Looking to buy a new saw for general cutting and limbing my 2171 jred and my 365 both are getting quite tired and I'm not sure which is a better saw for me what is you guys opinions?
I would buy the 372xp myself. I want to see the reliability of AutoTune year in and year out, who is able to repair it, and what those repairs may cost before I sink a lot of money in it.
I did not know the 372 are still being made. I myself don't care for all that fancy stuff. Just another thing to go wrong.If the 372 came without,I would buy that.
Yeh true it looks to be a good saw on Paper but that doesn't always work good in the bush and I already know how good the 372s are cause my 2171 has been awesome! I'll keep you guys posted on what I decide
As far as I know the 372 is still being made according to my dealer
I did forget to mention I have a 372,probably 6 years old now.
Yeh they are great saws for sure definitely tried and true! Now on another note can I upload pics from my phone as I don't have a computer I have a few but haven't figured out how yet
I don't think the new 372 is the same as the old 372XP.
Yeh they have the xtorq motor but the saws look just like the older ones and they aren't auto tune
Have two 372xp's one is 2003 and the other is 2005 both run still great only problem I've had was a couple of bad switches, I'm still running a 1993 272xp that has a new p+c and a j-red 670 from the late 80's I bought at an auction for $100. Haven't tried the new technology yet. The local Husky dealer isn't to fond of the autotune models but he is old school.
Quote from: Maine logger88 on November 16, 2013, 07:43:00 PM
As far as I know the 372 is still being made according to my dealer
It is (the X-torq or "strato" version that is, it isn't exactly the same saw as the original 372xp) - but that could change any time, as the replacement for both the 372xp and the 576 has been tested for quite a while.
by the sounds of it your a logger like me and I run both these saws all day long , if your going to leave them stock and cutting hardwood any bigger than say 18 inches and your being chased by a skidder then get the 372 , if your cutting pine or smaller hardwood then the 562 is a nice saw to run, the 562 stock will cut just about any tree out there but when time counts the 372 has more balls in the cut
I have a 272 aswell there a good old saw! I'm kinda interested in the new technology but I'm not sure if I wanna spend 750 on a saw that hasn't proven itself yet
So there coming out with a saw to replace the 372 I wonder what model that will be? I cut a variety of wood anything from small spruce and fir up to pine and oak in the 40+ inch range depending on the lot I'm currently cutting hemlock 18 to 32 inch maybe I should buy a 562 for the smaller stuff and a 372 for the larger of course when I get into the real big stuff I dig out the jred 2186
I have been running 562's for about 18 months , nice slim saw for cutting softwood and yes everyone will tell you that it can run up to a 28 inch bar but most of those people cut very little and donot have to buy bars steady cause the saw does not oil enough , I find in white oak a 20 inch bar is about its limit , red oak is not quite as bad but your bar will still be pretty dry running a 24 inch bar , I cut mostly oak here . Donot hold your breathe on waiting on the new 572 any tome soon, was told maybe the beginning of next year but not sure on that either
Yeh I mostly run shorter bars 24 is my longest but that usually stays on the 2186
I'm curious what a 572 would offer over the 576.
There isn't a huge room for improvement IMHO. Trim some weight and bulk and update the engine management a slight amount (the AT on the 576 is really quite good).
But then plenty of folks still prefer old saws to the latest and greatest so I don't suspect that will change all of a sudden even with fuel injection or electric.
i run both on a daiky basis. for soft wood i feel there is not enough difference to justify carring the extra weight after the tree hits the ground. even in big white pine and hemlock 38" or better it seems only a few seconds differance. i run 20" bars on all my stuff so the comparison is pretty equal.
in big hardwood there is no comparison...the 372 handsdown smokes the littler saw. much more torque.
a couple things ive noticed with the little saw is if your cutting dirty wood and round your corners it shows up much more the the bigger saw natraly. and i dont think the 562 is as good on fuel ss some claim. i have to fuel up twice a hitch in hemlock vs once with my 372. it could be better on gas by volume i supose cuz i belive it has a smaller tank but it sure is a pain to fill up constantly.
