28'x50' Barn, broke ground this weekend

jimdad07 · November 07, 2015, 03:37:35 PM

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on November 07, 2015, 09:48:00 AM
Quote from: jimdad07 on November 07, 2015, 09:28:59 AM
It looks to me that the depth of the undersquint is a 1/4 of the beam depth, yours is 2" and your beam is 8". So if that is the rule then my undersquint will have a depth of 4" on a 16" beam. Is my thinking correct?

You could try it and see how it looks. If it looks proportional then maybe. I don't know for sure what the rule on that is.

Jim Rogers

It is a lot of fun learning this. Hard to do through a forum but the end result will be worth it. With the farm and my day job it's going to take quite awhile, wish I had a block of time to go to a course but that's just not going to happen. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, you are busy and I know how hard it is to teach people who are new, I deal with apprentices every day myself. At least I get the benefit of being there with them.

jimdad07 · November 08, 2015, 12:00:49 PM

I laid out a 64" long scarf on a piece of aluminum flashing. It was close but I was off by 3/16" from one undersquint to the other. Still happy with the first try but I'm going to take Jim's example and double it. His beams were 8", mine is 16". Getting ready to put another tie beam log on the mill, I'll cut a 1"x16" board off of it and try it again but this time I'll make it 4' long, that first attemp was extremely long.

Jim_Rogers · November 09, 2015, 11:29:36 AM

I guess my question is: "why a 16" deep plate?"

Jim Rogers

jimdad07 · November 09, 2015, 08:47:12 PM

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on November 09, 2015, 11:29:36 AM
I guess my question is: "why a 16" deep plate?"

Jim Rogers

I ran all of my numbers through the load calcs for EWP figuring for an 80psf total load for the second floor of my barn. Reason being that my wood shop will be up there and I plan to sticker green lumber in the eave spaces. I figured out what the main species of wood I deal with weigh per board foot when green and figured my loads accordingly. It is major overkill for the most part but I want my bases covered for any eventualities. The other reason behind the large beams is more strength fighting the tension of the thrust at the top plates against the tie beams. I'm trying to keep my second floor open, it may not be possible to do so but I might be able to get away with it with heavier timbers.

jimdad07 · November 09, 2015, 10:47:02 PM

Think I figured out the scarf joint. I was treating it like rocket science, had to take a step back and think it over. Basically what I did with a 1-1/4"x16"x5' board was lay out the undersquints first, after laying out the 4' lines. I measured down 4" from the arris on one end and 12" down from the arris on the other end. After getting my marks I then measured in from my 4' lines 1" and connected the dots. Now with the undersquints layed out I connected the two undersquints with parallel lines, this gave me the layout lines for the table of the joint. Next I found the center point of the joint and pulled an 1-1/2" from each side to layout where the wedges go. I'll get pictures up tomorrow of the test board.

jimdad07 · November 10, 2015, 09:31:24 AM

Here is the picture as promised. This joint is 4' long, I doubled Jim's length for the overall joint as well as doubled the depth of the undersquints and doubled the measurements to get the angle of the undersquints (measured in 1" instead of the 1/2" measurement). As far as being proportional I think it turned out quite well.

jimdad07 · November 15, 2015, 12:03:45 AM

Well I have finally made a scarf joint, my first framing joints ever. Tomorrow I try to fit them up and layout the tie beams for the first bent. I am not pleased with the finish of the joints but I learned a few lessons to carry to the next one.
First lesson learned never use a saw all blade to cut out where the circular saw couldn't reach. I hit a knot in the beam that made the blade dive into the cut and made a mess of cut. The outside of the cut looks good but the inside of the cut is going to bug me.
Second lesson learned: a Japanese style pull saw is a little too flimsy for the large joints I'm cutting. I noticed that it the middle of a wide cut bows out some because of the blade deflecting I'm the middle. I'm going to pick up a traditional carpenters handsaw, going to see if I can get one locally that cuts on the pull stroke.
Third lesson: I should have oriented the arris on both beams to be on the same side, I will now have to remember that they are on opposite sides when I layout the rest of the beam joints.
Tomorrow will tell if I did it right or not.

jimdad07 · November 15, 2015, 12:15:59 AM

This is the first joint I cut. Ended up doing most of it with a chainsaw and finishing off with a 2" chisel and a hand plane. It came out decent.

