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Milling 50+ foot beams 10x12, 12x12

Started by Herbettehunter, January 19, 2022, 06:42:51 AM

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Andries

There were plenty of days when I thought; this nuts!


 
My setup could go to 52' long, but the real trick was to get the job done with a 28" throat. If recalled correctly, there were only about a dozen logs that I needed to cut to fit that length.


 
Without very straight logs, it would never work.
I would've killed for a wide mill back in the day.
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

customsawyer

I did some hardwood at 45' one time. I've only had the extra 12' extension added on once I got the mill to the house. I want a contest that I can win. :D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Don P

A CSM is gonna win that one  :D. We're at 60' on about 2 grand of equipment and are only limited to what can come out of the woods. But it sure isn't fast.


 
 

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

moodnacreek

Quote from: Don P on January 21, 2022, 06:56:01 AM
A CSM is gonna win that one  :D. We're at 60' on about 2 grand of equipment and are only limited to what can come out of the woods. But it sure isn't fast.


 

That sounds like a long walk with a chainsaw but it beats  a broad axe.  I suppose there is no side lumber involved.

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: mike_belben on January 21, 2022, 07:14:49 AM
You guys are animals
Well if THIS isn't the perfect example of the pot calling the kettle Black, I don't know what is. :D :D :D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Don P

 :D :D

For sidewood, if it is a recoverable sized slab we cut them down, usually in the 12' range, brought that out easier and sawed on the swingblade, recovery was poor but something. I think I got the heavy stringers and treads out of the sidewood off that tree, it was ~3' at the base to get a 12x12x60'

Andries

Well guys, that sounds like the winner at 60 feet. Chicken dinner for Don!
While there's a lot of experience in our replies to Herbettehunter, the op. . . Haven't heard from him in a while.
What d'you think, did all us animals scare him off? 😉
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

scsmith42

Quote from: Andries on January 21, 2022, 01:02:30 PM
Well guys, that sounds like the winner at 60 feet. Chicken dinner for Don!

Hmm.... This sounds like a challenge....
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Don P

Ruh-roh  :D, I know of some monsters, but they are up there for a reason.

I guess one way of looking at it is a CSM can do the 1 or 2%, I wouldn't build for that, figure out where the majority of big timber cutoff is, I'd bet 40'

customsawyer

I hooked the extra 12' extension on just because I had it. Figure I'll use it about 10 times. It does give me bragging rights around these parts.
Okay to a contest I can win. Who has cut the most timbers 35' plus?
I've been known to be a little competitive and combative when I'm loosing. :D
Grandpa always said "Don't fight fair. Fight to win."
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

customsawyer

Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

scsmith42

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

scsmith42

Quote from: customsawyer on January 21, 2022, 03:54:19 PM
Okay to a contest I can win. Who has cut the most timbers 35' plus?

That's a challenge that I'll take a pass on....
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

caveman

Quote from: customsawyer on January 21, 2022, 06:10:52 AMI did some hardwood at 45' one time. I've only had the extra 12' extension added on once I got the mill to the house. I want a contest that I can win.
Just host the contest at your place.
Caveman

Don P

There is a practical limit... did I just say that  :D. We did 3 sides in the woods to get the weight manageable but left it around 16" deep just to move them the mile or so to the site, I figured we stood a good chance of breaking a 12x12 if it hit a pothole hard, and then there's trying to not poke somebody's eye out with the thing.

Dave Shepard

Don't know how many 35'+ I've done, never kept track, but could estimate.
Over 50'-6.
Over 40'- about 30.
Over 30'- dozens.

Then there is the one that got away. I didn't end up needing this log full length, but it would have made a 12"x12" 68'-6" without wane.


 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

customsawyer

Like all contest this one is rigged. I was cutting timbers for a excavator to walk on. So you could say that the tolerances was not as tight as one for a timber frame house. I used to do  100+ per week for months on end when those big orders came in. Just keep in mind that if one was off by ½" it didn't matter to the equipment walking on it. Also I was allowed lots of wane. All I needed was a 2" flat ish spot on each face. There were lots of logs that I would square up to 24"x24" and bust 4 timbers out of. The absolutely worst way to cut a timber for a home but for some equipment to walk on it didn't matter. I've seen those timbers bow so bad they would stack 100K pounds of lumber on them to hold them down while they drilled the holes and drove bolts in to hold it in place. I've also cut some really nice red and white oak into these timbers. The things you have to do when you don't own the logs.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Herbettehunter

I have been reading continuously the responses to my initial questions regarding milling long beams.

Andries: yes you guys are animals; no you guys did not scare me off, if anything you've motivated me further to pursue this niche area which I do think will be a challenge but a good one. 