You say your 2171 and 365 are getting tired. If it was me, I wouldn't buy a new saw, I would totally rebuild both of those saws and keep running them. Don't know if it would be alot cheaper, but might save you some headaches with the new saws. JMO.
Quote from: Scoter on November 17, 2013, 11:49:23 AM
I'm curious what a 572 would offer over the 576.
......
Nobody that know anything about that is allowed to tell about it, but remember that the 576 is a first generation "strato", with the first generation AT.....
It would be logic if one new model replaces both the 372 and the 576.
MEloggah how big of a twitch RU cutting must be around 2 2.5 crd cause that's about what I get out of my 2171 in average hemlock. Celliott I have thought of doing that as well but the casings are getting broke up and some bolts won't stay in anymore and there's nothing like a new saw
Quote from: SawTroll on November 17, 2013, 03:43:52 PM
Quote from: Scoter on November 17, 2013, 11:49:23 AM
I'm curious what a 572 would offer over the 576.
......
Nobody that know anything about that is allowed to tell about it, but remember that the 576 is a first generation "strato", with the first generation AT.....
It would be logic if one new model replaces both the 372 and the 576.
It wouldn't take too much to force their hand. If they don't let the cat out of the bag soon many will start assuming they are having problems with them (whether it's true or not). If it's just an issue of clearing old stock that doesn't show much loyalty to the customer. It's a corporate world either way.
I find my ported 562 pretty good of fuel , I can cut easy to hitches for my 230A and have fuel left , right now I'm cutting alot of bigger nice red pine and can cut 10 trees easy per tank and 4 trees is a real heavy pull for the cummins , I got lots of power just not enough weight
from what a Little Birdie told me their having trouble with the 572 just like the 562 had in the beginning and their not letting the 572 out until all problems are fixed , If any of you guys are running the new 365/372xt and all of a sudden your saw starts acting up like its getting lean, its the fuel line , everyone of my 365s has done the same thing , the fuel line gets a hole in it where it comes out of the tank
Quote from: Maine logger88 on November 17, 2013, 05:06:35 PM
MEloggah how big of a twitch RU cutting must be around 2 2.5 crd cause that's about what I get out of my 2171 in average hemlock. Celliott I have thought of doing that as well but the casings are getting broke up and some bolts won't stay in anymore and there's nothing like a new saw
Well that would nix that idea ::) Buy a couple dead 372's for the cases and swap parts? I'd do that just cause I like working on them :)
Considered a new Dolmar pro-size saw?
yi run 8 sliders and i make sure they are all full and some doubled usually. the real big big stuff 4 is about all the 640 can handle without straining her sack too hard. really steep and boney lot im on now though. so yea, 2 1/2- 3 cd. the furth im yarding the heavier i load..
i do love my smaller saws and they really shine in softwoid and my shoulders like it better too.
i didnt realize my post pretty much echoed an earlier one. sorry to be so repetetive.
ehp, whats your tj weight 16000? we have had lots of c4 and c5s both duetz and gms but the duetz would pull much harder. we had one with a c6 blade and loaded rubber and that baby would yard as much as you could give her it seemed. worked well out of its pay grade lol
without chains on it is comes in at 18,200 pounds , I put her on a scale at the pig farm , its a 1999 machine , just over 7,000 hours on it now and in pretty good shape , I bought it just over a year ago and the first owner only used it in the winter time . I wanted to buy a 66 or 666 clark or a 67 but could not find any thing I liked out there , most were junk . We had a couple 740's , 1 had 2 winches on it and a 4 way blade . very heavy machine but could pull the world if you could get it hooked up but also would get stuck at the first sign of wet ground
when I first came down south here I was thinking these guys down here sure like making lots of hitches per day cause most only had 2 chokers on their mainline , I learned real fast why that was , most of the timber you cut here is oak of some kind as there are 7 different types of oak here and 500 feet per tree is quite common and with white oak coming in at 14,000 pounds per 1000 ft on scale lots of times I take 1 big oak at a time , 1000 foot oak I see quite often and there a bitch to get to the landing most times
Wow I'd like to try a 640 I bet there quite an animal! My 540 I try to keep 2 to 2.5 on good going less on rough ground and my 225 around 1.5. ehp what model tj is yours
I sold my f666g a couple of months ago. it had a fresh 225hp 5.9bta in it. that skidder would pull what ever I could get hitched to it.
