Using grid power for cranking

moodnacreek · February 16, 2021, 07:17:42 PM

Don, I left the saw running alongside the log one time to go help a customer. When I came back there was quite a racket in the mill with the saw going nuts. What happened was a dead knot fell out against the saw. It blistered up a blue spot but when that happens there are actually 3 of these spots. The saw would still run ok but I had it hammered anyhow by a new guy. He got it nice and flat but left it full of tension like they often will. A saw will run like that but it will be very touchy because if you touch any thing [with the saw body] or get your filing a little off, whatever, that saw will be waving at you. It took another saw man 2 days to get all that tension out and have a flat plate but it runs very good now. Sometimes a saw with high spot can do just fine with 5/16" teeth and a bit of extra lead.

Rigg · February 17, 2021, 07:24:13 AM

I got some group 31's from Rural King last year for $79. I'm not sure how long they last though. My last pair of Exide's in my track loader lasted from 2011 to last fall so I doubt they'll beat that.

Napa was doing oil special's for 8.99/gal or so about this time of year. Also Rural King had a mail in rebate on Mobil Delvac 1300. After the rebate it was about $25 for 5 gallons. I stocked up a year or so ago so I'm not sure what the current price is but I'd imagine they still have the mail in rebate.

farmfromkansas · February 17, 2021, 12:15:58 PM

Rigg, is Rural King a farm store? Here we have TSC and Orsheln.

mike_belben · February 17, 2021, 01:49:46 PM

Yeah. They came in last year and set up right across from TSC and are waaay better. I tried not to go to TSC before and have almost no reason to now. Still get propane and saw stuff from the co-op right next door to both of them.

Deka makes the hardest to kill batteries i have ever encountered. Made by east penn. That said, all lead acid batteries still need maintenance. "Maintenance free" is a bold-faced lie. And sealed lead acid means "cannot be maintained." Designed for throwaway at the first deep discharge. Only buy batteries with 6 caps exposed. They may be under the sticker. Its a lot less of a chore when there are 6 screw caps right there.

Joe Hillmann · February 17, 2021, 03:00:47 PM

Quote from: Don P on February 15, 2021, 06:36:14 PM
I was looking at those carts last night wondering if they had the oomph. It SEEMS like it would work ;D.

I did get 2 good enough batteries hooked to it temporarily today. It had been a year, or maybe two since it had run, I had disconnected the fuel tank to move it all in so wasn't really optimistic but lo and behold 3 short cranks of a few seconds each, this thing has no glow plugs or air heat and it was about freezing temp, she lit right off 8). The tire I have on the saw mandrel to reverse rotation and "gear" it down needs balancing but it sawed a smallish pine log well, woohoo! I need to change oil (almost $100 for 5 gals today ) then hook the suction back up, get the exhaust up through the roof, put a full set of teeth in the saw and then try some healthier logs to see if it has the traction to run this way. Big diesel, turbo whine and no bog, it's no 35 hp massey but I think it'll do.

Do you have any pictures of your tire transmission set up? I ask because I recently build a 3 pint winch using a tire rubbing on a spinning shaft to reduce the speed. When I was building it I was looking all over the internet to find pictures of similar set ups to see if it would work but couldn't find a a single picture of that method being used.

farmfromkansas · February 18, 2021, 09:35:09 AM

About TSC, local news announced this morning that TSC bought Orsheln F&R this morning. So guess we need a new company to come in for competition.

moodnacreek · February 18, 2021, 10:41:55 AM

Back in the day there where stone crushers run off old cars. Where the spread of the crusher flywheels and the car rear end matched, you guessed it, they backed the rear tires up against the crusher. They also made up 'wind' governors to keep the rpm constant. No computers back then.

Rigg · February 18, 2021, 01:37:41 PM

Quote from: farmfromkansas on February 17, 2021, 12:15:58 PM
Rigg, is Rural King a farm store? Here we have TSC and Orsheln.

Yes, they moved in here not long ago, like Mike said. I've never heard of Orsheln. We lost our local NAPA a little while back so kind of put a crimp on me.

Don P · February 18, 2021, 06:20:17 PM

Yeah I was sorry to see them change hands and then close. I've been going to CarQuest in Sparta, usually good but that's where I got smoked on oil the other day. Thanks for the Rural King tip, I'll hit em up next time I'm in Wiffle.

I stomped the 8" dust pipe and got it to clear the feed pulleys and got it temporarily hooked back up. Then added some gold oil and fired up for a couple more frozen pine logs. The first small one did fine then I got into a larger one and the mill slipped like crazy. I tried belt conditioner on it but that didn't help so I dropped the tire pressure, pulled up closer hoping to get a bigger patch of rubber in contact and had let too much pressure out. I didn't have a compressor down there and was about cold so quit for the day. The tire is very old so that doesn't help but I might be barking up the wrong tree. The owner of the tire shop drag races, I'll see if he has an old sticky tire of the right size.

@Joe Hillmann here's some pics of the setup. The reason for this is I needed to reverse the engine rotation and gear down.
First pic is from the tailgunner position, as you can see I need suction hooked up :D. Oh, and if you have a Belsaw without the moodnacreek outboard feed, thread a spare feed belt in and wire it to the frame around the mandrel when you have to change, buys you a free change later. That's it on the rail in front of the tire.

