Possible barn restoration project.

[Normando]

Hi Piston,

I am the other guy who took that timber framing class with you and Rich last August(2011).  I've been following you post and you have a great project there.  If you ever need a hand, I live in New Hampshire and certainly could some additional experience.

Norm

[Jim_Rogers]

Welcome Norm.... great to have you here at last....

Jim Rogers

[Shotgun]

Hi Piston,

I would have made this request directly but you personal message access for this forum appears to be off.  Look forward to hearing from you. 

I think that you need to hit some minimum number of posts before you can send PM's.  Perhaps 50.  Just my assessment.

Norm (Shotgun)

[Piston]

Hi Piston,

I am the other guy who took that timber framing class with you and Rich last August(2011).  I've been following you post and you have a great project there.  If you ever need a hand, I live in New Hampshire and certainly could some additional experience.

Norm

Hey Norm!  Well, at my pace, you'll be following this project for a LONG time!  :D  Where abouts in NH are you?  My land is in Alton. 

Have you done any projects since the workshop? 

I've been reading a book called "Renovating Barns, Sheds, and Outbuildings"
It's pretty good for basic ideas but the best thing about it so far is it goes over jacking up buildings and replacing (or installing) foundations in old, broken down buildings (a lot like this one).  It doesn't seem as daunting of a task as I first thought. 
From what I've learned on this forum, and in the book as well, is that I really need to get a solid foundation in for the barn as the first step, then I can start working my way up.  I'm thinking about doing a continuous foundation under all 4 walls, by doing it 4'-8' at a time. 
I could jack up a section of the barn, dig down to below the frost line, form and pour a footing, then form and pour the foundation wall, then once that dries move down to the next 'section'. 
It seems like this method will take a long time, and a lot of work, but it sounds like it's the best way to put a good, solid foundation under the barn. 
If it weren't for the chimney in this barn, I would really think hard about dissasembling the entire barn and reassembling it on a new foundation.  :

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hey Piston,

I sent a private message, did you get it?  Looks like you are learning a lot.

[Holmes]

Hi Piston:  Have you considered using cement blocks for the foundation walls?  Pour the, a, footing, build a block wall with mortar, pour another footing, build more block wall.  You could possibly do 1 whole end wall with 2 corners for starters, then a back wall then an end wall then a front wall.  I will tell you this much a mason will put the blocks up in a few hours, it may take you a few weeks.  Thats what happened with me.

[Piston]

Dana,
I haven't really considered it, only because I've never done any type of block work so I'm not familiar with it.  I've poured footings before and helped in pouring a foundation, so I'm semi comfortable with it.  Is block foundation work much harder than pouring forms? 
I'd be interested in using block now that I think of it, because it could solve some problems that I may have with either mixing my own cement or having a cement truck deliver it.  Is a block wall foundation cheaper to build? 

I suppose if I can learn how to restore a barn, I can learn how to build a block foundation  :
I do remember reading one of Magicmans' threads on an addition that he built and he used block foundation, he made it look easy but that may be because he is good at it  :D

Is block foundation for something like this procect, better/worse/indifferent?   ???

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hi Piston,
 
I want to thank you for the willingness to help me with my research.  At this juncture, however, I think I would be doing you a disservice if I didn't aid you further with your project.  As you have noted from one of my web links, some of the folks I consult with, do anywhere from 15 to 30 full size, (40'x80') barns a year.  When you do that many barns a year, you learn what is faster and what isn't.  This coming year we look like we may have to double that number.

When I was reading one of your threads, I realized you had already started to come to the logical conclusion, which seems to evade many folks who try and tackle a project like this.  As you surmised, it is actually easier to take the barn down and restore it than try and do it in place.  You have better access to the frame for restoration, accessing the timbers can be much more thorough, it is safer for the most part to work on the frame while it is down, and it is overall, much quicker.  Unless you have a restoration, (house or barn,) that will only include the sill components of the frame and you are trying to also save interior, roof, siding, etc., it doesn't make since to raise the structure on cribbing.  Deconstruction is a museum, (industry,) standard.

I would love to here more about your future timber framing plans for your house.  Will you cut it your self? Would you ever consider using you grandfather's barn as part of your home.  If you do dismantle the barn, you then have the option of being able to work on the foundation in an easier format or even relocating the barn to a new/better location.  If you have stone, I would avoid concrete.  It is not the wonder product many think it is.  Should you use concrete, make sure to separate the sills from the concrete so they don't set directly on it.

Look forward to the update.

Regards,

Jay

[Piston]

Jay,
Thanks for the input! 

I have thought about using this frame as part of our future home, and I haven't ruled it out.  However, I don't really know how I would incorporate it and I'd have to talk to the framer on that for his advice. 

