Cryogenics

[kenskip1]

Last year in colllage, I had to do a term paper. I did it on the topic of Cryogenics. This process involves the material being taken down to the teemperatur of-300 degrese below zero on degree at a time. I have used this process on my knives and it does what the company claims.Any cutting tool be it a hand carvers chisle or a set of bobsled runners or a surgeons scalple will maintane a sharper edge and will resist abraisins while maintaning the steels integedry. In short, this is like steroids for the steel. My question is, has any one used this process on a saw chain?
As soon as I figure out how to scan and post my report I will make this available. Ken

[kenskip1]

Have a gander at this site. I spent over100 hours on this topic and the results are indispuitable.
http://www.onecryo.com/onecryo/how.htm
 Ken

[kenskip1]

How Does One Cryo Do It?
The answer is very, very slowly. One Cryo has spent years developing and perfecting the ultimate process for increasing  performance and durability. Our deep cryogenic process removes stress allowing the molecules to realign in a tougher, stronger, more uniform matrix. Also, transfer retain Austenite (soft carbon) into Martensite (smaller, more wear resistant carbon) This gives you increased durability and resistance to wear.    
We treat your equipment right! Our entire process may take as long as 72 hours to complete. Blades to be cryogenically processed are first placed in our cryogenic chamber at room temperature. Other methods drop the blades in their processor at -50F to -100F.
 This can cause thermal shock. Other methods drop pieces to be treated in their processor at -50F to -100F. Not so at One Cryo. It takes as long as twelve hours for our process to go from room temperature to -300F. That's less than one degree per minute.    
Our computers monitor and control the entire process. Accuracy can be measured to 1/10th of one degree during any part of the process.    

Our advanced control systems regulates precise temperature changes, thus ensuring that your parts are returned to you Stress Relieved and Dimensionally Stabilized, which will allow your blades to take a sharper edge and hold that edge up to four times longer.
 
Ken

[Tom]

There have been booths at the Agricultural Fair about cryogenics and cutting edges.  I find it interesting.

[etat]

Well, this is certainly disappointing.  I thought for sure you was gonna tell me how that after I kicked the bucket you could freeze me solid and  bring me back in a hundred years or so and I'd be the oldest wisest person on the planet.

[Sawyerfortyish]

Yea and I bet you would be sharper and hold your edge longer to for your age ;D

[Oregon_Rob]

Like many things, doesn't it come down to practicality? I'm sure it would work, but be cost and time prohibitive, except for maybe the DOD, or NASA.

[Sawyerfortyish]

I don't think that a hardened chainsaw chain would be any advantage. It might cut longer before sharpening but you would probably have to have someone with a grinder resharpen it. The time you spend in taking it off and putting a differant one on and taking the hard one to someone with a grinder. I don't know it only takes 3 or 4 min to touch up a chain on the saw. I hate when you get a chain that has a tooth that is harder than the others.

[TJACK]

We have tried cryogenics on tool steel and the wear improvements were nonexistant.  I have read about this treatment being applied to precision rifled barrels with the same results.  I wouldn't waste the time or money on a saw chain.

TJACK

[SwampDonkey]

 ;)

I'm also a sceptic of this proccess. When the steel returns to room temperature the molecules will return to thier previous behaviour, won't they?

[Rocky_J]

I find it interesting how many ingenious methods are conceived to get or keep a saw chain sharp. The problem is that all these methods are developed by people who can't sharpen a chain to begin with. If they could sharpen a chain easily, they wouldn't spend so much time and effort developing all these off-the-wall ideas to solve a nonexistent problem.

Buy a box of files and practice until you can use them well. It's only a little chunk of metal with a couple sharp edges, you use the file to recreate the sharp edges after you get them dull. Look at the dull tooth, see the sharp tooth in your mind ands use the file to fix it. It ain't rocket science.
 

[kenskip1]

Dear Tooling Consumer,
Thank you for inquiring about Deep Cryogenic Tempering for tooling and considering One Cryo's services. One Cryo enters the 21st Century by continuing our commitment to exploration, research and development of cutting edge applications in the field of Cryogenics for manufacturing and machine shops. We are currently involved with several leading corporations, universities, research centers, manufacturers and national racing teams developing additional materials analysis profiles. As a result of these ongoing efforts One Cryo has emerged at the forefront in Deep Cryogenic Tempering and continues to be "The World Leader in Deep Cryogenic Tempering".

One Cryo treats all types of materials including tooling and industrial components of various types and sizes of Ferrous and Non-ferrous materials such as D-2, 52100, A-6, A-2, Aluminum, Titanium, Cast Iron, Cast and Forged, as well as all cutting tools used in manufacturing, machining and machine shops. We also treat all types of combustion engine parts as well as golf ball, golf clubs, aluminum softball bats.  

The results from cryogenically treating these parts has been no less than tremendous, from 25 to 500% Longer Life, Increased Wear Resistance, Increased Durability, Decreased Internal Stress, Increased Dimensional Stability, Increased Horsepower and Torque up to 10% are being experienced by today's industry leaders as a result of One Cryo's innovative Deep Cryogenic Tempering process. Our process is not a coating and will not wear off. Deep Cryogenic Tempering is a complete molecular transformation and stress relief process that Increases Tool Life 25 to 500%, Increases Dimensional Stability, Wear Resistance, Horsepower and Torque!