This is from the offside, you can see the pines in the background, not large to be causing trouble already. You can see the chains and come-alongs I'm using to pull it tight for now.

Close up, The pto end of the engine with its 12x12 flat belt pulley snugged up to the tire. @apm was running the mill with the engine turned around and at the end of the mill with a long flat belt. That has plenty of traction but the engine would be in the way for my layout which is why I was trying this way.

I remember somebody posting a link in the past year or so to a PTO that has a reverse (normal tractor) rotation and 1100 and 540 rpm outputs, anyone remember that post? That might be another way that's cheaper than fabbing it up or driving all the way to Doug's.

moodnacreek · February 18, 2021, 06:29:45 PM

Maybe we can get Belben back on the road and have him fetch em on back :D. I see the extra belt wired in. [must be some oldtimer] Frozen logs in VA. ?

Don P · February 18, 2021, 07:08:22 PM

Mike, are you making any more runs up north?
Yeah, we went into the freezer the past couple of days and were icing overnight and all morning. The mill is in a cold spot which is nice in the summer. I heard a few trees come apart and we blinked power a couple of times but didn't lose it, happily. It started melting by about 2 so I wandered down and played till 5. If it warms up a little tomorrow I need to go pump out at work again and do a small pour so the masons can get back to work, it's supposed to warm back up next week. We've been in the mud season for a month :

.

scsmith42 · February 18, 2021, 08:05:44 PM

Don, back to your original question, as others mentioned you should be able to start the welder by jumping the starter from a DC welder. Their output is around 28 volts.

When we forget to turn off the kill switch on my big loader, I jump it off from a diesel welder on DC. Works fine.

SawyerTed · February 18, 2021, 08:23:07 PM

Quote from: moodnacreek on February 18, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Maybe we can get Belben back on the road and have him fetch em on back :D. I see the extra belt wired in. [must be some oldtimer] Frozen logs in VA. ?

I'm not but an hour or so south of Don P. I sawed frozen logs yesterday. They were on the north side of the hill where we still had ice and snow from last week. Not often but occasionally we get frozen logs.

Don P · February 18, 2021, 09:53:49 PM

Oh well, so much for wanting to snowbird it down towards Winston-Salem :D

I've looked all over my computer, and hit the search here, I was hoping I had saved a pic or link. I think I'm remembering that pto unit post was from Farm Show magazine and had an ad or description of the 2 speed tractor type pto.

mike_belben · February 18, 2021, 10:08:41 PM

I might make a trip in a few months but its always up in the air.

You can probably take a disc grinder to that tread to freshen it up a bit for more traction. They do make sticky tire compounds also. Jegs and summit have it but i think a burnout is needed.

If the engine goes to the other side with belt drive i think youll get traction and correct rotation. No?

Don P · February 18, 2021, 10:34:46 PM

Yes, that is the way it was driven previously with the engine at the outfeed. I'm bottled at that end but could move the dust blower, extend the roof a few feet and stick it at the infeed end.

moodnacreek · February 19, 2021, 08:18:59 AM

If you had just a little creosote, that might make the tire tacky, so I'm told. Besides the pullies, bearings, belts, shafts and couplers I have , also a no. 3 pto , drop box about 3 to 1 ratio. With one of theses you would just belt it up probably 1 to 1. It is promised to the owner of the old Bellsaw. However I can tell you that shaft drive to the mandrel is by far the best way. I have even seen it on big mills. With shaft drive there is no overhung load on the sawmill [belt pull] So the only real load on the mandrel is sawing in the log. And when you want to play with the lead , you are not fighting the belt pull.

Don P · February 19, 2021, 09:02:12 AM

Quote from: moodnacreek on February 19, 2021, 08:18:59 AMAnd when you want to play with the lead , you are not fighting the belt pull.

Boom!, that's why things started getting wonky yesterday. As I was playing with tension and pressure my cuts started going off.

I was looking at 3:1 pto gearboxes last night for tractor pto to drive hydraulic pumps. The idea looks right but I'm not sure if they are robust enough.

Hilltop366 · February 19, 2021, 09:23:39 AM

Turning the engine end to end and belt to jackshaft then shaft drive to where tire is, I think that works right in my head.

One possible issue I see is the engine cooling blower and air filter would be closer to the dust maker.

Tom King · February 19, 2021, 09:35:38 AM

Probably wouldn't be too reliable in Texas.

moodnacreek · February 19, 2021, 11:29:19 AM

Quote from: Tom King on February 19, 2021, 09:35:38 AM
Probably wouldn't be too reliable in Texas.

The set up I keep talking about is the one I had put together after trying several twisted belt hook ups. I had gone to an 8" belt at one point but it was not good. With the engine spun around the radiator is looking at you but I never picked up any trash in it. There are always different problems in different locations. When I lived in the lone star state I don't think the wind ever stopped blowing.

Hilltop366 · February 19, 2021, 11:55:57 AM

Quote from: Tom King on February 19, 2021, 09:35:38 AM
Probably wouldn't be too reliable in Texas.

Me thinks he was talking about grid power.

yellowrosefarm · February 19, 2021, 12:11:23 PM

Do they make an air powered starter for that Deutz? Be nice to have a compressor and tank near the mill anyway.
https://airstartersdirect.com/air-starters-vs-electric-starters/