This is a shot of my sawhorses I made for this project. Might make two more tomorrow to make my test fitting a little easier. I figure if these horses can handle these big beams then I did something right with them.

jimdad07 · November 15, 2015, 02:03:53 PM

Fitted the first joint today, just have a little trimming to do and makes the wedges. I used a frame I made to take the loader off of my tractor to work the beams together. I rigged one end of the beam with my straps in a way that I could slide the joint together as I used the come along to lift one end up. Worked great with little effort on my end to put it together.

Jim_Rogers · November 16, 2015, 10:33:45 AM

Looks good.

Jim Rogers

jimdad07 · November 16, 2015, 05:42:46 PM

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on November 16, 2015, 10:33:45 AM
Looks good.

Jim Rogers

Thanks Jim. Your layout was perfect when I doubled it. I decided against making a template, I think I can be a little more accurate measuring them all. I made my wedges out of ash, drove them in from both sides and then picked one end up of the whole shootin match and wouldn't you know the joint was strong enough to pick up the whole length joined together. Thanks again for posting the tutorial.

Jim_Rogers · November 16, 2015, 10:56:34 PM

I'm glad it worked out for you. And yes it is something when you join two timbers together end to end and the act as one.

Jim Rogers

jimdad07 · November 17, 2015, 06:17:03 PM

Ordered a Big Foot saw today, a regular circ saw and hand saws are taking forever on these big beams, I'll still have plenty of hand cutting to do with a 10" saw but it should make it much faster.

jimdad07 · November 23, 2015, 11:10:38 AM

My beam saw came in Saturday, tried it out yesterday, what a difference. Cut the time in half or better on these big scarf joints plus a much better finished product.

jimdad07 · November 28, 2015, 10:56:15 PM

Slowly starting to get joinery cut, here's a shot of my first tenon as well as some joist pockets for the second floor joists. The Big Foot I picked up was worth every penny. Just put a new blade on it today and oh boy, what I nice cutting saw.

jimdad07 · November 30, 2015, 09:10:16 PM

Nine more of these tie beams to go. Taking my time and enjoying it, just have to cut my brace pocket and mortice and this one is going to the sticker pile.

Brian_Weekley · November 30, 2015, 09:39:17 PM

Looking good, but I'd still wish you'd post a drawing of what it's going to look like. The suspense is killing me. :D

jimdad07 · November 30, 2015, 09:55:55 PM

Quote from: Brian_Weekley on November 30, 2015, 09:39:17 PM
Looking good, but I'd still wish you'd post a drawing of what it's going to look like. The suspense is killing me. :D

Now that would take the mystery away, my fun would be over. What would you have to look forward to with each installment? I haven't put a plan up because it's changed quite a lot from the first set of plans. I know exactly what I want now and how I want to do it but the design is in my head, the only thing written down at this point are my load calcs and beam sizes. You guys probably think I'm nuts but this is how I work best.

jimdad07 · December 11, 2015, 10:28:33 AM

Finally brought the internet back into my house. Downloaded Sketchup so hopefully I'll figure out how to use it and get some drawings up for you guys.

jimdad07 · December 22, 2015, 02:58:45 PM

Still going, five more tie beams to cut on the mill and then the next largest members will be 10x10's. I have most of my brace stock cut and a few girts. Figured I'll keep milling until the weather gets worse and then I'll get back to cutting joinery. Going to run out of logs soon, saving up for the next load.

jimdad07 · December 27, 2015, 10:56:30 PM

Still plugging away on the tie beams, dodging rain but happy to have warmer weather. Here is today's work, another beam ready for wax and the sticker pile:

jimdad07 · January 15, 2016, 09:09:42 AM

Still going at it, finally started moving my tie beams inside my little shop to work on them. I have 6 to go then I'm starting on my posts. Going to have to get more logs soon. I sure am enjoying this project, wish I had more time to give it but I guess it'll happen at its own pace.

richhiway · January 17, 2016, 06:44:25 PM

really enjoy your posts. great job.

jimdad07 · January 21, 2016, 12:15:28 PM

Quote from: richhiway on January 17, 2016, 06:44:25 PM
really enjoy your posts. great job.

Thank you. I'm not posting as much now until I move into the wall posts, right now it would be redundant to keep showing the same beams over and over. Running low on logs and will start scrounging here pretty soon. My chain mortiser arrived yesterday, oh happy day for sure.