harvesting knots

mrbrb · October 16, 2013, 03:05:05 AM

Hello, New here, opening with a question:

What species of wood has the greatest concentration of consistently sized knots? I am creating a kind of 'wood product' whose surface is covered with hundreds of inlaid knots. I have been cutting each inlay individually with a chisel but this has become too time consuming (about 10 minutes per knot). Inlays are from 1/8 to 1/4" deep, averaging about 1" square.

What I'd like to do is use a router and jig to cut all of my inlay holes at a fixed size, and then inlay knots of a fixed size. My problem is that knot size varies drastically (Im getting most of these knots from the scrap bin).

So, I am looking for any suggestions for a densely knotted wood, with consistently sized knots.

I have a band mill I built recently, which I plan on using to mill knots out of my slabs etc. But I am looking for a more streamlined way of approaching this whole process.

Thanks and all the best!

Ianab · October 16, 2013, 05:08:25 AM

Interesting question, usually we are looking for wood with LESS knots. :D

But to answer your question, probably some of the softwoods like pine and cedar. And what you will want is open grown trees, or the top logs (with lots of branches left on them). Think about those open grown pasture cedars and that are nuisance trees in many places. That's probably what you should be looking at.

Trees growing in a forest will usually shed their lower branches early in their life, and grow more clear, knot free wood in the lower trunk. Open grown trees will retain more branches, and hence more knots.

Ian

thecfarm · October 16, 2013, 07:12:20 AM

mrbrb,welcome to the forum. Must want this to be on a wall in your house,coffe table??

WDH · October 16, 2013, 07:33:01 AM

White pine has knots in whorls, and is the traditional pine for "knotty pine paneling".

john_bud · October 16, 2013, 07:51:28 AM

Chinese elm has lots of side branchings too. It's a soft wood that is concidered a nuisance or weed tree.

mrbrb · October 16, 2013, 09:23:05 AM

Thanks for the suggestions-
Here are a few photos from my last attempt at this- as you can see I randomly spaced the inlays. This time, I would like to place them in a grid, with all knot - squares being the same size.

What you see here are mostly EWP and 'white cedar' knots. Not sure where I could get chinese elm- I'm located in connecticut.

Will post some more pictures as the project gets under weigh.

GAB · October 16, 2013, 11:16:35 AM

Mr brb:
You wrote: "So, I am looking for any suggestions for a densely knotted wood, with consistently sized knots."
Based on my sawing experience the size of the knot(s) is related to the size of the branch and is variable based on the tree specie, and the angle that it met the saw blade. Do you know anyone who might produce veneer that might be interested in, or would allow you to con him (or her) into veneering a piece of spruce, or balsam that had a lot of branches.
Welcome to the forum and wishing you the best in your endeavors. Gerald

mrbrb · October 16, 2013, 11:58:26 AM

GAB: The veneer option sounds pretty good. Ill look into some mills in the connecticut/ mass area. I wonder what happens to all of those knots that get chopped out of plywood stock at the plywood factory... that could provide an endless source of consistently sized knots. Do they rout out the knots, or do they just cut them out with a punch?

Thanks.

Ljohnsaw · October 16, 2013, 12:07:12 PM

Mrbrb,

The knots taken out of the plywood veneer is done with a cookie cutter thing and a press (saw it on "How Its Made"). What they are doing is not necessarily cutting out knots, but imperfections (holes, dropped knots, other damage). So, the cut out piece might not be a knot that you would want. Have you thought about routing circles or ovals with a template on both your knotty "donor" board and your "recipient" board? Seems like that would go real fast.

mesquite buckeye · October 16, 2013, 12:10:54 PM

Most any wood from the central core of just about any tree will be very knotty. If you could hook up with a portable sawmill guy in your area, I'm sure he could thin cut the central core any way you wanted to give you your knots.

Especially knotty in the middle- eastern redcedar, pin oak, shingle oak, cherry, elm.

mrbrb · October 16, 2013, 12:31:32 PM

Right on.. I'd use my own mill but am waiting on a new engine.

Weekend_Sawyer · October 16, 2013, 12:50:45 PM

Wow, those are some very cool looking boards!

Jon

Kansas · October 16, 2013, 01:00:59 PM

I think ERC would be the ticket. Get down in the wood aways on a good log, it turns into smaller knots.

Jeff · October 16, 2013, 01:19:47 PM

What is the structure in the last photo? Sculpture? It's awesome!

thecfarm · October 16, 2013, 02:05:16 PM

I want to know what that is and how it was made,what kind of wood?

jueston · October 16, 2013, 03:10:29 PM

it does look like an awesome sculpture... if it was a little smaller i could put it in the middle of my living room...

beenthere · October 16, 2013, 03:28:43 PM

QuoteWhat I'd like to do is use a router and jig to cut all of my inlay holes at a fixed size, and then inlay knots of a fixed size.

