What type, and profile blades do you find the best performance in wide hard wood

[Kelvin]

Howdy all.  I know this has been brought up a billion times, but i wanted to be more specific.  What blade, pitch, set, hook, thickness would you use in wider cuts 14"-20" in harder woods like white oak?  I have a woodmizer LT-40 25 kohler, so i'm a little limited to the bigger, thicker blades, but maybe there is some magical combo out there i haven't found yet? 
Also i sharpen and set my own blades on a woodmizer sharpener and a dinosetter, so i wasn't wanting to switch settings and cams so i'm trying to get the perfect blade that will handle the upper widths without sacraficing the other cuts i do.  So i would think a 4 degree, .45 in 1 1/2" wide blade would cut wide stock the best, but slower on average stuff.  What would you do in my case?  I have people who want to buy my material in the wider sizes so i'm focusing on buying these logs.  The sharpening doesn't last long, maybe 200 bd ft till the engine starts lugging, and often the sawdust is spilling out on the board faces.  Must be heating the blade tips and loosing the edge?  I was looking at ordering some more blades from woodmizer but wanted to see what info was out there.  Maybe larger spacing in the pitch?  Smaller?  Which removes sawdust better?  Thickness?  Probably stay with 1 1/4" do to low hp, but maybe 1 1/2"?
Whats the word out there?  Thanks for taking the time,
Kelvin

[Brian_Rhoad]

I have a Breezewood mill with a 23HP Kohler. I run 1 1/4 x .042 blades. I have run 3/4" and 7/8" tooth spacing. I have tried most of the different blades. I have had good luck with Simonds, Timberwolfe and Lenox. For hard wood I sharpen at 8* hook and .020 set per side. I use these specs for all hard wood. I cut big logs and small logs with the same blades. I don't seem to notice any difference with log size. Right now I am using Timberwolfes. 1 1/4" x .042 - 7/8 tooth spacing and .020" set. I am cutting large Oak that is frozen. I don't think I would go to a 4* hook, 8* seems to work good for me. 2* makes a big difference. I use 10* for soft wood and can tell the difference on hard wood with a 10* blade. I get 2+ hours cutting time and over 500 bf before sharpening. I usually reset every other sharpening.If you are getting alot of sawdust left on the board, you may be running too much set. If the sawdust is loose on the log when you remove the board, your set is too wide. If the sawdust is packed, you don't have enough set.

[footer]

Kelvin,
It might not hurt to try a box of new blades either, I have found that every time a blade is resharpened, they stay sharp for a shorter period of time.  I have had quite a few blades that have been resharpened that wouldn't make 2 passes. One weekend I used up almost a half a box, 7 or 8 resharpened blades on about 400 bdft of walnut.

[Minnesota_boy]

Tom mentioned a while back that to do a great job of sawing that the blades have to be SHARP.  Not just sharp, but SHARP.  If you are only getting 200 BF between sharpenings and haven't hit any dirt, you haven't sharpened them enough.  Get a magnifying glass or a low power microscope and really look at the teeth.  Are the tops sharp?  How about the sides of the tooth?  Sharp tops are nice, sharp corners are crucial.  The corners of the tooth do the work of cutting the fibers, the top merely removes the chip already cut loose by the edges of the tooth.

[pineywoods]

I probably haven't tried them all, but I come close. Keep coming back to wood-mizer .042 with 12 degree rake and 25 thousands set. I re-sharpen my own, and grind the rake to 15 degrees. Don't put one of these on a 12 hp mill. Put one on a neighbors norwood and the whole mill shook like a wet dog. Now some folks will question the 15 degree rake, yeah I saw mostly dead syp, but the but cut on a swelled but lightening killed syp can get mighty hard.
Might not work on your mill, on my old 12 year old LT40 thats the best I have found so far.

[LT40HDD51]

Hey Kelvin, I'll try to not sound too much like a salesman here...  :D. First blade I'd recommend is the 1¼" 0.045 blades in hardwood/frozen profile (9° hook, and prob run about 18-20 thou set). The 4° will prob work well too, in the really wide stuff, but won't cut very fast.

Interestingly, the 1½" blades seem to take abuse better (defects in the wood, sawing speed...) but once they take off and dive they are harder to get back on track...

What I'd tell you is to take a few blades and do them all differently. Use 9° and 4° hooks, and sets from prob 16 thou up to maybe 22 thou. Then take em out to the mill and have at er  ;D. This is the only real way to figure out what works best in your situation.

...Also i sharpen and set my own blades on a woodmizer sharpener and a dinosetter, so i wasn't wanting to switch settings and cams so i'm trying to get the perfect blade that will handle the upper widths without sacraficing the other cuts i do...

Overall, I'd guess what I said at the top. Because you have yer own sharpening gear you have the option to tweak a few of the blades you have and see what works.

