Granberg mill... anyone using a 661 and wish they'd gone with the 880?

[Wal Nut]

Forgive me if this is in the wrong forum, I don't see many chainsaw milling posts here??

I'm looking to do some occasional milling of mostly live oak/hickory/pecan on a limited basis. I'm having more and more customers/referrals of my woodworking gig asking me if I'm interested in trees on their properties and I'm growing keen on taking advantage of the bounty since I love making sawdust. I have contacts with sawmills but the transportation is a killer. 

Not looking to get into doing this as a full-time or regular gig but see myself milling 1-2 logs/month, some of which are over 30" at the butt ends. 

Is a 661 going to be up to the task - especially with the live oak - or should I bite the bullet, sell a kidney and step up to the 880? 

[Magicman]

mostly live oak/hickory/pecan

WOW, you picked the three devils of the devils   to saw !! 

Yes, this is the proper place for chainsaw milling but since I don't do it, I just read and watch.

[Wal Nut]

mostly live oak/hickory/pecan

WOW, you picked the three devils of the devils  to saw !!  

Yes, this is the proper place for chainsaw milling but since I don't do it, I just read and watch.

Magicman, I didn't pick them... they picked me! Trust me I'd rather mill pine but nobody'll buy the stuff I make out of it. 

[Magicman]

I understand since I only saw what my customers have, but devils are still devils. 

[TKehl]

30" isn't all that big.  What's stopping you from getting a trailer and hauling to a mill.  It sounds like your time would be more valuable doing the woodworking instead of chainsaw milling, but I also understand doing what you like!

[sawwood]

 I have a Stihl 460 that I run a 42" bar on our chainsaw mill. I cut mostly 36 to 40" white oaks down to size for our saw mill.
 Now 460 is a bit small for that size but have had no trouble cutting them I just go slow and only make two cuts then  change
 out the chain. I have two soft maples to cut that are 34" by 8' long to mill if the weather will get better.

 Sawwood

[doc henderson]

I bought a 661 and it would not start half the time.  two visits to the dealer and he took it back with credit towards an 880.  It is heavy, but go big or go home.  it starts easy, not as powerful as I imagined but cutting with a 59 inch bar takes power, and it is not broke in yet per some on the forum.  they may have the bugs worked out, but the 3 position starter seems to be more finicky than the old 4 position.  remember, more efficient does not mean more power, but consumes less gas for the job at hand.  I hope Stihl is not turning their stuff to trash.  I own over 10 saws from them.

[Brad_bb]

When chainsaw milling, there's no substitute for more power. Do you want the biggest powerhead you can. With that said, this type of chainsaw milling is tough work. There is a WM1000 Mill about an hour from me. If the cost was reasonable I would haul the larger logs to them to slab. That is a very wide band Mill.  It would be faster and easier, but unfortunately they charge a dollar a board foot. For example I have an ash log that is 900 board feet Doyle scale. It would take them an hour maybe to slab that logs at most. But they would charge me $900. That's quite expensive in my book and put me on the fence for chainsaw milling it myself. That log would take me 8-12 hours.  It averages about 42 inches in diameter.  

[booman]

I use the MS880 on my chainsaw sawmill and I cant imagine anything less for the bigger logs.  If you have time you can watch Ebay or Craigslist for one because people buy them not realizing what a beast they are.  I bought one that had been used maybe a couple of times for a good price.

[shelby78]

The more power the better but having a good chain is the most important. I run twin 660's myself and would not have it any other way.. If you have a friend that would help 2 powerheads are soo much nicer. Not just speed but quality of cut.

I video myself and adjust angles, raker depth, etc to see true in cut performance. The last black walnut I slabbed was 40 inches wide at the small end and 48 wide at the fat end. Just a hair over 8ft long and under 7mins a cut.

A single 660/661 was just to slow for me. The 880 is a bit different as it isn't as much of a jump in power as you would hope over the 661. I had/have the first 661 in my area years ago but still prefer my 660's. I own a tree service and cut 5 days a week.

