4's and 7's on Wood-Mizer's, yours and others suggestions. I suppose there are still the variables of thicker and wider blades but I am hoping to avoid these adjustments in the field. I'm invested in 9's and 10's blades and wheels already.