Kelvin,
...I have found that every time a blade is resharpened, they stay sharp for a shorter period of time. I have had quite a few blades that have been resharpened that wouldn't make 2 passes...

The WM blades have an induction hardening on the teeth (Doublehard). Every grinding takes some of that hardened steel off the top, after a few grinds you are back to the original steel. Then it won't stay sharp quite as long as when it was new. But a blade that is properly sharpened and set should always make more than 2 cuts in clean wood... I'd say do what MinnesotaBoy was sayin... ;)

[Kelvin]

Hey, thanks for everybody taking the time to give me some feedback.  I'll try some of these suggestions.  I'm already doing a little better everytime i look into trying to improve this effeciancy.  Probably 1 1/4" .045 with .018 set in a 9 degree sounds like the one that will do wide, without sacraficing  everything else.

[WH_Conley]

I like fast feed rates the same as everyone else, probably more than most. My wife says I would make a poor doctor beacuse I would have no "Patience", There is a difference in feed rate in small logs and large. Thje gullett of the blade will only handle so much dust. Wider the cut, slower the feed rate.

Opening a can of worms here, ya got a real high HP mill, it will only handle what the blade will?

Example: Will 50 HP put out 2 times as much as a 25 HP with the same blade.

[LT40HDD51]

...Opening a can of worms here, ya got a real high HP mill, it will only handle what the blade will?

Example: Will 50 HP put out 2 times as much as a 25 HP with the same blade.

No, not really. Like you said, the gullet can only handle so much sawdust. Once the sawdust fills the gullet it starts spilling out over and under the blade, pushing the back of the blade up or down causing wavy cuts.  :-\

On my mill (51 hp) I use the 13° blades with the really deep gullets in fairly clear softwoods and some hardwoods. The 13° hook angle and around 30 thou set makes it very aggressive and fast cutting, but not suitable for very hard woods. I have ground a few 13° blades back to 10° and reduced the set to around 22-25 thou for sawing really wide stuff, it still has the deep gullets for lots of sawdust but is not as aggressive so will cut denser woods.

Kelvin, you could apply the same idea to the 10° blades. Take a normal 1¼", 0.045, 10° blade and set your grinder to 9° (or even 8...). Grind them to 9° and maybe even deepen the gullets some more by dressing off the right side of the wheel a bit extra. Less aggressive like a 9° blade, but deeper gullets = more sawdust capacity for wider cuts.

[LOGDOG]

Kelvin,

   Great question. Glad to see you're so interested in keeping those blades set up right. I found a chart that may help you. Check out suffolk machinery / suffolk saw/ Timber Wolf blades chart for recommended set and hook angles for blades with given tooth spaces and woods of certain densities and width. All are factors. I recommend that you order their free video as well. They probably taught me the most of anyone about how to "fly a blade" through a log. Here's the link to the page: http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/set_hook_angles.asp

Hope it helps. I'd print it and put it next to your sharpener/ setter.

LOGDOG

[Kelvin]

So, what type pitch would we want for wide hard wood?  More or less teeth per inch?  3/4" or 7/8"?  I guess pine is geared for less teeth and hardwood for more, so 7/8"?
thanks for the taking the time,
Kelvin

[LT40HDD51]

7/8" shud work fine  ;)

[LOGDOG]

Kelvin,

  I haven't had great success with the 3/4 tooth spacing in wide cuts. I tried it just to see but I think most guys will tell you that the 3/4 spacing is more for resaw operations. What HP are you running on your mill? If it's 25 or less 7/8 should do. I've run a 1" spacing but I had a 85 HP Cummins Diesel pushing it. Notice the tiers of width on the chart? If you set a couple of blades up for the widest hardwood log that you have they will easily cut anything smaller in diameter. The reverse is not true though. I'd try 8 degree hook. Do you have a protractor so that you can make sure your 8 degree angle is correct? I bought a magnetic protractor at either Lowes or Home Depot. You can mount it on your sharpener head and as you tilt the head it will stay connected and indicate the angle on the dial. Not expensive but invaluable to me. Otherwise Suffolk sells a protractor too. If you need a link to either one let me know. Before I recommend a set, how wide of cuts will you be making (the widest)? Also, a tip, overset by about 2 to 4 thousandths first and then kiss sharpen the blade so that it is sharpened to the angle / set that the teeth will be cutting at. As long as you're not grinding hard, only kissing the teeth, the blade should stay uniformly set during the sharpening process.

  When I first got Suffolks video and blades I took one and set it up with a radically wide set and brought my hook angle down. I picked the biggest, ugliest, knarly oak log in my yard about 36" diameter and watched that blade slice off flat, wide boards one after the next. Couldn't believe it. You'll have success using their theory in the big, wide, ugly stuff. That video of theirs is definitely worth getting.

LOGDOG