[Brad_bb]

Those two 660's add up to 1320!  Two heads are better than one.  I bought a late 70's/early 80's Stihl 090 off ebay about 8 years ago.  It I brought it to the Stihl dealer and had it done, then the needle adjustments wouldn't make it run right.  Turned out to be a vacuum leak in the case and I had the Stihl dealer mechanic re-gasket the case.  So I ended up spending $600-$800, but even with the purchase I was still ahead.  Runs great now.  

Remember that the cut time (7-10 inches per minute) is only part of it.  After each cut, you need to fuel, oil, move the mill back to the start, pull the slab off and sticker it on a stack, clean dust off and shovel if needed.   Then drink some water and rest for a few.  So Each cut is more like 1/2 hour at minimum.

[esteadle]

I have a new-ish Stihl 661 that I'm using with a 36" wide cut Granberg Mill that I picked up this summer. I have about a dozen big logs through this mill set up so far. I also ran a MS 880 with a 36" bar, but not with a chainsaw mill. I intended to use the 880 for chain saw milling (CSM) but got separated from it before I could do that. But I did use it to "halve" logs lengthwise (vertically) when we were doing a couple jobs back a few years and it was pretty good at that. There is a big difference between these saws. 

Granberg's Alaskan mill models seem to have an "edge" around 36" width size, and making a decision about going a little bit wider, but having to go up to a much more expensive (and heavy) saw is tough. The 661 is about 700 cheaper brand new, but you give up the option to go wider than about 36". I checked a lot of other options out including a custom bar, but in the end, I did end up with the Alaskan 

The 661 runs faster chain speed, as it has a larger sprocket. The 880 is a lugger saw that pulls a chain slower but stronger. The 880 is going to take a .404 chain making big chips and more sawdust, and consequently fewer boards. The 661 can run 3/8" chain which is thinner and takes less HP to run, and matches up with the smaller saw's HP better. 

The wood you plan to cut is tough. No other way to say it. You are going to lose edge and dull your blades on those woods. As you move through the log, the working edge of the saw tooth will dull and round over, and that requires more HP and more manpower to muscle the tooth into the wood to cut it. I sharpen my chain after ever other cut when I'm running hardwoods, and I'd want to sharpen on every cut if doing some of the harder stuff like Hickory we get around here (havent' cut Hickory with this particular mill though).

I like my 661 with a 42" bar that gives me a 36" cut. This setup is nice and portable and I can run it by myself. But I prefer to have a helper on the other side, who can lever the bar forward when I get all of the bars width into the big part of the wood and things start to get hot and heavy. (He also remembers to turn on the aux-oiler so I don't burn up the bar ;))

Pushing a big wide saw through a log takes a lot of back muscle. Or, one of those fancy Winch setups they offer as an option. Think about getting one if you don't have a crazy buddy to talk into doing this with you.

To me, the 880 seems to be the saw you need if you are going to make your dreams come true. You could get away with a 661 up to 36" or so, but not with the wood you plan to cut and not at the width you expect. With those hard woods, your chains are going to be dull all the time and you will need to really push the saw hard and wear yourself out and wear your saw out. I would think you will need the extra torque of the 880 to keep the saw moving in that wood. I know with the 661, I can easily bog it once I'm deep in the cut, and the chain is dulling. Slow and steady is what finishes the cut. 

Search all forums for "CSM" and you'll find more threads to read about it. 

[Wal Nut]

The more power the better but having a good chain is the most important. I run twin 660's myself and would not have it any other way.. If you have a friend that would help 2 powerheads are soo much nicer. Not just speed but quality of cut.

I video myself and adjust angles, raker depth, etc to see true in cut performance. The last black walnut I slabbed was 40 inches wide at the small end and 48 wide at the fat end. Just a hair over 8ft long and under 7mins a cut.

