Starting A sawmill

[Troglodyte]

Moved from the commerce section. (Tom)



sounds exactly like what I want, except 6 months too early >:(

[Kirk_Allen]

Welcome to the forum Troglodyte.

Sorry its too early for you. This is a great mill and if I didnt already have my LT40 I wood keep this one.  It has has several upgrades since purchased and is ready to go. 

For an extra $1000 the trailer goes with it! 

[Troglodyte]

Thanks, The wife & I are just going through the process of putting pencil to paper to set up a custom sawmill, kiln, millwork business.  Currently working in the computer field to pay the bills and keep benefits. 

The wife and I have a tax business that we started 3 years ago and should be going great guns this year.  Looking for something to do the rest of the year.

What I dont want to do is to get in over my head with debt, which I think is 2 strikes against me in the first go.
So, I am trying to figure out how much money I will need and see what I can do to have as much as possible before I start.

[Kirk_Allen]

Understand completely.  NO DEBT is my motto! 

You have found the right place to ask MANY questions regarding your goals in the milling business. You wont find a better site anywhere. 

Let me know if we can answer any questions for you.

Thanks

[Troglodyte]

you can answer a ton of questions.  about the only thing I have is a location (about 4 acres right on the interstate exit)
3 phase power is available right across the road, so I want to do everything electric.  I want to do most of my drying in a solar kiln, with DH kiln as backup for larger stock.

My questions would start with where do you get your raw material?  if so, what should I budget per BF for raw material (being conservitive)  I would much rather be conservitive here that to get in over my head and fail.

Besides a bandsaw, I am thinking of getting a resaw for most of the cutting (ie using the band saw to quarter the logs into cants(sp?) and then using the resaw for a majority of the sawing.  Am I crazy, (well, dont answer taht), if this is practical, what should I look for in a resaw and what should I budget.

other things (trucks/trailers/loaders and other support equipment???) 

I am thinking of doing custom mouldings as well.

Anyway, enough rambling.

[Kirk_Allen]

Troglodyte,

I would go to the sawmill and milling board and ask the question there.  That way the commerce section doesnt turn into a dicsussion board off the topic of the original thread.

I know DOZENS of folks will answer right away. 

[Troglodyte]

Troglodyte,

I would go to the sawmill and milling board and ask the question there.  That way the commerce section doesnt turn into a dicsussion board off the topic of the original thread.

I know DOZENS of folks will answer right away. 

Thanks, cut & Paste  :D

[Troglodyte]

Well, probably been asked a million times, but here is  my go of it.
The wife and I want to start a custom sawmill, kiln to supplement the tax business we have.  about the only thing I have is a location (about 4 acres right on the interstate exit)
3 phase power is available right across the road, so I want to do everything electric.  I want to do most of my drying in a solar kiln, with DH kiln as backup for larger stock.

My questions would start with where do you get your raw material?  if so, what should I budget per BF for raw material (being conservitive)  I would much rather be conservitive here that to get in over my head and fail.

Besides a bandsaw, I am thinking of getting a resaw for most of the cutting (ie using the band saw to quarter the logs into cants(sp?) and then using the resaw for a majority of the sawing.  Am I crazy, (well, dont answer taht), if this is practical, what should I look for in a resaw and what should I budget.

other things (trucks/trailers/loaders and other support equipment???)

I am thinking of doing custom mouldings as well.

[Mobilesawyer]

Hello Troglodyte:

You are correct the question has come up once or twice here.
For what it's worth I think you should be talking to your potential customers and asking them what they want (taking this with a grain of salt because were opinions are many oftem dollars are few). Start with one peice of equipment, usually the sawmill and test those markets to see if they are viable, you can always get more equipment or larger capacity later.
I would also search earlier posts for Starting a Sawmill topics and good luck.


Jeff

[Ron Wenrich]

Well, there are two ways of looking at it.  You can either start custom moulding first, then add the mill or start the mill first, then add the value added.  A lot depends on what's in demand in your area. 

Buying lumber may be a lot easier than locating logs.  You also might not have as much tied up in equipment with just mouldings versus a mill. 

You might want to check into that 3 phase electric.  I'm not sure how your REA works, but our local utility has a monthly hookup rate that must be paid, whether you use it or not.  We have found that generating our own is cheaper than buying.  Your situation could be much different.

Also, look at used equipment.  A lot cheaper than new. 

[flip]

Here's what I've done so far, sounds like what you are wanting to do.  I bought an Ebach DH kiln on Ebay for under a grand, includes fans and controller, used but still good.  Chamber will cost less than a grand.
We built our mill(would buy a Wood mizer or Timber king B20 if I had the $$) for about $5k with full hydraulics.  I have Dewalt table saw, jointer, small and large planer, shaper and getting band saw and dust collection and drum sander soon about 5 bills in that.  Logs are here and there, some off my uncles land some unfortunately by word of mouth.  I have a car trailer and electric winch to haul and load and bought a Stihl 44 and 31 for cutting.  For me at 29 this is a hobby and how I plan to build my house(trim and such).  I have had several people call me wanting me to cut for them for $$ but I am severely lacking time and not wanting to go into business right now ;) or buy insurance.   Long term plan is to get everything together, hopefully save a few $$ and buy a mill where I can get more production and see where it goes from there.  If you can get your wood cheap or free you're already ahead of the game.  First you need to READ READ READ the hades out of this site, every topic, every thread, every thing you can and LEARN :P  Just my .02 from what I've gleaned from being here

[Kirk_Allen]

Hey Flip, good to see a Jasper person on board.  We use to do the annual fire school live burns in Jasper. Neet town and great people.   