One thing I thought of was if I did have to take down the frame (or if I decided to rather) and the chimney came down in the process, was using the bricks from the chimney in the new home for something.  I also thought of using this frame as my garage in the new home, if I decided to take it down to restore it. 

Ultimately though, my favorite idea so far, is to restore the barn where it sits, and eventually turn it into a combination woodshop/motorcycle storage/and man cave of sorts  ;)  You know, somewhere to keep a good supply of homebrews and top shelf whiskey that I can relax with near the woodstove  ;D

It will be an ongoing project and may never be "finished", but I do hope to have some fun and learn a lot along the way.   ;D

I welcome any suggestions  ;)

[Holmes]

One of the advantages to fixing up the barn is then having a camp, cabin, barn, that you and the family can use whenever needed right thru the house build.
Many houses are sitting on 8x8x16" cement blocks. You will need the footings then build the block walls up from the footings.  Looks like a 8x8x16 block is around $1.50.    Maybe there is a stack able, pinned concrete block system that can be assembled without mortar. I know they make them for retaining walls. Just a thought.

[Normando]

Hey Piston,

I'm in Goffstown which is about an hour southwest of your place.  I did end up building a 12 x16 shed, but I stick built it.  I know, I know, I should have timber framed it.  Old habits die hard.  Next one will be a timber frame.

Norm

[thecfarm]

Don't lay block like magicman did. he don't need any footings where he is. Lucky him.

[Piston]

Ya I think I remember MM only dug down about 6" or so and laid the block right in the dirt.  I think I need to go down about 4' for my footings. 

[thecfarm]

I was wondering, could you dig down a ways like a couple feet and put in some gravel and than some cement blocks? Like skip every other one? I have no idea if that would work or not.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Sorry, no photo uploaded :-\ :-[

[Jay C. White Cloud]

 Hay Piston,  8)

I got it figured out, thanks for all the help!!! Now for the post I tried placing 3 hours ago:

When you get reading to start thinking foundations, let me know.  There are some aussume traditional option avaliable to you, if you would like and some hybrids, as well.  Keep us informed of your progress and I'll keep posting pics as I figure this thing out.

Till later,

Jay

Ignore the  : man behind the frame post holding the skinny framing square,  I think he might be a little strange. :D


 
Brings a knew meaning to "solid as a rock."

[Piston]

Jay,
It looks like your half way there, you got the photos uploaded to your gallery. 

When you reply to a post, click the link "click here to add photos to post" directly under where you type your reply, then go to your gallery, then click the picture you want to insert in your post.
There should be a box that says "click here to add photo to your post" then, you guessed it, click that  ;D

If it doesn't work, you can copy and past the url into the post, it should show up like this...

[Jay C. White Cloud]

I've tried to do that  :D  ???  :-[  still didn't work. I can build timber frames and restore barns, but I can't seem to do what you did to save my life  :D ???  I'll keep try'n.  Thanks for trying to help!

[Piston]

Jay,
Try going back to your last post, click the "edit" button in the top right, and then try pasting this link.

[TYPE "img" here]https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30330/DSC01651%7E0.JPG [/img]

Except, delete where I wrote "TYPE "img" here" and just put the img in that spot, between the brackets, see if that works.

[shinnlinger]

Ok Jay Im intrigued with your cement scarf joint (is that a cement scaf joint?)and I'm a half hour from Thetford (Just south of Lyme NH)

Any I can check out?

[jueston]

Ok Jay Im intrigued with your cement scarf joint

me too.... we need more details.... we need more pictures....we love pictures...

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hello Shinnlinger and Jueston,

As you can tell from my dialogue with Piston, I'm just now getting the knack of this forums idiosyncrasies.  I will post more pictures as I get better at it, (and have them and the time to do it ???)

If you check out some of my other posts, you will find that I'm partial to traditional methodologies, over modern attempts at reinventing the wheel.  Tech is great when applied with forethought, but not just for the sake of it.  Concrete is one of those modern "do all," products that we see being employed everywhere, without much thought to whether we could/should do something more traditional, (often better ;).)

The scarf joints you see are traditional type of "tsugi" carved in granite, (salvage curb stock from DHMC in hanover, provided by Simpson Granite Quarries,) The first one took me 7 day to figure out, template, and then carve; the second only took 7 hours, it was loads of funnnn!!!  I love carving (jointing,) stone as much as timber! 8)

Send me a private message, if you would like to come visit.  You will have to promise to take pictures and post them ;D

Regards,

Jay

[shinnlinger]

So you carved granite and the timbers!?!?!?!?!?  Very impressive   

Concrete is the second most widely used substance on earth.   The first is water so there is a lot of it out there and when you consider all the energy (and the water!) it takes to mine the ingredients, truck them to a plant, make the stuff and then truck it to a job site its a lot!!!

BUt it also lasts a pretty long time so with can be a good choice, but granite is great.  But then again I live in the Granite state so I'm partial.....

Fantastic work!