Yeh clarks are a good machine very simple to operate and tough as nails I've run a couple of the older 664 and 666 with Detroit power that was OK but a Cummins would be a lot better my only complaint was neither one had breaks which sucked for winching and dangerous on hills but I'm sure the newer ones had better breaks
Quote from: Maine logger88 on November 17, 2013, 10:27:47 PM
Wow I'd like to try a 640 I bet there quite an animal! My 540 I try to keep 2 to 2.5 on good going less on rough ground and my 225 around 1.5. ehp what model tj is yours
honestly i think you would be disapointed. i dont find it that impressive for its size and two extra cyls. im some glad i dont own it ill tell ya that. i operate it on % of wood cut. ill take our tree farmers all day every day. 12 to 15 gallons a day and i work alone so really no more wood gets on the landing at the end of the day. also it dont pull much more then any of the duetz piwered c5s we have had. its to high to jump in and out of all day also. the only thing about it is its quicker back through the woods empty. loaded you can only go so fast period. those are my thought on that pile!
O really huh I ran a 648 once and was disappointed but I figured that was just cause of the grapple but I guess not I think if I decide to replace the 540 it will probably be with a 240A and a 6cyl duetz I always was a Deere man but the I really like my 225 for a small machine so I imagine that I would really like a 240
Mine is a 230A , its the same as the 240A with the bigger axles and winch and the cummins has been opened up abit , now its to be about 142 hp, one of the last they made when John deere bought them out , its a really TJ not like alot of them around here which are half TJ and half JD, my Dad had quite a large logging company up north so we had just about every type of machine out there , I know I didnot like any of the 640's we had , the 540's were pretty good , the 740's were ok but under powered with only 170 plus hp so once that motor got tired we would be a 288 hp motor in them, huge difference and alot faster getting around but you had to stop and fuel up at noon or you would run out of fuel before quitting time , Had a couple TJ 450's that worked pretty good and the clark 666 and 66 , they worked very well and never had a second trouble with them all 5.9 cummin
I ran my latest play toy which is a ported 562 in some 36 to 40 inch on the stump oak today , I think I'm getting near its limit but it sure cuts that size of oak real good , way faster than a stock 372
O nice what does that have for a winch? I would really like to have one of the newest 200 series tj like yours there my favorite nice to get on and off for sure. Man I bet that 740 would pull a big twitch especially after you turned it up
mine has the gearamatic, Larry;s has the JD winch style on his , I like mine better , less trouble .
the 740 is a skidder that is pretty under powered but had alot of weight so it would pull hard just not fast so you loaded it up every hitch you did , now with the big power I found it made a huge difference in the snow , the skidder was alot faster and got around alot better as it had enough power to move
Yeh I saw a 240C on craigslist this summer in vt it was a 2000 model I believe, standard shift with the JD winch model to40 I believe but not sure if funds weren't tight I would probably have sold my 540 and bought it. My father was telling me about a 240A probably mid 80s with a 353 turbo and had four new forestry special tires four babec ice chains put on in the mid nineties a and has been kept in a barn ever since used only to pull the owners firewood id like to see if he would sell he probably wouldn't but no harm in asking
a tj with a duetz would be nifty. i never could make the controls and the left side exit grow on me :(
Who does your porting on your saws I'd like to try one is there someone I could send a cyl to and have it done not sure if id dare do it myself
MEloggah it took me awhile to get used to after running a Deere for so long but after running it most of the summer it kinda grew on me now the Deere is seriously hurt its all I have been running for the last couple weeks biggest thing that was hard for me was not being able to winch with the clutch pushed but now I'm used to it I hardly think of it
I do my own porting , I have ported a few saws in my life time LOL, I'm not a duetz fan , I have rebuilt way to many of them, but they are easy to fix . cold weather and those motors just donot like each other , One of my friends has a 1997 240 TJ and other than the winch there pretty much the extra same machine as mine , ya the TJ are easy to get in and out of but so were the 450 Tj with 23.1 by 26's on it .