[DonE911]

Trog.

I'm just getting started as far as operating as a business is concerned.  I just want to echo the advice given earlier that you should read every post here.... even the ones that go off the subject are worth reading.  This forum is by far the best place going.

I started as a hobby, and just decided this is how I want to make a living.  Word is out that I have a mill and logs just appear from nowhere....  Most I have to go get so I got a trailer and ATV winch to load them up and go.  Some people thru word of mouth want me to come over and cut wood for $$$.  I placed one little add in the paper also and ran it for 3 weeks.... lots of calls and lots of free logs and a few $$$ jobs.  I've worked out a few trades for cutting also.. I'm going to AL to cut a wack of pine for a fella and no cash will exchange hands.... I will be getting a F250 in exchange for my cutting.   Cutting for a rancher down the road soon and I get a ready for the butcher steer instead of cash ( he's delivering and I'm pick'n up in butcher wrap) .... freezer will be happy and so will my gut.  I can't afford to do all trades, but somethings are as good as cash.

I bought a mill first... a chainsaw mill ... I used it for a while, but quickly found out it was to slow for a full time business.  I just got a Peterson swinger (luckily I had the cash ) and will soon start work on a solar kiln and shop.... I hope to add ( in about a year ) a logosol ph260 and start running flooring and mouldings.   I'm chopping firewood and will be selling kiln dried firewood next season.  I'd like a power splitter, but I haven't made enough to pay for one yet and I didn't budget for one.

I set myself a hard budget to get this business up and running.... I wont break the budget and I wont be making any payments.  I had the cash to get started and still make bills for a while....  I don't think I would have tried this if I had to finance it.....  I'm trying to get out of the rat race and taking on any debt would just keep me in it longer....  

[doublecut]

Hello Troglodyte:
Welcome to the forum.

If ya can there is the big show in Moultrie georgia Sunbelt agri expo where there will be lots to look at and live demos. Something to consider if ya can. As well the members here are a huge help with excellent suggestions.
Again welcome a board ! 8) 8)
doublecut

[Troglodyte]

Thanks all, sound advice all.  Going to talk to mill dealers and working to put pencil to paper. (wife being a bookkeeper wont do anything without a biz plan)  and we will definately need a hard budget

[SW_IOWA_SAWYER]

Long Winded but honest and hopefully helpful

I have a sawmill that I saw logs for my own use, and sell from time to time. If you plan on doing this as a business you will need to have a steady supply of good quality logs. That will most likely mean buying from a logger or loggers. I have gotten wood from people for free but usually not great material (There are exceptions) and if you are selling to folks they want good quality lumber. The farmers who have timber have become aware that the timber they have is becoming more valuable. We are also getting many loggers from the Mississippi river area that are logging here because of the intense competition for logs there.

I think you will need to make sure you have the support equipment, as that is really the more important part. The sawmill is the easy part, it is the support equipment that you really need. The solar kiln will work but it is weather dependent and somewhat slow. If I was going to make a living at it I would steer more toward the custom millwork type business. There is a site called Timbergreen something or other that has a guy who mills his own lumber and then puts in the wood flooring. That seems like he has the right idea. Something you can't buy from a dozen other guys who can do it cheaper then you as they have less overhead etc.... something different.

I would do a lot of research on who you think your market will be. It may be quite an eye opening bit of information to you. In our area there are several other mills that I have discovered and they all have the same kind of material Oak, Walnut, Ash, and Elm. In order to be effective you need to find an unfilled demand that you can capitalize on. I know after doing this for several years I would probably not try to do the sawmilling in order to make a living. It is hard work and I really like the sawing part but that is only a small part of it. If you can make a go of it you will have earned it the old fashioned way "Hard Physical Work". I think the key is do the research, well that and living in a part of the country that has more timber  :D :D :D

[Troglodyte]

Alot of guys have the same thing, too few of them advertise it.  I now know that there are several small mills in sw iowa.  But last year I would have been hard pressed to find any when I was looking.  There are tons of people paying through the nose in Omaha & DSM for wood that I think would drive an hour for better quality at (slightly) lower prices.

I may be wrong, wouldnt be the first time, wont be the last,
thats why we are doing the research.

[SW_IOWA_SAWYER]

I had the same thought, but you will be hard pressed to compete on a price based factor. The places in Omaha, HWH, MWW,and the like have S4S good quality hardwood. It costs more that is true but it is high quality lumber. That why it pays to find a niche that you can market a product they don't have. The otherthing I have found is folks will drive for a bargin but it has to be a real bargin (read just about giving it away)
Just a quick example

White Oak logs .50 to .75 per bdft in the timber
Delivery say .25 bdft  maybe higher if fuel prices rise
So far you have a buck in it
Cutting it say .25 per bdft blades gas (more if you have a big mill payment)
Drying say .10 per bdft
Straight edge plane S4S say .35 (probably on the low side)

So you are at 1.50 ish give or take

I sell Oak at 2.00 a bdft
That is a slim profit margin
I used to go to Dunlap great price $2.35 for red oak but it is 120 miles up and back and that made it not cost effective. If I had a cabinet shop then that would be different but the typical buyer is only buying enough for one project 50-100 bdft. The sawmill business is mostly word of mouth. Most don't advertise cause it has poor results from past experiences.

I am not trying to discourage you at all, I guess I am just giving my .02 worth having walked the walk.

I think I remember reading here on the forum someplace:
How to make a million dollars in the sawmill business (Start with 2 million) :D :D

What ever you decide Good Luck!!