A single 660/661 was just to slow for me. The 880 is a bit different as it isn't as much of a jump in power as you would hope over the 661. I had/have the first 661 in my area years ago but still prefer my 660's. I own a tree service and cut 5 days a week.

Shelby78 I have to hand it to you, I had not thought of this option at all. 

[charles mann]

When chainsaw milling, there's no substitute for more power. Do you want the biggest powerhead you can. With that said, this type of chainsaw milling is tough work. There is a WM1000 Mill about an hour from me. If the cost was reasonable I would haul the larger logs to them to slab. That is a very wide band Mill.  It would be faster and easier, but unfortunately they charge a dollar a board foot. For example I have an ash log that is 900 board feet Doyle scale. It would take them an hour maybe to slab that logs at most. But they would charge me $900. That's quite expensive in my book and put me on the fence for chainsaw milling it myself. That log would take me 8-12 hours.  It averages about 42 inches in diameter.  

And that is why im building my wide cut mill. The wm1000 guy quoted X$, then when i was ready, quoted me a price nearly 2x more than 1 month prior. Granted that was still cheaper than another guy in the area, but i figured doubling the price in a month means they dont want my business. 
At least i can take pride in the build and my mill will be able to handle bigger trees than the 1000 can handle. 

[ESFted]

I have a new 661 and 36" Granberg mill.  It cuts 28" cherry like butter.  If it starts to bog down on oak and other harder woods, I'll get a dual head bar and put my MS460 on the other end.  That should handle everything available to me in this area.

[olcowhand]

I use a 661 that I bought new on my Granberg, and I have no problems with it. I run it in Beech and Maple up to 28"-29". The oiler keeps up, but I think I would have to supplement if I went bigger. I rigged up one of those "Fancy winches to act as my crazy buddy" (BTW, it can't be that fancy if yours truly can get it mounted and functional in an hour with help from YouTube), and it takes about 90% of the "Hard" out of the work. Using it optimizes the saw's power, as the saw pretty much will tell you when you're being too aggressive.
In my wood, I can mill a 125" slab in about 4 minutes, then like Brad says: Stack the slab, refuel, reset and get back at it.
Steve

[offrink]

How do you refuel using a dual head saw while still in the cut?

[shelby78]

How do you refuel using a dual head saw while still in the cut?

Typically I don't. I never ever stop in the cut unless I absolutely have to (bear attack, forest fire, etc). This comes back to cut quality... That said, you fill the exact same as both saws gas/oil ports face up...
It drives me nuts when guys starts and stop in the cut and make a big ridge, next pet peeve is guys rocking the saw back and forth (typically single ended bars guys that are getting tired/dull chain) making tons of weird lines in the wood. I know it will be planed after but why make it look worse for the customer or require more material removal for bad technique.


 

[shelby78]

Shelby78 I have to hand it to you, I had not thought of this option at all.

A lot of the longer bars already come set-up for dual heads. If your impatient (like me) and you want something in stock you may end up with a dual head bar. You can buy a helper handle and run a single head on a dual bar until you get a second saw if you want to start slower cost wise. I already have quite a few 066/660/661's so it was easy for me to go dual.

A long bar single head should probly use a aux oiler (more money), if you buy a helper handle because of dual head bar but one saw (more money).

[Wal Nut]

Shelby78 I have to hand it to you, I had not thought of this option at all.

A lot of the longer bars already come set-up for dual heads. If your impatient (like me) and you want something in stock you may end up with a dual head bar. You can buy a helper handle and run a single head on a dual bar until you get a second saw if you want to start slower cost wise. I already have quite a few 066/660/661's so it was easy for me to go dual.

A long bar single head should probly use a aux oiler (more money), if you buy a helper handle because of dual head bar but one saw (more money).