Is it pretty hard to port is like to try maybe one of my older saws would be a place to start I've always just used stock saws and up until recently I didn't know so many people had such good luck with it I have however had good luck with my ported mxz cylinders. Yeh I have never had any experience with a duetz just heard good things about them I have had a little with a 4bt in a 180 Prentice but that's all I have run with the Cummins motor it worked great tho and I certainly wouldn't mind a 230 or 240 with one of them in it
there are lots of people that port saws , most have a good idea on what their doing . Myself I hate running a stock chainsaw but thats just me , I like the cummins motor in a skidder
and as far as learning how to port saws , yes a older 372 will be easier than say a new 562 to learn on , the newer motors takes abit more thinking than the older engines to get right and the older motors will be abit more forgiving if you make a mistake and over port it , these new motors not so much
Yeh maybe I will buy a new p@c from Baileys for my oldest 365 and try with that have any of you tried the big bore kit or would I be better off with the 372 p@c
Quote from: Maine logger88 on November 18, 2013, 09:14:54 PM
Yeh maybe I will buy a new p@c from Baileys for my oldest 365 and try with that have any of you tried the big bore kit or would I be better off with the 372 p@c
OEM cylinder
If youre gonna grind on it, save a few bucks and buy a Meteor kit.
ive been reading about ported 562s. seems like it really brings them to life. i always wonder about reliability though??? for my one man donkey show ill just keep things as is i think. i cant see it increasing my production in any way so why bother. i figure if i get a couple years out of a saw before she becomes parts then good enough.
EHP, how cold are u talking? we have had more the half a dozen duetz motors in skidders and never a lick of trouble. ofcourse 0 degrees is about my limit for workin my equipment. beliw that i say {inappropriate language edited by admins} it and go sit in my fish house for the day and drink beer ;D
I was thinking either the nwp big bore or the meteor 372
up north our limit was 40 below , colder than that we stayed home , found around 20 below you had to be very carefull on spinning the main bearings on the crank in a duetz, Use OEM all the time on cylinders and pistons
Quote from: Maine logger88 on November 18, 2013, 10:01:58 PM
I was thinking either the nwp big bore or the meteor 372
Leave the NWP kit on the shelf
Quote from: AdkStihl on November 19, 2013, 10:17:43 AM
Quote from: Maine logger88 on November 18, 2013, 10:01:58 PM
I was thinking either the nwp big bore or the meteor 372
Leave the NWP kit on the shelf
I have built a couple of big bores and they ran fine. Guys who have tested them side by side with stock saws show that you really don't gain much if anything. But, I don't know that they hurt anything either. The bugs in the early ones have been worked out.
40 below zero Ferenhight??!!!! :o your flippin insane!! you also just made me feel like a giant pus smiley_applause nic job lol
Back in 1972 visited a friend in Quesnel BC who worked in the woods. He said the union wouldn't allow them to work if it was colder than -40°f, but many times it would be colder than that in the morning, but they knew it would "warm up" when the sun got up so they went to work! ::) Too cold for me! :o
So if you don't gain any power with the bb may as well just use the 372 top end and try porting that. U and me both MEloggah I thought I was doing good when I went out at 12 below now I'm not so sure lol. ehp how do you get the machines to fire at 30 to 40 below its hard enough at ten below
if its real cold outside it depended on the type of engine , the Johndeere motors will start with ether and pull the pin so the hdy. pump is not turning , once the engine warms up abit put the pump back in gear , the cummins normally start no trouble with a touch of ether , If you had a fair weather engine then heat the motor up before starting , propane heater , but most guys put quick couplers on the skidder engine and on their pickup, just hook the pickup up to the skidder motor and just let the pickup idle and transfer the warm water/antifreeze from the pickup motor to the skidder motor but just on ldle so not to crack the head on the pickup when the cold fluid gets to it , The John deere motors once they got around 5,000 hours on them you had to be carefull not to twist the oil pump gear in half
as far as which cylinder to use , always use OEM period , if your not using the saw for you to make your living then maybe use aftermarket but I will stay with OEM, believe me I have ported more than my fair share of motors and after about 20 years of playing with motors I have seen just about everything and know what to stay away from
I did cut and skid logging here in northern Manitoba thru the '70s, '80s and got out of it in the early '90s when the processors moved in.