One of the questions that didn't quite get answered yet is the following. Regardless of which manufacturer I choose, assuming it's a band sawmill like Wood-mizer or Baker which were my original two choices for this particular endeavor, is it advisable to have hydraulics completely down the track. I read how turning the log on the bed really puts wear and tear on the side supports (Andries), but it seems some hydraulics down the length of the bed might help this to be more of a production approach. If so, what do you suggest - additional bi-directional chain turners, additional side supports, log clamps, an additional roller toeboard (to correct better for taper over such long lengths give the fact that the log will bend over this length when you correct for taper)????

customsawyer

The only time I have turned some off of the sawmill is when it was beyond the strength of my hydraulics. I was in production mode down at that other mill. I have the chain turner on the LT70 and the claw turner on the extension. Hydraulic side supports and toe board rollers are a game changer. They keep you from walking back and forth thus adding speed to the operation. One of the most frustrating logs for me to cut is 22'. It's not long enough to reach both side supports on the mill and still reach the side support and toe board roller on the extension. So you end up having to bring it as close to the head of the mill and work with it the best you can. They can be a challenge. At 24' to 25' I can just reach the mills and extension side supports plus the first toe board roller on the extension. Once you get to 28' I can bring both turners and clamps in to play and that is a game changer. I turned 99% of my logs on the mill. I didn't notice to much abuse on the side supports as it was based on the strength of the hydraulics. Keep in mind that in knowing what I was going to be doing with the mill I didn't have it bolted to concrete when I was doing the high production sawing. This allowed the mill and extension to move around a little instead of being rigid. If I would of had the mill bolted down in that application I think I would have had to had some long leads on my welder or one heck of a extension cord for it. These big logs are heavy and when that square face lands it can hit hard on occasion. When cutting for high quality timbers I will make a couple of cuts on the first two faces using the toe board rollers. Then when you turn the first face to the bed the log is supported on the bed rails thus removing any deflection that might have been caused by the toe board roller. Cut your next two faces to where you want them and then finish up your first two faces of the timber. This keeps everything plum, flush and square. Removing any deflection or sag that might have been in the first two faces.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Andries

As customsawyer pointed out, my setup also lacked the side supports at certain spots on the rail. That is caused by the trapezoid shape of the WM frame and extensions. It creates connection zones where it's a challenge to place side supports. Doable, I think, but tricky. You had mentioned Doug fir as your species of choice, which isprobably very well suited to the long timber market. Customsawyer's points re onboard hydraulics for turning and on-ground  support for the frame are very well taken. I was using a peavy hook on a chain, lifting with a fel. One of my photos earlier showed that low cost way of turning. On ground turning would have been the better low-cost way to do this.



Big logs lead to this:



I'm glad that you've been motivated by descriptions and joking around, and I'll be watching for your progress. We're curious animals, yknow?
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

Dave Shepard

There is relevant information here regarding hydraulics on the extensions: European Wood-Mizers.
I have linked the first side support on the extension to the mill and also can move the first hydraulic toe board to the extension with a set of 24' hoses.

Hydraulic backstop on bed extension. - YouTube
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: Andries on January 22, 2022, 08:11:17 AM
As customsawyer pointed out, my setup also lacked the side supports at certain spots on the rail. That is caused by the trapezoid shape of the WM frame and extensions. It creates connection zones where it's a challenge to place side supports. Doable, I think, but tricky. You had mentioned Doug fir as your species of choice, which isprobably very well suited to the long timber market. Customsawyer's points re onboard hydraulics for turning and on-ground  support for the frame are very well taken. I was using a peavy hook on a chain, lifting with a fel. One of my photos earlier showed that low cost way of turning. On ground turning would have been the better low-cost way to do this.



Big logs lead to this:



I'm glad that you've been motivated by descriptions and joking around, and I'll be watching for your progress. We're curious animals, yknow?
What part is that that is bent? (Below-big logs lead to this)
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

barbender

I remember reading an article where Logosol sawed out the world record length 2x4. I don't remember, it was metric but I think it was around 80' long😊
Too many irons in the fire

Andries

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on January 22, 2022, 11:05:44 AMWhat part is that that is bent? (Below-big logs lead to this)
Jim Rogers
Jim: It's a manual toe board, the lower thread-rod support.
Here's a photo of the replacement toe board with the removed bent unit on the SS bunk, above.


 
Remember, my work was done on a 1992 LT30. The engineers of that mill may not have endorsed what I put that poor mill through, but it took the strain remarkably well.
Jim: as an active educator/trainer of timberframers, what is your thinking  re long timber production? The use of scarf joints placed over post braces seems to be a standard practice, cancelling the need for super long Timbers. Do you place a premium on single long beams over jointed shorter ones? Perhaps Peter Drouin, @Peter Drouin a NE miller of beams could comment on the demand he has in his business for long Timbers?
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

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