I hope that you find our web sight helpful in your efforts to evaluate the endless possibilities of applications that cryogenic tempering can be used for. Should you have any additional questions please feel free to contact you nearest One Cryo center. 1-800-300-cryo


 I respect all of your opinions. However I have used this process and I will continue to do so.Ideally you want to send the chain and files as one item. Their is no disputing scientific documentattion! Call the company at the number listed above, Kenskip1

[SwampDonkey]

CK:

I understand all that, but I was wondering what happened when it returned to room tempature. I know heating and pressure makes a permanent change, but freezing it and then having it warm back up to room temperature? Didn't think there would be any big deal to that.

[SwampDonkey]

 :D :D :D

I feel like I fell in the middle of a spam post.

;D

[SwampDonkey]

Ok, now I get the picture, as this process is part of the quenching phase and we aren't talking about taking a piece of metal at room temperature and freezing it.

  ;)

[etat]

Swamp Donkey A +........

Now, a few more questions as to whether this is a legitimate process for a chainsaw chain. ???


kenskip1.......,

First I'm  curious, how much would something like this cost?

Second, I'm much confused about the benefits of retempering a chainsaw chain, and even more confused about retempering a file.  Usually when tempering  a tool such as a chisel or a knife for instance it is only the cutting edge that is hardened leaving the body of the piece somewhat softer so it isn't as prone to shatter. In the case of a tool that will be hit with a hammer the head of the tool should be just a bit softer than the body of the tool.  Drawing the temper properly makes the tool safer, and more useful.

 A  chainsaw chain would consist not only of the cutting teeth, but also the links and the pins that hold it together. Now imagining that each of these components have their own individual characteristics, type of metal  and hardness I fail to see how they could be retempered as a unit successfully.  Perhaps you could elaborate :

Has this company ever actually done this on chains for a chainsaw and then had someone try them in the field and if so what were the results of the test.  I'm not sure that I'm would be comfortable being a guinea pig for this process without seeing the results of these tests.


 Final thoughts,  Perhaps treating the individual components before being assembled at the factory would be the best possibility of improvement.  :P

[kenskip1]

Cskate,
          I never have used this process on a saw chain. My question is, has any one used this process on a saw chain?  On Rockwells scale of hardness a saw chain and teeth are on the average a 67. Most files are 72-75 on this scale. If the teeth were any harder you are getting close to carbide.Like I mentioned saw chain is rather soft material.

I have personally used this process on all my cutlerie. Are you aware that certain Ole Henery knives as well as certain Buck knives recieve this process?Same as Gerber  knives. I sent my favorite Buck knive and had this process. I have not had to sharpen this most usefull cutting tool in over two years.
As mentioned earlier, this process does what the company states.
 My only question was as to has any one used this process on a saw chain?  Thanks for all the replies, Ken

[TJACK]

As I mentioned above, we have used this process on tool steels, D2, S7, Vanades 4, in a controlled experiment with out any improvements in tool life (we did not use Ken's company).  I have heard some of the NASCAR teams claiming improved life with gears.  If some one does test this process, a base line needs to be established to compare against.

TJACK

[etat]

A quick Summary

Ken

I sent my favorite Buck knive and had this process. I have not had to sharpen this most usefull cutting tool in over two years.

My only question was as to has any one used this process on a saw chain?  Thanks for all the replies, Ken

Ken

 However I have used this process and I will continue to do so.Ideally you want to send the chain and files as one item. Their is no disputing scientific documentattion!

Ken

I never have used this process on a saw chain. My question is, has any one used this process on a saw chain?  On Rockwells scale of hardness a saw chain and teeth are on the average a 67. Most files are 72-75 on this scale. If the teeth were any harder you are getting close to carbide.Like I mentioned saw chain is rather soft material.

 

My buddy Swamp ;D

I feel like I fell in the middle of a spam post ;D.

And now from    TJACK

used this process on tool steels, D2, S7, Vanades 4, in a controlled experiment with out any improvements in tool life.

and finally......

Words of Wisdom.......

If some one does test this process, a base line needs to be established to compare against.

 My favorite knife is a Case Barlow XX that I found in some rocks at Enid Lake years ago fishing.  NOT to be sharpened tempered, or otherwise abused in any way.

I have thourghly enjoyed this discussion!

[SwampDonkey]

CK:

Pardon my suggestion here, but you need to go to bed at night. ;)

[etat]

Anybody got a cure for a hopeless insomniac?  I don't sleep much. ???  Seriously.

[SwampDonkey]

You've probably got alot of things on your mind, haven't you. When I get like that I can't sleep either. But, even so, a normal sleep period for me is about 6 hours. Its seems some of us get that way when we get in our mid thirties, and that's not a scientific statement. Just, I know quite a few people that don't sleep much. I don't think my father ever slept much all the time I can remember. I know there are natural supplements for insomnia, but I don't believe in taking supplements. I have a well balanced diet with lotsa fruit, vegies and fibre and a cup or two of coffee in the am. I don't drink beverages with caffeine at night.

I know with the type of work you do CK, your getting all kinds of exercise to. Same here, my knees feel like too much exercise some days. Oh well life's a beech.  :D

[tony_marks]

wonder if it would work on body parts im newly single again.. but
at 57 ,i never know whether my chain gonna be sharp or not..
 and buying a new chain is out..just kidding fellows ,i aint ready to turn nto a rogue yet.. [did i spell that rite.] cant use the real name for it on the forum..sounds painful tho dont it. :D

[etat]

   

Wanna say more but I'm afeared too. ;D

 8)

[SwampDonkey]

 :D :D :D

Nothin held ya back before. ;D