We kept our Clarkes and TJs warm down to 40 below F with propane hockey stick heaters. Covered the whole machine and propane tank with a nylon parachute.
When cutting for 2 skidders in 40 below in my younger days I most times wore rubber Nokia [like Viking] high tops with a thin felt liner, feet were toasty warm as long as there's a foot of snow or more on the ground and only stop long enough to touch up the sawchain. :D
I was born raised in north central Saskatchewan and our winters were more brutal, I think of my dad and grandpa homesteading our farms with no electricity let alone no running water with hot summer days up to 110 and a few months later down to 40-50 below.
Yeh my deere started that day I was talking about that was 12 below with no either just pulled up the lever to disengage the tranny and winch turned over 3 or four times and fired right up the driptriot in my tj on the other hand needs either by 20 degrees. One thing about cold weather I like is not having to limb hemlock for and spruce
Quote from: ehp on November 19, 2013, 06:19:57 PM
always use OEM period
I agree with you Ed, 150%!!! But if someone is going to cut their teeth porting a cylinder, I suggest finding a few junk practice cylinders 1st. Walking a burr around the inside of an OEM cylinder can be an expensive learning experience.
What kind of life do you guys get out of your saws I'd figure my 2171 has cut roughly 2500 crd either chopping in the woods or when I have a chopper I'll use it in the yard that number is of course a guess it has also cut up a couple hundred crd of firewood and the top end has never been off but it now has a lot less power than my fathers of course his hasn't cut much wood cause he only logs now when he has to and probably doesn't cut more than 5 to ten loads a year
I use to run my saws 18 months then get rid of them and I bought 3 at a time , I always had people waiting to buy my run saws at half price of a new one so in my mind thats pretty cheap to be in new saws all the time , Now I have so many people that want my run saws I'm lucky to keep any saw more than 6 months , They will pay what it cost me to get a new saw from a dealer in NH I deal with , I do have 1 -365 xt that I have ran now for about a year and a 390 that is a year old but I donot run it much unless I get into big timber , stuff like 5 foot across or bigger
Yeh nothing like a new saw it seems like with my old junk I'm either working on or going to get parts way more than I'd like trouble is around here all the pros naturally run new stuff and the homeowners don't want anything bugger than a 50 to 55 cc so I just keep running them till there's nothing left
MaineLogger, Mastermind recently posted a fairly detailed description of the porting on a Stihl MS-461 on the "Arborist" site. The saw was done to raise money to help a forum member there with medical bills related to severe cardiac problems.
Wish you the best with your endeavor.
who do u deal with in nh? my dealer is also in nh bout a half hr from me. windy ridge corp.
OK I'll check that out before I try porting thank you
Quote from: MEloggah on November 19, 2013, 11:20:34 AM
40 below zero Ferenhight??!!!! :o your flippin insane!!
The nice thing about 40 below... it's the same thing whether you're talking Fahrenheit or Celsius. (But that's the only nice thing about it, IMO.)
not sure I can post his name on here , , well I put the 562 threw hell today , I'm at the very back of my cut so that 5/8's of a mile skid and I got 22 trees out today , 16 of them a 9 foot choker would not go around so had to use the mainline , all hardwood with most being red oak or white oak
Nice do you bring one too a time or can you bring two? Have you ever tried the choker extent ions I have been meaning to buy one my second choker back looks like a u now from doubling them. I cut hemlock today first thing this morning it was cold enough to back them through the stand and get most of the limbs I like when that works out
I try and bring 2 at a time but sometimes that does not work , I set my mainline up so I just hook the choker back into another slide , most of the times around here if I cannot get a choker around the tree and its real long like lots of the stuff is around here I end up taking 1 , its real flat where I am right now so I try and hook 2 up and off I got in 2nd gear
Must make a pretty good twitch with two I like taking all that I can also when its a long pull like that trouble is my little 225 struggles with much over 1.5 to 2 crd. That sounds like a good setup sure beats staving another choker up
Quote from: John Mc on November 20, 2013, 05:51:11 PM
Quote from: MEloggah on November 19, 2013, 11:20:34 AM
40 below zero Ferenhight??!!!! :o your flippin insane!!