I liked your idea so much I picked up a 661 over the weekend and plan on finding another to copy your setup. The longer cannon bars are $$ but if you can find a pair of 661's at a reasonable rate the whole package comes to about the same total as a new 880 with the 59" setup. Heck I have a 441 and could use it and the 661 together and have a ton more power than a single 880. Lots of possibilities with that setup.
I appreciate you posting the info, it was a big help. Great info!

[charles mann]

how does 1 operate a dual head saw by themselves? a cable throttle for the other saw, or a dual cable connected to both saws with 1 throttle lever? 

[mredden]

OP's post could be mine except I have a Husqvarna 390xp and wish I had gone 3120. I also mill live oak and pecan, along with some red oak (and ERC when I can get my hands on it). The pecan (bitternut hickory) which I can get easily generally runs about 28-32 inches.

Cedar: no problem

Red oak: No problem.

Live oak: That stuff is demonic. Hard as nails, full of sand, and a lot of twist. Heck, just bucking the dirty, nasty, fern-encrusted limbs is bad enough. Basically, I can't mill two wide, live edges on big wood. I can only cut about 24 inches comfortably and all the logs that come available around here are much larger.

Pecan: This is what I'm cutting most of. I'm ok with my 88ccs up to about 28 inches using a 36 inch bar. Can do up to 30" but that doesn't leave much "wiggle room" (Yeah, I know "wiggle" is not good for cut quality, but I need to have a little bit of play for odd bumps). I have a 42 inch bar that I break out occasionally but I don't like using it and am probably not doing my saw any favors even using a nose oiler.

I have considered trading my 390XP but I love the saw and the dealer has a high price on the 3120xp so I would still be paying $750.00 on the trade. Have also considered keeping the 390 and buying a Chinese 070 clone. Unfortunately, I'm no mechanic, so I would be taking a huge risk since nobody around here will work on the clones. Have also considered buying a big bore Holzfforma (98cc) that has been worked on by a trustworthy saw mechanic. I can get it for less than the $750.00 trade difference and still have my 390XP for smaller stuff and non-mill cutting. But, does the 10 extra ccs help that much?

Decisions, decisions. I can't afford to keep the 390 and buy a 3120.

EDIT: I guess if I buy the big bore Holzfforma, I could go double head with my 390xp when needed.

[mredden]

Shelby78 I have to hand it to you, I had not thought of this option at all.

A lot of the longer bars already come set-up for dual heads. If your impatient (like me) and you want something in stock you may end up with a dual head bar. You can buy a helper handle and run a single head on a dual bar until you get a second saw if you want to start slower cost wise. I already have quite a few 066/660/661's so it was easy for me to go dual.

A long bar single head should probly use a aux oiler (more money), if you buy a helper handle because of dual head bar but one saw (more money).

What are the tuning issues if I choose to "mis-match") by getting a big bore 660 (98cc) clone to go dual head with my 390xp (88ccs)? Do they need to be closely-tuned on rpms or does that not matter?

[Jcald327]

This was going to be a thread for me not too long ago.  And still might need to be.  I'm kind of at a cross roads with a 66in dual head bar and alaska mill, a 395xp and now a lucas mill with slabber attachment, I'll have to do some comparing as to how much faster a 27 horse slabber cuts, but the thought of being able to do the vertical cuts with the lucas and slab the boards off and the question is should I take the 30 min or so to swap to the slabber or keep the alaska handy so I can slab with that.  Let's me get wider than 8 inch boards if need be, without flipping and double cutting (which only gives you 1 wide board per layer anyhow).  Just dont really want to spend another 12-1800 buying a second powerhead, but a 3-400 Chinese clone isn't out of the question.

[offrink]

The reason I asked about how to refuel is I use an 880 and cut slabs that are up to 68" wide (mostly are 50-65" and typically 10-12' long. I don't see how you could cut that on one tank of fuel. Mostly they are oak or other hardwood but also have done some willow and basswood which is much easier. Some slabs, like a down 5 year 50+" burr oak, took 3-4 tanks of fuel but that was when we were first leaning.