With this in mind, have you considered just cutting cross-sections of limbs? Remove the bark if preferred or not, and get the knot effect. Vary the species as desired.
Could even size the limbs on a lathe and use a hole saw (or router and template) to make the corresponding size hole to drop the limb cross-sections in about as tight as desired.
Just a thought....

POSTON WIDEHEAD · October 16, 2013, 04:45:03 PM

Quote from: Jeff on October 16, 2013, 01:19:47 PM
What is the structure in the last photo? Sculpture? It's awesome!

No, you can't put a Deer Stand on it. ;D

Jeff · October 16, 2013, 04:48:27 PM

I was thinking more like slits in it to hold antique chainsaws collection. Just stick the bars in random places. Actually that is a lowbrow use for what looks like high end art to me.

doctorb · October 16, 2013, 04:53:40 PM

I'd leave it just as is. A wonderful and, to me, original, work of art. Really cool.

POSTON WIDEHEAD · October 16, 2013, 05:19:22 PM

Do any of Y'all remember playing JACKS, with the little ball?
It reminds me of a Jack.

WmFritz · October 16, 2013, 06:31:28 PM

Quote from: mrbrb on October 16, 2013, 12:31:32 PM
Right on.. I'd use my own mill but am waiting on a new engine.

That three-man pipe wrench makes a handy Peavy.

mrbrb · October 16, 2013, 07:10:01 PM

Thanks for the knots ideas.. going to mine a bunch of pine slabs tonight.

Here are a few images of the process of making those sculptures - tetrapods- based on wave dissipating blocks used in coastal engineering.

You can see how that pipe wrench was being used...

Ljohnsaw · October 16, 2013, 08:07:06 PM

Quote from: mrbrb on October 16, 2013, 07:10:01 PM
<<snip>>

Here are a few images of the process of making those sculptures - tetrapods- based on wave dissipating blocks used in coastal engineering.

<<snip>>

I thought those were the anti-landing craft blocks used during WW2...

Cedarman · October 16, 2013, 11:36:22 PM

I am getting ready to send 4000' of cedar cants to a veneer mill. I am sure they would sell some veneer.
Let me know and I will PM you the company.

Ken · October 16, 2013, 11:41:48 PM

mrbrb

Very nice looking projects. Hats off to you.

LeeB · October 16, 2013, 11:59:52 PM

Wow, some drill bit you got there. Did you make it yourself?

Jeff · October 17, 2013, 08:22:45 AM

Okay, do I have to be the first to ask about the giant duck on a pallet?

thecfarm · October 17, 2013, 08:41:43 AM

Maybe it went to Wilton ME. I think there are a few around town like that. They are all diffeant painted.

mrbrb · October 17, 2013, 12:07:59 PM

thanks for the kind words-
regarding the drill bit, it is just a standard 1" metal cutting bit, welded to a 9' piece of rod. Figuring out how to drill that 9' hole straight took a lot of trial and error. Barefoot auger wandered way too much. Step bit was straight but slow. With this metal cutting bit, it took about 20 minutes per 9' hole.
regarding the duck, it is carved from a block of brownstone.

so now that I've got about 400 knots, need to figure out how to dry them without too much warping.
Thanks for all of the suggestions.

beenthere · October 17, 2013, 12:16:46 PM

That was quick.
From last evening to this morning, you now have a bucket with 400 knots.

From where did you collect them? They look to be about 1/4" thick.

Cedarman · October 17, 2013, 12:39:29 PM

Looks like you made a lot of knot holes.

jueston · October 17, 2013, 01:26:27 PM

I can't believe how centered that hole was after 9 feet.... wow...

beenthere · October 17, 2013, 02:24:01 PM

Likely staying in the soft juvenile core wood at the pith center is not that much of a problem if started right.

I'd think plugging up the bit with drilled wood means several withdrawals to clean it out.

That is quite an indexing rig used to make the different face cuts. Leaves some slabs that might be reassembled into some other form of art, but I don't know what it would be.. ;D

RynSmith · October 17, 2013, 03:44:15 PM

Quote from: beenthere on October 17, 2013, 02:24:01 PM
Leaves some slabs that might be reassembled into some other form of art, but I don't know what it would be..

We should hook up mrbrb with that artist (I think she was a she) who was looking for slabs not too long ago! ;D

Roxie · October 17, 2013, 06:01:32 PM

Quote from: Jeff on October 17, 2013, 08:22:45 AM
Okay, do I have to be the first to ask about the giant duck on a pallet?

That is one really awesome duck!!

Magicman · October 20, 2013, 10:27:08 PM

You certainly have some very interesting projects and ideas mrbrb, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

I do not know how to harvest knotholes, but my company name is Knothole Sawmill. :D