The nice thing about 40 below... it's the same thing whether you're talking Fahrenheit or Celsius. (But that's the only nice thing about it, IMO.)
lol thats right good catch
most of the hardwood I'm cutting right now should average about 500 feet a tree in scale plus the pallet junk so 2 of them is a pretty good hitch , about 30 inch on the stump is pretty well as small as I'm cutting on this cut , lots in the 35 inch to 40 inch thou
That's some good sized hardwood kinda fun to cut big wood most of the big trees I get to cut are pine and lately been into good sized hemlock here's a nice pine I cut a few weeks ago excuse the bad stump it had been a few weeks so I was a little rusty
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34559/IMG_20130918_110440_581.jpg)
And a hemlock
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34559/IMG_20131013_115438_443.jpg)
I just cut a hemlock for the wife. My stump is as low as yours. Good job. Reason I cut mine so low,tractors don't like high stumps. My land is kinda hard to get around on with a tractor. I don't need a stump in my way. I brought the log to my mill and sawed about 18 inches off the butt. That will make fodder for the OWB.
Yup I learned to cut low stumps back when I used a farmall m with a farmi but even with the skidder it makes for a lot smoother ride plus the way I figure it is if you cut a stump a foot taller than it needs to be at the end of the day its probably a half cord of wood that me and the landowner don't get paid for and where I work on pretty much all private woodlots it makes them happy and a good word is the best advertising you can get
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34559/IMG_20131127_164656_113.jpg) I made my decision and went with a 562xp but I am going to hopefully buy a 372xp the first of the year
That will work for ya. Good luck with it.
Thanks I hope so wish tomorrow wasn't Thanksgiving gonna have to wait till Fri to try it can't wait!!!
562 is a real good saw , I know I like the ones I have alot and that is what I'm cutting with, 1 thing I do to my 562's is go to the dealer and buy the chain catcher off the 365/372xt and put it on the 562 , the saw will sit up proper and not fall over every 10 seconds
So there the same bolt pattern? They said too make sure to run 91 octane gas and what mixing oil do you recommend
I was in the local Husky shop today and asked the owner whether he'd rather maintain 372's or 562's. He said, right now, he prefers the 372, although things are going quickly to AT technology and at some point 372's will not be able to be imported into the US.
yes high test pump gas and I run them at 40-1 on the oil mixture , yes I know everyone says 50-1 but I'm not putting crank bearing in like everyone else either , In fact I have never put a crank bearing in any of my saws , on my real hot ported worksaws I run 32-1 , I have been just running Stihl oil from the dealer right beside me , It has fuel stabalier in it
OK thanks I'm going to try it tomorrow I can't wait! I got a deer this afternoon my favorite way to end a Thanksgiving so now I can focus on work and only work till spring!
ehp,high grade in all my small motors and 40:1 for me too.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34559/IMG_20131129_155840_698.jpg) First tree with the new saw I cut with it a couple hours today and love it hopefully don't have to work on the skidder tomorrow and maybe I can get a full day in tomorrow with it
Logger 88, I love mine. I have 2 450, one is 1 yr old one is 2. Lol since I got the 562xp they don't get much use. I probably will sell one of 450's and buy another 562xp. The one I have is running a 28 inch bar, great for limbing these junipers (lots of limbs). With the 28 I don't have to bend over much, that's great for an old man lol. Ed
Yeh the rev boost works great for limbing and for felling it has surprisingly good power I'm running a 20 on mine I was sceptical about the auto tune at first but as long as I don't have much trouble with it I'm convinced
if the saw does not want to start after you have it warmed up just put the fast idle on or hold the throttle wide open and it will start , next on bar length if your just cutting softwood then yes you can run a long bar but if you get into cutting stuff like white oak then I find a 22 inch is as long of a bar I can run , the saw does not put out enough bar oil on a 24 inch in white oak, red oak I can get by with a 24 inch
OK thanks for the tip! I don't plan on running anything longer than the 20 it still didn't seem to be oiling enough but I didn't have time to play with the adjustment I'll bring it inside and turn it up tonight tho